Is it possible I'm overworking my dough
Hello,
after a good run of form my last two batches of bread have been a bit flat.
I was wondering if I'm overworking the dough
70% hydration. 8:1 starter ratio.
I've been chucking it in the mixer and leaving it for a good 20 minutes on 2. Trying to develop the strength.
Then I do four sets of stretches over about two hours. The stretches are very long. I lift one end of the dough and the other end is stuck to the bowl and I can lift and stretch a good half meter. I do that 4 times at 90 degree angles. And I do that four times over about two hours before leaving until my aliquot jar has doubled in size.
I then pre shape, leave, then shape. Whilst I don't detect any real breakdown here, the dough is definitely a little lax. Seems to have lost all the structure that's there after the first couple of stretches and even the shaping.
I might have to go back to 65% hydration cos I'm losing confidence a little. Am I overworking the dough in some way? Am I stretching the dough too high from the bowl? Should I just calm down a bit all round?!
Or is there no such thing as overworking the dough as long as you're getting the proving time right?
Any thoughts gratefully received.
There are so many variables in bread making (think flour type, temperature, etc.) and you don’t provide many details of your process. But in general, 20 min. in a planetary mixer seems very long for a small batch. I usually mix by hand, but If I use a mixer I rarely exceed 10 min. Full gluten development is not necessary or desirable if you plan to follow with stretch and folds. In addition, long stretches are not necessarily what you want as it may render the gluten matrix thin enough to allow the fermentation gasses to escape, which could cause a flat loaf. My rule of thumb is to stretch the dough just enough to fold over itself in the bowl, if that is where you perform them. I would suggest searching YouTube for some videos on stretching - there are many out there.
-Brad
Thank you for the insight on the long stretches. It makes sense except I'm bought to mind of the lamination process which literally spreads the dough out in a very fine layer. I wonder why that works but my long stretches don't. Wouldn't the gasses escape completely from that? Although I wonder if the process of folding it all back together re-traps some air. Dunno, just guessing.
I will cut back on the folds and the mixer and see if that helps. thank you
I don''t think that loss of gas would be a problem. The dough will re-fill once it is back in a compact mass.
70% hydration is quite high, and not all types of flour can handle that. Try lowering it to 65% and see how the texture of the dough changes.
Absolutely, that is what I will do tonight, thank you for your thoughts.
Curious to hear your results!
I'm also in a hydration quest - using BRM APF, I can produce really soft bread, I use about 68-70% hydration. Loaf height is not bad but not quite what I want either. I am mucking with hydration 1% at a time to see if I can get more height:)
Ha, good luck, I'm sure we'll both get there. Eventually 😂
What you write sounds to me like a property of the flour. It seems unusually extensible, and perhaps it's not able to hold up well over the time involved. You didn't say anything about the flour, not even if it's white, whole wheat, or what, so it's hard to say more. We don't even know if it's a US, UK, Italian flour or what. Flour properties, especially from smaller suppliers, can vary depending on the growing season's weather, etc.
The first thing to try in a case like this, or at least it helped me when I had a problem flour, is to lower the hydration, which you have already suggested. My problem flour made good bread between 58 and 62% hydration but was a disaster above 65%.
TomP
Very interesting.
I guess I don't mention it because I make the mistake of thinking that all flours are much of a muchness.
I use a 'very strong' white bread flour from Sainsbury's. But frankly, I often use whatever is on offer and, from your answer, I'm thinking that may be a little gung ho.
I often add 10-20% rye flour (white or dark depending on what comes to hand) and when that happens I get a much stiffer dough that doesn't actually stretch far at all which always worries me because I'm wanting lots of nice holes.
I always thought the extendible nature of the flour meant it was very well developed. But I think you're saying it may not pay in the long run.
I hear you and will pay some attention to the flour. More practice tonight!!
Best to find a bread flour you like and stick with it for a while so you get used to it in terms of how much water, how much mixing, etc.
In the UK, it is not normally neccessary to always use "very strong flour" (our terrible flour typing system!); sometimes known as Canadian flour or what the Italians call Manitoba flour.
I would just use a good bread flour. Having said that, it's worth having some very strong in stock to add if using a lot of weak or wholegrain flour.
Lance
I think that's what I'm going to have to do. Never really considered the flour, which is stupid!
Find one, stick to it, experiment with hydration etc. That's what I'll do!
The gluten formed in bread making is minimal. Exactly how much is used needs to be tested to determine. I should note I did not read all this. Enjoy!