Jason's Quick Coccodrillo Ciabatta Bread

damn - that's some of the prettiest darn bread I've seen in a long while!

Looks like this dough would make great pizza.  When you have the dough up in the air to stretch and fold it prior to baking, stretch it into a rough  pizza shape, put it onto parchment, slap on the toppings and go. I use my ciabatta recipe for pizza all the time and it is terrific. You might want to crank up the oven as high as it will go for pizza though.

Paul Kobulnicky

Baking in Ohio

The crumb was Magnificent! Mine didn't get nearly as brown as yours. Any ideas regarding that? I must admit I've never worked with such gloppy wet dough but now I "get it" and it really does make the crumb we're all looking for in this type of bread. Have you tried adapting this recipe to sour dough?

Trish in Omaha

Wow, I see someone made a wonderful, airy ciabatta with white spelt flour. I'll have to try that when my mom comes to visit.

Hi there--from a new member of the Fresh Loaf!  I'll post an introduction on the appropriate board, but I had to first post my reaction to this formula.  It's amazing!  I just took my first batch out of the oven this afternoon.  Beautiful browned loaves, my first try at ciabatta.  I used KAF bread flour, kosher salt and SAF instant yeast.  I mixed it with my Kitchen Aid for 20 minutes after the 10-minute rest, which was enough to achieve the climbing dough as described.  I placed the dough in a Rubbermaid canister and measured it along the side so I could be sure it tripled, which was going to be a final rise height of 6" in my container.  I set a timer for 2.5 hours and was shocked to see it had gotten to 7 " in an hour and a half!  That was just at normal room temp in my kitchen (this is the South, but still, we have the AC on).

I baked the loaves, on parchment and on my stone, in two batches at 500 in my regular old electric oven.  I did use a steam pan and three consecutive sprays from a mister as PR advocates in the BBA.  It took 20 minutes to get the nice, reddish-brown color that I was looking for.  And, wow, is all I can say.  For a pretty short fermentation, this bread delivers fantastic flavor.  And the crumb is so moist!

This was my first time working with such a slack dough (with the exception of Pain a l'Ancienne).  I'm no whiz at math, but am I correct in figuring that this formula is at 95% hydration?  The huge holes in the crumb are unbelievable.  And LilDice is right--the oven spring is nothing short of an athletic feat.

I'm glad I found this board, and hope to meet new friends AND find new bread-baking frontiers. =)

Once again I have to say I love this bread. Now I've made it twice--the first three loaves got eaten so fast (one went to a neighbor) and I still wanted more! But now I have two loaves in the freezer for future enjoyment.

Here's the first loaf I cut into:

And here's my second batch, first loaf:

The second batch had way more oven spring, though I did nothing differently (except realize I didn't have to flour the dough as heavily as I did on the second rise the first time). Bread is so funny that way--consistency is hard to achieve. Or it is for me, at least.

Here's one more shot of these pretty (albeit oddly shaped) loaves.

This will be a new staple bread in my house!

without an electric mixer?

I don't have one that can handle dough and since finding the stretch and fold method, I actually put the need for one on the low priority list.

Can I just stir briskly for about 3 minutes, then rest it for about 15-30 minutes then come back and stir again for about 3 minutes? Doing this for about 4 stirs and get the same type of gluten development, do you think?

Have you ever tried making this by hand? I have an awesome spatula that is my favorite over the years that is a one piece huge job that's extra sturdy and can withstand the elasticity of wet dough.

Thanks!

I can't vouch for it myself, but you could try making it in a food processor, if you have one.  I know PR says in the BBA that you can make his ciabatta formula in the food processor.  I actually am supposed to try that sometime for a friend of mine, who has a food processor but not a mixer.  When I do, I'll post my results here.

Made this as soon as I read the recipe and it was great!!.  I did not have a chance to take any pics as I ate it too fast it was gone before I could get my camera out.  This was the moast bubbly cibatta I have ever made.  The crumb was very soft and the crust was alot softer than I expected.  The only problem I had was shaping as this was a very wet dough.  I highly doubt that this dough could be made by hand as it took me almost 25 minutes in my KA to develop the gluten enough to make this a workable dough.

