Help! 100% Fresh milled White Sonora Wheat Tortillas
I'm trying to learn how to make 100% whole wheat tortillas using freshly milled White Sonora Wheat flour from my Nutrimill. I used this recipe that I found on the whole grain connection.
500g ground Sonora wheat flour (about 3 cups)
42g olive oil (3 Tbs)
275g of warm water (155 degrees F)
7g of salt (dissolved in the water)
Rub the oil into the flour. (I used a food processor). Add the warm salty water, just enough to make a firm dough, which can be pressed into a ball. Stored covered for 3 to 24 hours. Form small balls and press into flat rounds, rolling out until very thin. Cook on a hot cast iron pan.
The recipe doesn't call for any kneading of the dough. I was able to work with it ok, but when rolling out, the edges were very raggedy and would rip and tear very easily. The flavor was awesome but if I overcooked the tortilla at all the texture became very cracker-y. Any tips for my raggedy edges and crackeriness? Should I add more water, or do any kneading?
Welcome back to TFL.
Sounds like two things:
1. Get the thickness uniform from center to edge. I actually use a tapered rolling pin (from an Indian grocery store) and slightly rotate the tortilla on the working surface with each roll of the pin, adjusting where I roll it based on where the tortilla looks thickest.
My dough is kind of moist, so when I flatten the dough ball by hand, into a disc, i use about 1/4 tsp white store-bought flour to coat each side (1/2 tsp total per tortilla) of the disc before using the rolling pin.
2. Get your pan or griddle to juuuuust the right temp. Too low, and the tortilla's inside dries out by the time you get leopard spots. Too high, and you get burned spots on the surface before the inside is done.
The juuust right temp depends on your formula, your tortilla thickness, your stove and your griddle/pan. Experiment, trial and error, and keep notes.
Cast iron takes a long time to come up to temp. I needed setting 4 (out of 10) I thought, but by the 2nd tortilla, setting 3 was good. So really, i need setting 3, but a longer warm up. I use a timer to give it 1 min at 7, 1 min at 5, 1 min at 4, and 1 min at 3 and then I'm good to go.
Here's a great video with a recipe close to yours:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy3VZcRJkl4
I then put my tortillas in a round lidded plastic box, and let the moisture equalize. The inside is cooked but still moist. The outer layer is semi dry, but not cracker-like. The mositure migrates outward and softens the surface while resting, and there is condensation in the tortilla box when they are ready to eat.
Thanks for your reply! I appreciate the video, but since they are working with all purpose flour the gluten is very different from what I'm dealing with and the texture of the dough is very different. Sonora wheat is very delicate with a relatively weak gluten. I've heard some people say that kneading can create some stretch in Sonora and I've heard others say it's so delicate that it's better not to work the dough. I'm looking for tips specifically for Sonora wheat in terms of hydration level and kneading.
I haven't used sonora white, but I've made great tortillas with red fife, spelt and corn masa. The idea is the same for all of them. You use warm water to slightly gelatinize the starch, you rest the dough so the flour absorbs the water well, the moisture makes steam that splits the tortilla while the griddle crusts the outside.
-Sumi
That's a super helpful explanation. The only reason I brought up gluten is because I see a lot of people knead their dough ball into a nice supple slightly stretchy dough before resting and rolling out and I've never gotten my sonora dough to feel supple like that. I have heard sonora compared to spelt before. I let my dough rest overnight in the fridge to make sure it had plenty of time to absorb all the liquid and then let it come to room temperature before trying to roll and cook. I used the double flip method of cooking you suggested and I did get some nice bubbles in the dough. I think I will add some more water next time to try for a softer dough.
Your burnt flaky edges are not about gluten. That's about the edge being too thin (tapering off instead of uniform), and your griddle too hot.
My experience matches Sumi's.
I agree with Dave's tips. But I think the video he posted shows a poor version of the cooking process. You will never get proper puffing with that process. Chetna's video (that I posted later in this thread) is way better on the cooking part of the process.
I appreciate both of your help, not trying to be difficult I just think my issue isn't coming across in my explanations. Let me try to explain better. My edges weren't burnt or crackery. I said if I overcooked a tortilla slightly the entire tortilla became crackery. As I was pushing on the rolling pin to roll out the dough, the dough would tear pretty dramatically at the edges. When I've rolled out flour tortillas before there was a enough stretch in the dough to prevent tearing. Here are some pictures of what I mean. My dough looked jagged like this:
But when I've used higher gluten strength flours my edges looked more like this:
That first pic looks like too much oil and not enough water.
Home-milled flour might need this: add water first. Let it hydrate/rest 20 to 30 min. Then add oil, but less. Maybe only 2 to 4% (baker's %) oil.
Fresh milled flour has oil from the grain already in it.
This makes so much sense!! Thank you for your help!!!!
You aren't being difficult at all. Text-based communication is very limiting.
