Technical query - breadmaker size setting
I am using a Panasonic breadmaker and wonder if anyone can tell me with certainty how the size settings affect what each programme does?
When you select a programme it will take (say) three hours regardless of whether you select small, medium or large; in other words the overall time taken is the same. However, the quoted times for knead and rise are shown as varying - is this a clue? Is it the case that as you increase the size setting it extends the knead and rise times? Not sure how that would work in terms of the rise. I had also wondered if the size settings affected the temperature at certain points but again this is just theory.
Panasonic are not big when it comes to customer contact and when I asked the question on Amazon people responded by explaining how you should use the size setting which is not what I had asked.
I could run the same programme three times on the three size settings, monitoring when the different procedures within the programme change but that doesn't completely appeal. I therefore thought it was worth asking here in case some techie knows the answer.
Do the work to find out exactly what the timings are - then let us know. Enjoy!
Your spelling of "programme" suggests you're not in the USA, but here, Panasonic support is directly accessible via their website via live chat. I find it to be quite good; used it yesterday (for an oven), had an agent within a few minutes, and all my questions were answered.
Panasonic BM program timings are poorly documented, quite possibly because they vary significantly with ambient temperature. Panasonic micromanages this factor much more intensely than other manufacturers. As you noted, the only hint of it in their user manuals is the range of times given for various steps in the program. But it is documented more precisely in some of their earlier service manuals.
For example, here's their process map for the Whole Wheat Bake program for the SD-YD205.
Depending on the tmperature in the oven chamber, one of three different schedules is adopted at the beginning of the cycle (the "process judgement" point). In each one, knead time is variable (perhaps for loaf size?), and the length of the rise segments varies significantly.
Later models do this even more intensely. Their current crop monitor both ambient AND internal temps and make program adjustments based on them.
I encountered this a couple days ago, when I put one of their BM's out on the porch mid-morning to avoid heating up the kitchen. It was mid-upper 80's out there. The machine chose the high-temp process and moved more than an hour of rising time into the rest period! Not at all what I had in mind...
This may be more info than you were asking for, but it gives you a sense of what's at play. From now on, I will avoid using my Panasonic machines at ambient temps above 75ºF or thereabouts. That's the only way to guarantee they will use the "normal" low-temp process.
Would the times be the same for us sandworlocks?
I'm so sorry... I'll let myself out.
Reserve the heat!
😂😂😂
Jokes aside, that table/illustration from an old manual is an amazing find, and the commentary is excellent as well.
Especially considering it only happens at the end of a programmed delayed start. Maybe it puts on a sweater for the last 30 minutes of the delay! :)
Thanks for your kind words. I know of no other bread machine maker that produced actual service manuals for their products. And really good ones, too. You can still buy many parts from Panasonic for these machines from the mid-late 90's. Unlike what is coming from the Chinese companies these days, they were built to be serviced and maintained.
Thanks Precaud - fascinating and gives me a "sense of what's at play".
On a point of information, I have tried the webchat here (UK) and out of three attempts got through once and on that occasion could not get an answer. Ho hum. I have been experimenting for 18 months now, love the machine and am having great fun, it is just this one aspect I have never found a simple answer to ... looking at the table you post I suspect there isn't a simple answer. I will carry on experimenting.I think you nailed it in your original post. For larger loaves, they steal a little time from the first rise and give it to the knead time. Other than that, the cycles are the same. Some other BM's do the same thing (ex: TR2200C). They may also increase the baking temp a bit - it would make sense - but you'd have to find that out on your own.
Have fun experimenting! Which machine do you have?
(an interesting aside - Panasonic currently offers 5 different models in the UK. And only 1 in the USA... And that one is intentionally crippled... they removed all of the whole grain / whole wheat programs from the USA model. What are they thinking?)
We have the SD-B2510. Making bread by hand was getting a bit too much for me and this has been a gem. I knew nothing about BMs but this entry-level Panasonic seemed popular so thought I would give it a shot. I have made about 150 loaves and thus far it hasn't disappointed. Fresh Loaf is great - always someone willing to help. Thanks again.
Hi,
What a nice tall rise and crust!
Are those bubbles on the top?
I would love to have your recipe!
Thanks for the post and here it is ...
1 teaspoon quick yeast
250g wholemeal bread flour
250g white bread flour
365ml water generally at 21º
1 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon sugar
1 tablespoon oil
The ingredients are listed in the order that Panasonic say to add them. I am very precise about measurements and always use the same set of measuring spoons. I use their "menu 6" which is 3 hours - the loaf comes out very balanced and nicely brown (this particular menu offers no adjustment for browning). Overall it makes a good loaf although I feel it would benefit from a longer programme; unfortunately, when I used the 5 hour programme the loaf height went boom - hence the reason for starting this thread.
Thanks again.
I like the simplicity of your recipe and it is 50% ww too. I have zojirushi and will experiment with it.
Your hydration is almost exactly what I would have done: 66% for bread flour and 80% for whole wheat. That averages to 73% for 50-50 loaves. Seeing your sides makes me want to use a smooth sided pan too.
Thank you for sharing your recipe!!