Brought up with chickens  in the back yard in my youth, I was surprised at the name of this bread. In Italian, it is the sound made by a rooster!!!  I need to make this recipe.  Talk about my roots.  OMG way to old!

Well I did it! I made this bread by hand and it was very easy! Here's the link to my blog with pictures. Feel free to make comments there. I just didn't want to take over lildice's thread with it!

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/3088/bluezebras-baking-banter#comment-14086

Has anyone tried this in another mixer, such as a DLX or a Bosch Universal? Everytime I come to this site I look at this particular thread and really want to try my hand at this but wanted to ask if anyone had used either of these mixers and what procedure they used with them to get the same result. I think this would make a grand grilled sandwich..............I can almost taste it just looking at these pictures. The weather here in the deep south so I am looking forward to being able to resume my bread baking trials.............no central air in this house so not much gets baked when the temps are well over 90 and the humidity is well over that!

I thought ciabatta meant slipper , because of its shape...

I agree with slipper for the meaning of ciabatta, as does my Italian dictionary.

 Anyway has anyone come up with a flour/ water ratio that isn't so wet?  If so did it effect the crumb?

I made this today, it turned-out great, thanks for the great recipe...I put the loaves on parchment paper, as suggested, it made the unruly dough easier to work with...I'm wondering if parchment paper gives off bad fumes, while baking...anyone know? Thanks, Beth

Nice looking loaves! Yes, it is a great and fast recipe. I like it because you can make it in a day. Sort of a "quckie" bread. I've also added my sourdough discard to the mix and have had nice results.

I'm a long time lurker, first time poster.  This is such a great recipe that I had to comment.  I've made this 2 weekends in a row and my family and friends devour it.  I'm making it at 90% hydration.  I'm also holding the salt out until after the 10 minute rest to give the yeast a head start.  Fantastic, predictable results.

Glad it turned out, Tommy. Your measurements might have been off since you didn't scale the ingredients.  It makes a difference:

I measured out two cups of water using a liquid measuring container and placed the water in a container on my scale.  Came to 467g.

I then used a cup intended for dry ingredients, filled it with water twice, and measured the weight:  417g.

A cup of unbleached bread flour weighs 4.5 ounces, or 127.58 grams (per the calculator)

You noted you used 4.5 cups of flour.  127.58 times 4.5 equals 574.11g.

Flour is especially problematic when using a measuring cup because your cup of flour could weigh much more than mine, depending on how each of us fills that cup with flour.

Not knowing what type of measuring cups you used, or how you loaded your flour into the cup, Tommy, it's hard to say whether you had too much flour or too little water.  Am guessing the answer is both, since you said the dough was not wet.  I've made this ciabatta many times and it is like pancake batter at the start of the mix.

The gram measurement was listed because using weight instead of volume is accurate. The only way you can be certain you have 500 grams of flour and 475 grams of water is to weigh it.  

The first bread book I purchased didn't use volume measurements, so I had to buy a scale if I wanted to bake any of the breads.  I discovered that aside from the accuracy, weighing the ingredients is faster and I never wind up with spilled flour on the counter.  

You can get a good scale with a tare function that measures in ounces, grams, or pounds for less than $30. 

Hey Kevin,

Peter Reinhart has a pre-ferment recipe in his book "bread bakers apprentice."  It starts with a "poolish", which is nothing more than a wet-mixed dough.  You make the poolish the day before you want to bake.  Here's a thumb-nail sketch:

Poolish

1. 2.5 cups flour
2. 1.5 cups water
3. 1/4 tsp yeast

Mix together and let rise overnight in fridge.

Dough

1. All the poolish
2. 3 cups flour
3. 1 3/4 tsp salt
4. 1.5 tsp instant yeast
5. 6 tbs up to 3/4 cup flour

You can use this recipe with the instructions above.  I actually am in the proofing stage right now for some Cibatta following this recipe, so I'll post some pics and comments once it's done.

Hope that helps!

I made this bread today.  It was easier, faster and MUCH better than than the other ciabatta recipe I've tried (Shirley Corriher's).

I'd give the crust, appearance and flavor 5 out of 5.

