Hail, Paisanos.
While the lean bread formula torpedo rolls from yesterday were excellent. I still need that holy Grail Burger bun.
Today I begin a quest for a soft tender flavorful hamburger/hotdog bun formula. My research yielded many formulas that include both butter and milk. My question for the hive mind is, would using low fat milk defeat the purpose of using milk, or are the milk solid proteins also a tenderizer? Am interested in comparing how my initial thoughts match up to the hive mind knowledge. One other unrelated thought. Since using only white flour is boring, and unimaginative, I wonder would Semolina remicinata negatively effect the tenderness? I do love the nutty flavor Semolina adds.
Photo of the lean bread torpedo rolls in use.
Possible solutions?
1. Go ahead and use the 2% Milk
2. Just substitute tap water
3. Bite the bullet and buy the whole milk
4. Use the 2% milk with a couple of one or two extra Tbs. of butter.
It makes sturdy but tender hamburger buns.
Paul
I was heading in the direction of Japanese milk bread. That being said we always brought home a few bags of Portuguese rolls when visiting Cape Cod. I will have a look.
2% will work fine and that’s what I use all the time. If you want a real rich tasting bun try adding cream. I’ve also used ricotta cheese which also makes a nice tender crumb. Potatoes are another favorite add in which will make a soft roll. I have a ton of roll formulas I’ve created over the years that are great for burgers and hot dogs. Cream cheese is another option that’s works.
Happy roll baking. P.S. I’m making some pretzel rolls today 😋
Ian, what properties do you think a good hot dog roll should have? The standard US store-bought roll is so soft and fragile that it breaks up and disintegrates before I can finish the dog. Yet a roll sturdy enough to work with a brat would be too much for a hot dog, I think.
TomP
In my opinion they should have a soft tender crumb but not be crumbly like some of the commercial hot dog buns. Most of the commercial buns are tasteless and as you’ve stated don’t hold up very well especially when grilled. As I like to use mostly fresh milled flour I’m going to do some experimenting soon using a soft white wheat combined with some Bread flour and some hard wheat with either a Tangzhong or maybe potatoes.
I think that both hot dog and hamburger rolls should be able to conform to the fillings when pressed into them. That helps to keep the fillings from falling out when you bite into the roll.
The bottom part of a hamburger bun also needs to resist getting soggy and disintegrating when it encounters some liquid. I've had burgers where the restaurant put a slice of tomato on the bottom (wrong place for it!) and the bottom fell apart right away. Putting mayo on the bottom helps but it still needs to hold up.
So sturdy and liquid resistant but soft and conformable. The crust, if not the entire roll, should have good flavor but not overpower the fillings with too much bread. The interior should not be crumbly. What else?
See my last post on my Purple Straw rolls. Those came out exactly like you describe and made perfect burger rolls.
I don't have Purple Straw wheat, and I don't mill anyway. I might try them using white sonoran to get an extensible, soft flour. I have a new sack of that. Then I will add some kind of whole wheat.
I just mixed up some pretzel roll dough up with a combo of Soft white, hard white and BF. Sonora will be perfect in your mix.
Regarding cream. My first bake included both whole milk and cream at the very beginning of the mix. Today's bake, I guess I should call it version two, had only whole milk. I do not see all that much better softness using the cream. I did notice a slightly stickier dough. Both versions are excellent, light and sturdy. ( Fyi Tom.) This was a truly easy yet fun and rewarding exercise. Phase two will be to convert to natural yeast. That being said, it is very handy to have a bun formula that can be done in a few hours; ready for dinner on short notice. Ricotta is an interesting option I had not considered. Potato 🥔 I had considered, maybe when I stock up on hamburger rolls? Thinking out loud, considering my results without cream, I think cream/ cheese is overkill. Whole milk does a fine job. You are so right so many options. I guess I need to test out our staple 2% also?
Best regards,
Will F.
You would be surprised of how it affects the dough and it’s definitely not overkill. Try this one https://mookielovesbread.com/2014/06/13/hamburger-hot-dog-onion-parmesan-cream-cheese-buns/
I made these a while ago but I remember they were really good.
I have also spent time looking for the holy grail of burger buns. I settled on a formula, I don't remember where it came from - possibly from this site. It starts with a sponge, has fresh milled white whole wheat -for the same reason as you, plain white flour was a bit boring, a little sugar, some butter and milk powder. That solves the run to the store for milk dilemma when I decide to make buns on the spur of the moment being a long way from a grocery and having no milk on hand.
Happy to share if interested.
Yes, please share. Also, what makes these especially good as hamburger buns, and would you add anything to the list of desirable attributes that I posted a few comments up in this thread?
TomP
These are firm and tender, but not soft. If that makes sense. The crust is also soft. I can't say they conform to the burger or hot dog, but definitely stand up to the filling. And they are not too 'bready'. I find brioche buns to have too much bread to filling ratio (as my granddaughter would say), which I think is a negative attribute. I've made them anywhere fro 90 to 125 gr, depending on use, but 100 gr works pretty well for a standard size hamburger (if there is such a thing). I generally make 32 to a batch, slice them, and then freeze. We can pull 2 out of the freezer and they thaw while toasting. I've never tried to make them hot dog shape.
Sponge
Flour 100%
Water 62%
Instant Yeast .1%
Mix and ferment 12-16 hours, refrigerate if more time is necessary
Final
Flour 85%
White Whole Wheat 15% (fresh milled, but purchased whole wheat would work)
Flour Total 100%.
Water 63.33%
Salt 2.67%
Instant Yeast 1.01%
Sponge 54.03% (all of the sponge)
Sugar 5.07%
Butter 10.13%
Milk Powder 5.07%
Mix all in until dough is developed, good window can be pulled. Ferment 45 minutes to an hour. If not fully developed in the mixer add 2 to 3 stretch and folds. Divide, preshape to light rounds, rest 20-30 minutes. Shape and proof 1 1/2 to 2 hours (recommended at 80 degrees, so if cooler will take longer). After shaping dip in topping before placing on parchment lined sheet pan. Topping doesn't follow normal baking percentages and doesn't increase well as it becomes pretty watery so add water to desired thickness. Percentages are percent from total amount needed. For a batch of 32. generally make about 400 gr topping.
Dehydrated onions 20.60%
Vegetable oil 7.8%
Salt 1.6%
Water 70% - but be careful
Bake at 400F for 15-20 minutes.
If anyone tries these, I'd love to her what they think
Janice
Thanks, Janice.
Maurizio Leo has a great recipe using starter, potato, milk and a smidge of sugar. The Recipe is on The Fresh Loaf - his site on You Tube.
Patsy
The Perfect Loaf Buns
Small but important correction. Maurizio's site is called "The Perfect Loaf."