Clearly the dough is too dry. Add enough water to make a supple dough, just dust the dough ball when rolling out to keep it from sticking. You can dust it multiple times while rolling it out - i just set a little pile of flour on the counter next to where I'm working. Different flours need different amounts of water to produce dough of the right suppleness. And, agree with Dave that the oil tends to prevent flour from absorbing water as well (as well as reducing whatever gluten dev happens during mixing). I mostly use no oil at all, actually.
Add about 25 g more water to the entire batch, mix, wait 15 min. Roll out a blob, if still dry add in 25 more gr to the batch. Keep going until it rolls out nicely. Write down the modified recipe.
This is exactly the help I needed!! Thank you so much!!!
Not to beat a dead horse, but I have some whole rye flour around and did a demo with it-
Here is the dough- 100 gr of flour, 60 gr water, 2 gr salt, soft and sticky:
53191842-8CF4-402E-85FF-71B20CC85914.jpeg
After a 20 min rest, balls can be formed without sticking to hands
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The tortilla is ready to flip when small bubbles apear and some areas look translucent
DBB5BC70-2E6C-4E7A-ACB2-184452731046.jpeg
8C1DC0E6-D6F8-4E64-9A2F-029CD045EE32.jpeg
Not a dead horse at all - I seriously appreciate you sharing your knowledge. This is SO HELPFUL!!!
Steffanie-
It sounds like your dough may be a bit dry and/or you didn't rest the dough before rolling. I haven't used Sonora White flour, but I have made lots of tortillas (which I call roti, because of my indian heritage ;-)). The dough should be soft, combined well and rested for at least 20 min before rolling out. If it's a bit moist, you can dust it with flour while you roll out to prevent sticking. The key to cooking them perfectly (and getting them to puff up and be pliant yet fully cooked) is to 1) roll out thin and uniform, but not 'see through' thin, 2) moderately hot pan, 3) Flip them over in this sequence - a) cook first side only until it's dry enough to flip b) cook second side until it has brown spots in several places, flip back to first side c) gently press it as it puffs up.
This video shows a good demo of this method of cooking them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkePsetNqPs
I'm from Sonora, we eat a lot of flour tortillas here, i can give you a couple suggestions:
- DO NOT use olive oil, use any neutral flavored vegetable oil, and it would be better if you use shortening instead of oil.
- The amount of oil in the recipe is not right, as a rule of thumb here they use around 250 gr of shortening/oil per kilogram of flour, yes, tortillas are supposed to be kinda oily instead of bread like. Even the big tortillas used for burros which use less shortening still use 125 gr per kilo but those kind of tortillas tend to become brittle when cooled. When my mom was teaching me how to make tortillas she used to tell me you should add oil or shortening until you can take flour with your hand, press it, and it would keep its shape.
- water should be a little more than warm, and as some people have mentioned whole wheat flour takes way more water than all purpose flour, you should keep adding water until the dough is a sticky.
- You should rest your dough several times, i usually mix everything and knead for a while, then i would let the dough rest for around 30 min, then i would take the dough and divide it into small balls, and then i let them rest again while i prepare the griddle and everything i need.
- The griddle should be on medium-high heat, a cold griddle would produce hard and brittle tortillas.
everything else i was about to say you already mentioned it in the comments so i guess you already know how to cook the tortillas.
I have never made 100% whole wheat tortillas (just up to 50%), but my mom used to make them, they tend to be thicker, chewer and a little more tough than tortillas made with regular all purpose flour.
Good luck with your tortillas!
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I just made tortillas yesterday. When using fresh flour you have to use intuition, you can't rely on recipes, or even what's worked before. The humidity of the day in question could affect the recipe.
I personally use about freshly milled hard red wheat, which I like more than hard white wheat for tortillas.
Kneading is a must, in my opinion, about 2-4 minutes does it just fine. When it comes time to roll them if you haven't kneaded sufficiently, the dough is extremely unpredictable and quickly gets out of hand. Often there is such little gluten structure it rolls out way too easily with no elasticity. It's also more fragile, and when inserted into the tortilla warmer/steamer does not become as pliable.
The use of hot water is also a must.
Yesterday's tortillas were perfect. I used half freshly milled hard red wheat, half Central Milling all-purpose, and safflower oil, though most people do prefer lard for tradition's sake and flavor, but I am currently vegan. Added my oil, salt and hot water, and kneaded for 4 minutes, weighed, and set aside for 2 hours. The dough was very strong and pliable, took rolling well into perfect circles, and fried up well.
You need to get the pan scorching hot so that within 1 minute there are some burn marks on the bottom, and lastly the tortilla warmer is a must because it subsequently steams them and makes them pliable with their own steam.
If the pan is not hot enough you will often leave the tortillas on for way too long, just remember how thin they are, they're done quickly, which is why if you want those delicious dark spots you need the pan hot.
No problem making them with 100% freshly milled wheat but again, kneading, I often sift out the largest particles of bran. I have made 100% freshly milled a number of times, not yet with kneading for 5 minutes, which I will try very soon.
I love tortillas and they're a perfect freshly milled item.