The crumb was only 3 out of 5 for me, I'm not sure why I didn't get as many beautiful bubbles as everyone else.  I mixed for 30 min on highest speed on my DLX with the roller.  It never crawled, it just started to pull away from the the center of the bowl after 25 minutes.  I figured the gluten was developed since I could stretch an 18" long strand from the bowl.  Did I overdo it?  It tripled in about 2 hours.  My kitchen is on the chilly side and I noticed the final proof on the counter really didn't do much.

This recipe is incredibly gratifying for a novice baker.

eta - I weighed my ingredients

They're in the oven now and are looking good. I was a bit unclear on one thing:

When you say to cut the dough into pieces and let it rise, I now realize that I should be cutting it into a long rectangular shape, correct? Otherwise, after I let it rise for 45 minutes, shaping will knock out a lot of the rise that I've achieved...

chrisinweare - I don't think you need to cut it into long rectangles because you will stretch the dough into the oblong when you shape it.  

norsearcher - I think roasted garlic might work really well - the bread doesn't bake for so long that it would burn the garlic.  Other than that, I'm not sure, it seems like whole cloves of garlic might just sink down since the dough is so slack???  Just try it!  :-)

I didn't quite get the air bubbles I was looking for.. I think I put in too much flower. However, the taste of the bread was delish. My husband ate almost the whole batch and made me promise to make it again. Thank you!

I make this bread a lot at home. Last night we tried it at my daughter's house, where there's no mixer and no scale. We mixed it up until the dough looked right then beat it in the bowl for while. Then we put it out on a clean counter and used the French slap and fold kneading method for a long time. The dough really came together! We then put it in an oiled bowl and turned it over and followed the directions for kneading.

It came out great, and we all had a great time doing the slap and fold kneading. We scraped the dough off the low cabinets when we were finished...

I do have one question. I used Giusto's flour, which I had read about on this site, and we were at sea level. I usually bake with KAF and at 7000 ft. I think I didn't let it rise quite enough because I didn't get the huge holes I usually do. But wonder about the lack of crispness in the crust. I steamed (something I normally don't do), but I was baking on a cookie sheet, so I thought I was compensating. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!

A decent looking ciabatta that can be made in several hours?  I will be trying this tomorrow.  I love gloopy doughs!LOL

Thanks for the formula and fantastic pics.

Darren

I've finally learned how to post a picture to this site...........a really big accomplishment for me! Here is my typical result with this recipe. I mix it in a DLX, it takes longer than it would in a KitchenAid but comes out fine. We love this bread for grilled sandwiches, some Rosemary Ham, cheese, roasted tomatoes, a little olive oil then on the grill a few minutes.........mmmmmmm

I looked back at the recipe and the reason it didn't turn out is I tried the semolina and he has a range for the water. I used the upper amount. Even after 30 min it was still like watery paste. So for the 1st try of the formula I would not try the 2nd version and would not use the higher water amount.

Mattie yours looks wonderful !! c

I wondered...glad to hear it probably waasn't me !! I think it is the absorption rate of the semolina vs flour. THANK YOU c

Bigjoe13,this is a deliberately high hydration dough that is almost like handling a blob of sticky bubbles. It is mixed so long that every particle of flour is coated with water and gives off its wonderful sticky starch. As it rises, it becomes a moist,marshmallowy blob that is best handled as little as possible and with the assist of a dough knife.It is not like the usual dough that is kneaded and folded by hand and has a velvety,smooth feel.

So,try again and resist the temptation to add more flour than is called for. It should be a glossy,sticky dough that needs to be handled like a mass of soap bubbles-very lightly,with wet hands and as little as possible.

Have fun!

I tried the Cocodrillo Ciabatta today. I made half of the batch with some whole wheat flour, the other part I made with semolina.

What to say - a sticky thing! Incredible soft . . . There's a lot left to improve. I couldn't withstand to try some of the bread freshly out of the oven, that's why there's only one semolina loaf.  (to the left.)

It was very tasty while still warm, but I can't say anything about the ciabatta when cooled down. I don't expect huge surprises because it's a straight dough.

