Levain vs starter
Hi everyone. I have a query I would like some advice / opinions on.
When I see recipes that require a levain build before added to final dough I sometimes question if this is really necessary. This is mostly when the levain is at a 100% hydration rate including a 100% hydration starter.
My question is: is it really necessary to build a levain which is at 100% hydration when you already have a starter (which you have enough quantity of) at the same hydration level.
For example :
Levain =
40g ap flour
40g water
20g 100% hydration starter
Could you not just use 100g of mature freshly fed 100% starter??
My main thought for reasons is in the instance that you only have a very small starter and you don't have enough quantity to use as the only leavening agent in a starter -straight to dough- recipe.
I understand other reasons for a levain include adding flavour of different grains to the dough( ie rye/ spelt/ ww) but surely you can just add these grains to the flours in the final dough.
Look forward to hearing your opinions and answers!
Many thanks,
J
A levain build generally should be more active (have more yeast population) than starter unless the starter has been very well maintained and recently fed and allowed to double right before using.
Rye is a different story and needs the acids of rye sours to help with high percentage rye doughs. I believe it helps maintain the integrity of the flour so it doesn't dissolve into an enzymatic puddle. Other rye experts can jump in for that.
For instance, if you use 100 gm of 100% rye starter, you'll have 50 gm of rye in your dough. But if you build a levain, you can control the amount of rye according to how much starter you put into it. This will let you make, as a simple example, a nearly all-white loaf without having a white starter.
Thanks for your information.
What I am confused about is as you say if you wanted a rye supported white sourdough could you not just use a small amount of rye in the final dough flours rather than taking the added 5 -12 hour process building a rye levain. Because unless i am mistaken this too is a successefull way of controllong the amount of rye ( or any other grains)Especially if you already have a mature active white starter (in my instance)
Many thanks for your advice,
J
If I use say 10 gm of my 100% rye starter to build a levain, I can have as little as 5 gm of rye flour in my final dough.
If I want to skip making a levain and still only have the same 5 gm of rye, I have to make the final dough using just 10 gm of starter. I suppose this would work, just with the bulk ferment taking a long time. I'm unfamiliar with using so little starter. So, I'd rather go with making a levain first and then the final dough since I do have a sense of how long each step will take.
If you feed your starter regularly and you have enough for your recipe, you can do exactly as you described. I found I was throwing out huge amounts of flour because I don't bake every day so I went to the no fuss, no muss starter that is kept in the fridge and do builds from that.
Unless I am misunderstanding some of what you say and ask, allow me to add this. Levains can be virtually any hydration, although we tend to see 100% more frequently than others.
The breads that I bake use levains anywhere from 60% to 125% hydration. And I suppose that there are other hydration levels both lower and higher which may be used.
If you use the 100% as only an example of a hydration percentage, then allow what I wrote above to be general informational for others who may not know that.
My thought is that doing a 1, 2 or 3 stage build as input to your final dough ingredients from (ex.) a 100% starter is to ensure that you have a robust levain to incorporate.
rye starter in the fridge is because I got tired of the waste, cost and maintenance of a white counter starter. I hated being chained to a starter on the counter. I would much rather have no maintenance for 24 weeks at a time, no waste, no discard and free to do what ever I want without having to mess with or worry about a starter. Building a levain from a small amount of starter for each bake ensures that when the levain hits the mix, it is at its peak and ready to do the job, I can vary the flours, time and temperatures for the stages and create any levain I need for each particular bake.
I only bake once a week and this fits my needs perfectly. If I baked 3 times a week I wouldn't even keep a starter - I would just use the old dough method instead. If I baked twice a week I would do something different still - but all methods would have no maintenance or waste associated with them. Plus white starters are the least desirabke for the kinds and styles of breads I like t make and eat.
No Muss No Fuss StarterThanks for the reply!
This is all very interesting and I can understand the need for a levain in your case D.
As I bake 2 -3 times a week I refresh my white starter once at the beginning of the week (which is what incurrs the wastage) and then after using what I need in my doughs on a bi-daily basis. As I keep my starter refrigerated there is no need to feed again between these bakes.
and they don't all require making a levain for each bake. In my case, I usually bake twice a week and generally use 100 or 120 gm of my 100% starter per bake. I keep 150 gm and rebuild to that 150 gm each time, which works out to either a 1:1:1 or 1:2:2 feeding. The fed starter gets about 2-3 hours on the counter - not long enough to peak - then goes back in the fridge.
That's exactly what I do! Just re- build to the original starter weight
that I didn't explicitly say before is that the ratio of usage to kept starter matters. The reason I keep 150 gm is because I use either 100 or 120 gm for most of my bakes. If I kept a larger amount, say 300 gm as an example, rebuilding to 300 after using 100 or 120 wouldn't represent a proper feeding.
When I finally realized that I could create a whole new batch of leaven, or culture or mother or chef or whatever name we call our starter by, from the scrapings in my container I experienced a great sense of freedom. I was able to finally fully adopt Dab's starter regime. If I forget it for weeks I can always rebuild a more mellow leaven with just a few grams. If I want a more pronounced sour I use a larger amount of what's in the fridge for the build.
So in answer to your question, in my opinion it is not necessary. However if you are following someone like Forkish or Robertson they are producing a consistent and specific flavour profile. One has to realize that whatever age and condition your starter is will dictate the flavour profile in your own bake and possibly how robust a rise you get.