I've written more about it on my blog:oventv.wordpress.com (And I posted some more pictures there, too. No crumb shots yet though, the first loaf got eaten by my family and me to fast)

Salome

Here they are, two shots of the Coccodrillo Ciabatta with whole-wheat instead of Semolina:

I made a delicious lunch-sandwich with it, I stuffed it with smoked salmon, some cream cheese which I mixed with horseraddish, and some crunchy lettuce leaves. So soft and light. I'm very satisfied with the crumb. YUM!

Salome

Ive had success so far with the first half of the recipe, but my 90 degree summer kitchen is causing the bread to rise ultra fast, hopefully this does not diminish the flavor of the bread!

I mixed it for about 25 minutes on a speed of 6 as well. My only modification of the original recipe was using a little bit of extra water and adding maybe 30grams of wheat germ.

I've made this twice now and just love it!  So much easier than using a biga---just a tad less flavorful...most people would never notice.  The flavor and texture always comes out just right. I've found I can almost "pour" the dough out for proofing right into the desired shapes.  I let it proof right on my dusted silestone island and carefully scoop it up with my dough scraper when it's time to put it on parchment.  It's a tricky thing to do, but practice makes perfect! 

This recipe is very easy to make, had family over for the weekend the kids 'LOVED' checking on it while  rising in a food grade bucket. Unfortunatelly, it was too wet for me to flip over.  Gorgeous color but bottoms were a bit pale. Not giving up on it though, will try again, thanks so much for posting Amori.

What a great recipe.  I've been wanting to try ciabatta, and this was a great success.  I'd print a picture, but it looks like everyone else's. 

On a side note, I sliced it about 4 inches wide, then down the center (top separated from bottom) and made grilled cheese sandwiches for our tomato soup.  The kids were a little skeptical until I mentioned that it was Crocodile Bread.  They pouted that we had eaten it all up.

My own recent adventure with this bread,

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/13519/mission-ciabatta

There are some tips on handling this extremely wet dough as well.

I'd given up on succeeding with another recipe but you have renewed my hope that I will finally be able to make a ciabatta loaf. A great effort. M

I'was able to successfully make this recipe a few weeks ago, but this time - I was waiting for it "to triple" as emphasized in the directions.  It was getting close but was still about 25% away from triple when it collapsed in the container.

I"m not sure what to do with it now.  I stirred it down and thought about putting some refreshed starter in it tomorrow because it's getting late today.

any suggestions on what went wrong?  It must have taken all of the 30 minutes in the kitchenaid to develop and start to climb the paddle.  actually it was almost 45 minutes.  There were lots of gluten strands when I put it in the oiled container even though it had not 'cleaned' the sides and bottom of the KA.  It had, for the most part, but not like it had on my last batch.

I used high gluten bread flour and followed the directions to the letter.  It's not overly warm in the house.  I did turn on the oven when the dough got close to the 'tripled' size, but that shouldn't have affected it.

Help?

-susie

I attempted this recipe again after watching the how-to video mentioned in this thread

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14554/deep-brown-golden-color#comment-91200

I don't have a kitchenaid, but do have a 20 year old siemens kitchen machine that looks exactly like the bosch compact.  I added 70grams of my sourdough discard for flavour and it looks wonderful. It's really quite fun to make :)

Thanks!

Hi

Here is my loaf. I messed up on the flour as I did a wrong computation but when I added the extra I think it screwed up my crumb. The taste was good. Nice Spring. I did the 450 on temp after 10 minutes.  Transfered with a peel to Stone.

Nice flavor and will try to do a better loaf in few days.

I agree outstanding bread my second try with right amount of flour was sooooooo tasty. Outstanding crust and the crumb was full of nice holes with a sweet taste.

 Have to try to get a little larger loaf and not ruin the crumb in doing it. This dough like jelly what a challenge and so scary when you try to pick it up.

Mt. Bob

Perhaps this thread will help:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11826/apology

Today I decided to try the semolina version which is now rising getting ready for the final bake in about an hour.

Here is my question:  I mixed together the flour, yeast and water and as usual  - I allow to hydrolyse for at least 10 minutes before adding the salt.  I got side-tracked today and it was almost 30 minutes before I added the salt.  When I began mixing in the mixer it almost  immediately cleaned the sides of the bowl and the bottom.  Less than 5 minutes to be exact.  I did mix it a little longer just in case, but would suppose it did that because of the long hydrolyse prior to the salt addition or because of the semolina version?  I have noticed that holding off on the salt in the beginning does shorten the mixing time in the regular version, but this was amazing!

Does it achieve the same goal as prolonged mixing by allowing it to sit for a longer period of time before adding the salt?

just curious.  Even more curious to see how it turns out.

-susie

I would like to make a loaf (many loaves) with only a 2 inch diameter.What's the easiest way to handle the dough? I want to be able to slice these loaves into 1/4 in slices for appetizers.

Hmmmmmmm   I wonder now if that was not the problem I had last 2 times I tried this bread. First time was not that bad.

I bought a scale and now started to measure in Grams instead of just a cup or what ever. i beat the H out of it and it still was so soupy that I could not even begin to work with it.  For sure it was like pancake batter . First time was not to bad and i had a good looking loaf considering.  Taste was also very good and the crumb was excellent.

  I am now also thinking water might have been the culprit. Have to try again and add little flour. But again not wsure if that will help as I assume it does not need any more ??? just less water..

  Glad I am not the only one that had a problem.

Have a nice day and good luck

Mr.Bob

Hi 

 Well my post on Nov 28 was what I call not bad. Since then 2-3 batches all seem ok. Last 2 as I mentioned earlier yesterday not good at all. I beat the h out of it with a hook for at least 30+ minutes .

It just would not get more than real bad soup.  It poured out of the bowl like water. 

 It did a triple rise .   Impossible to handle with a little expertise even.  Then no spring in the oven. Like a pancake after it was baked.  Taste was fair looked almost like a flat bread.

Next time well this be 3rd bad batch I will hope for better as I know it is supposed to be ok. Nothing changed in my procedure either way.

Have a nice weekend

Mr. Bob

www.siemann.us 

I am surprised people are having to beat this this so long. Here is my one loaf method, I've made it a dozen times and it always comes out the same. Huge holes and very tasty.

250g bread flour

238g water

1 tsp yeast

6g salt

70g discarded starter (65%)

Using speed 6 on Cuisinart, beat for 5 minutes with paddle, switch to hook and beat for 5 minutes

Let triple, shape, flip onto stone and bake 500 16 minutes.

I follow the method in the youtube video I linked to above and this ciabatta is a household favorite!

Ciabatta, like all bread, freezes well for short periods. Wrap it well or put in a plastic bag when it is completely cool and freeze. When ready to use, unwrap and put directly in a 350 degree oven until hot and crusty, about 15-20 minutes.

OR, rinse with water all over, pop in a hot oven until crusty, and serve.

You can cut loaves in half first if you are planning on using them for toast, defrost partially in the microwave, then slice and toast.  I've done all of the above, and they all work. I bake a lot, and my freezer is always full of bread.

Patricia

Well, Christmas has come and gone.  All that bread baking for the season has left me with a Kitchen Aid in pieces on my dining table, after stripping the gears with WAY too much chocolate sourdough!  Despite my current bread 'handicap', I decided to try this recipe.  I've never made ciabatta, and didn't have high hopes, considering the long beating times needed to make this recipe.  But, low and behold, it can be done!  I used Bertinet's slap and fold method (sort of) mixed with a traditional fold, aided by some oil and a good dough scraper.  I used three folds at 20 minute intervals.  I wish now that I had oiled with olive oil for better flavor, but otherwise, I'm so happy with the results!  So, it's entirely possible to achieve a good ciabatta without your mixer!  Yay!  This will be my bread of choice for the week while I wait for my new gears to arrive in the mail :)

Glad you had success susie!

I've never doubled the recipe, in fact I think my recipe is 1/2 of the original..it makes one loaf that the two of us can finish in a day.

I always autolyse without the salt. I read some posts here on the effect of the salt on the yeast..it isn't pretty. I measure out the salt and sit it on top of the covered dough so that I don't forget to add it right before mixing.

As for the making pizza with it, I did try it once, but, as much as I like a thick crust, it was TOO much crust, even for me... so I always make jmonkeys sourdough pizza but I use bread flour and all my discard and it turns out perfect...1/2 his recipe makes a nice size 14"x16" pizza.

I never tried adding Olive Oil ...but then I do use quite a bit in the container I let it rise in.

I added the pizza recipe I use here

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15805/my-take-jmonkeys-sourdough-pizza

I made this ciabatta this weekend and it turned out wonderfully -- huge holes, very moist, great thin crust...but I thought the flavor was a little lacking compared to other ciabatta I've made (Hamelman's Bread) that use a pre-ferment. Has anyone tried using a pre-ferment with this recipe that they'd like to share? Thanks.

I added a big glob of high hydration sourdough starter to this recipe and added a little more flour and followed the recipe as is otherwise. It came out great. (You could always make the starter in the proportions of the flour/water in the recipe if you wanted to be precise.)

Patricia

I really don't want to wade through all these posts looking, but has anyone tried a large batch... say, with a floor mixer, maybe 10-20X as much?

I had heard that that a bakery in California does a large order like that. I just wonder why you cannot iterpolate.  Let up know how many loaves you want and ??? some one will give you the figures I am sure.  Wow thats a lot of slop to handle. Have to say good luck.

Mr. Bob

Ragreen

I regularly make a batch of 20 loaves at a time and I use the bakers % method for measurement.  Yes it is a lot of slop - be  careful it will run off your work bench- but it sure is good!  It is my customers favorite!

Rick

Hi

I read all the psots here and decided to use Variation 1 recipe. Since I did not have a Kitchen Aid I experimented using bread machine. My machine has a dough cycle which lasts 90 minutes of which 30 minutes are when the dough is built and 60 is the rest period. What I did was to remove the dough after 30 minutes and let is triple in size in a plastic container for abot 3 hours. Following that it was all easy and it turned out very nice. Evenly distributed large air pockets. Good crust.

Thanks for the quick recipe.

After a long search on many sites, and some failed attempts, I happened on this site and decided to try again.  Bottom line was 2 beautiful loaves with wonderful HOLES all through; truly a first.

I'll skip all the details except for ones that may help another seeker.

-  Weighing the ingredients is the way to go.  Used generic bread flour

-  Never heard of "instant yeast" so used regular dry.  Followed someone's suggestion of dissolving yeast in lukewarm water with a small pinch of sugar for 1/2 hour.

- Started with half batch of Jason's recipe (tired of eating failed experiments!)

-  Only have an older bread machine so used manual setting for 15 minutes.  One key point needs to be stressed.  When you have the lump right, you know it.  it's really sticky and glue-y.

-  I was expecting to wait the 2 1/2 hours for it to triple, but in 1 hour it was at the top of the container - nearly 4x the original, so I decided to go ahead.

-  Don't know what either peel or stones or parchment are yet, so used a cookie sheet with flour; worked fine.

Awesome bread........

Thanks to all who posted; especially the detail people.  I obviously have a lot to learn including scoring the bread.  In time......

Original recipe but I added about a 1/2 teaspoon of caraway seeds. What a flavor. I beat the heck out of it with my KA a new pro. It wanted to jump off the counter at the end.  Nice crust and crumb.  It was baked in a LaCloche clay baker.

I slid the loaf onto a piece of parchment then transfered to a peel.

 I then dropped it in the already hot Lacloche at 500 degrees.  Be careful thats the tricky part not to get burned.  Baked for 10 minutes took the lid off and baked for another 10 minutes. Cooled for about 35 minutes and below is one loaf and the balance of the other I ate. Soooooooooooooo  tasty.

Mr Bob

I halved the master recipe but otherwise followed it completely.
Notice I did not get a nice color and the bread was quite soft and no hard crust.

Any ideas of what I did wrong?  Comments?

Here are pics of my attempt.. I didn't quite get the "spring" that I was hoping for.

scottv,

Explain the steps you used in your preparation and baking in order for someone to give advice. 

Rick

OK, first let me say I love this stuff. That being said, I'm trying to tweak it to what I want. I must say that I pretty much follow this recipe to the last detail, the only subjective thing is the perception of when kneading is "finished." I knead until the dough cleans from the bottom except for a spot about the size of a half dollar (remember those?). I put it on a stone, and bake it at 500F. At seven minutes, I give it a spin and turn the temp down to 400. It also has steam introduced at the very start.

Now, the differences... directly on the stone, it reaches an internal temp of 205 about eight minutes in, shortly after I turn it. The crust is way too pale, so I cook it a couple more minutes until it's the right color. This results in an internal temp of 212. The problem is, the crust is still soft, but so is the structure. It's one of those "start to cut the crust and crush the bread" kind of things. Would just overall longer cooking at a lower temp fix this with maybe more structural strength?

All was going well - my bread machine lets you do an entire manual program so I went with a 5 minute initial mix followed by a 20 minute knead cycle, then poured the whole lot into a bowl. I was dragged out to 'assist' mum with the grocery shopping, and eventually dragged her home again 3 1/2 hours later half expecting to find disaster waiting for me. Instead - a nice looking dough (if one can call it that - it still looked like batter to me!)

Cut, floured and put onto a board, then an hour later shaped and threw into the (electric) oven. And five minutes into my baking, a bloody possum zapped himself on the power lines and blacked out the entire area. I'm devastated... I've never had success with ciabatta (mine have always resembled scottv's) and these looked like they were going to be just beautiful. I had a fantastic homemade vegie stew ready to go with them and now I just have to have my regular bread with it. Wish me better luck with my next attempt!

Delicious with chilli! This is so addictive!

I made this bread today, and it turned out great!  I was wondering if it would also work with a longer rise in the refrigerator while I'm at work (8-10 hours).  Would I need to decrease the yeast?

Thanks for any ideas!

Hmmmmmm   Very good question.  I have done this bread now many times but have not tried the refrigerator to slow down the first rise. I also wonder if that would work and  if it will improve the taste considerable.

I think I will try it if you do not get any posts and see if it will work.  its a bear to work with but I have now managed with the help of parchment paper and a pizza peel to get a pretty good loaf. Also in a french bread pan it does a nice spring.

Have a nice day

Bob

www.siemann.us

  Hi
Well I am not sure if your temp is the reason for the flat loaf. I am sure some one will pop in and give you a idea also. I am a complete novice compared to lot of the folks on here.  I do not trust my oven even though it is new so I have a external temp guage I put in the oven. Cheap investment.

   I noticed that the post said 500 for ten minutes and 450 for 10 min.  I have never lowered it to 450 not that it would not be ok.

   If you look at a few of the photos you will see that others have a flat loaf also. They also make a nice sandwich.  I have had that also some time ago and not sure what I did wrong. I think it might have been how i handled it not sure. It is awful to work with until you get the hang of it. I never have been able to pick it up and move it.

     In my coach i have the micr/conv. oven and it is useless for bread. I have to find a recipe that is under 450 and try it. I threw out so many loaves. Birds love it.

     Well good luck and I am sure if you ask you will get a real pro. that will give you some info on the temp.  You might do as i do crank the oven wide open and then set it back to the temp you want. i loose quickly when i open the door.

    Mr. Bob
www.siemann.us

Wow that looks awesome!

Do you think it would work out using wheat flour?

newfieguy

I have aways read you have to let the dough rise in a warmer place to make it the biggest possible.  How does putting it in a fridge help make it rise?  I would figure that would kill the rise no?

Just curious why you put it in the fridge for 18 hours.

Also why did you spray the sides with water?  Make the outside soft?

Thanks!

I love this recipe and I make it once a week at least.  The bread has ALWAYS turned out perfect. 

WEll this week I ran out of bread flour!  I grind my own WW so I dumped in what little left I had in the bag as I still have no idea how to make bread flour - any suggestions I am all ears so I wound up with about only 100g of bread flour and the rest WW freshly ground.

FIrst thing I noticed was that the gloop would not pull from the sides at all.  I beat the heck out of it for a good 30 minutes and eventually just said to heck with it.  I let it rise for a few hours but the nice songy wobbly goop that normally is left when I pour it out all came out in a chunk and it was almost a loaf right there. 

I am about to bung it in the oven once I hit temperature but I did not get the right rise for sure and it is much more solid and regular loaf like rather than ciabatta!  Oh well!  A science experiment if nothing else.

Technically if you took the recipe above and switched over WW for the Bread flour, in the dough's brain what are we doing to it to make it more loaf like?

Can not wait to see what it turns out like!

Newfieguy

Made Ciabatta recipe #1 today.. it blew us all away.  I'm trying so hard not to devour the entire batch!  Tons of holes and a gorgeous, moist crumb with a beautiful chew.  This is a most excellent recipe. 

I used my new mixer the Electrolux Assistent and mixed it the entire way with the roller and scraper.  I used the entire timer just once - about 12 minutes and I used the highest speed throughout.  Its interesting to watch this dough transform from a doughy wet mess to a silky smooth and gorgeous dough at the end.  It was very impressive.  I didn't see the point in mixing any further.  It was trying to climb up the roller, but at the end of 12 minutes, I figured it was enough. 

I did not add my salt until after the first 10 minute rest.  I used instant yeast and bread flour.  Everything was excellent.. and a great way to break in my new mixer.  Thanks for sharing.  My husband wants to do grilled burgers tomorrow with avocado.. so it looks like I'll be making more ciabatta for the buns.  Yum!

It is a lot of fun making this bread.  I make it occassionally as we primarily eat whole grain breads, but when guests come over, I pull out this recipe.  On two occassions I have included bacon in this recipe. 

Yesterday I experimented with reducing the hydration a little (from 95% to 90%).  It may have been my imagination, but it seemed to handle a little better.

What an overnight fermentation would do for this?  One day I'll have to try it! 

Curious if your bacon would sink during the final rest period?  My dough is so wet that if I added a pea, I feel it would sink to the bottom.

Thanks for replying.  Fun to hear what others are doing with their loaves.

Forgot to do the rest after combining ingredients.  I then kneaded it too slowly with a dough hook for 40 minutes.   It didn't do anything.  Then I let it rest for 15 minutes and then beat at high speed until it pulled away from the bowl.  There 3 speeds on a Globe mixer.  With all the mistakes it still came out nicely. 

It is rare that I can make this many mistakes and still be forgiven.

first try was pretty good. It was a bit too chewy and moist inside. looking for a dryer interior. please help.

Formula was followed to a T using KA BF.

The interior and tooth shattering crips exterior with the moist and chewy crumb are what is so appealing to me!  Try a different flour, more flour, longer bake at lower temp.. Personally, I would find something else that would better suit what you like.  Maybe a focaccia?

thanks for the input

I can only suggest you check your measurements - are you going by weight? This concoction is so wet you can't even touch it :)

I love my Fibrament stone.  I've had it for more than five years now.

This ciabatta recipe is really good and easy!  I made some very slight changes - I used the Semolina version, but don't have semolina, so substituted white whole wheat and a litte ground flax meal.

I used:

350 grams King Arthur bread flour

145 grams white whole wheat

5 grams flax meal

480 grams filtered water

15 grams salt

2 tsp instant yeast

And followed the instructions.  Just make sure the flax meal doesn't sink to the bottom while it's kneading.  I've taken this bread to a supper with friends and to my knit along night and it's gotten rave reviews.  And it keeps well to the next day too.

After reading all the positive comments and seeing the yummy pics of these ciabattas, I decided to invest in a KA stand mixer so I can make this bread (I saw that some of you were able to do it by hand but I am not there yet...).  After I unpacked my KA and started to flip through the manufacturer's manual, I noticed that there was a warning that said to knead the dough at speed 2 as any other speed may cause the KA's failure.  Huhhhh, what was that all about?  This is a Professional 5, 475 w machine (which is a bit stronger than the Artisan series).  Most of the postings relating to KA did mention a kneading at speed 6 for appx 10 to 30 min.  Am I missing something here?  I bought this machine just so I can do this particular bread...sigh.

I'd like to get some feedback please before I start doing anything with my KA-Jason's ciabatta recipe.  Merci

Problem solved.  Will do this ciabatta this weekend and report back.  I have so many shaped loaves in my fridge ready to be  baked that I don't know where to put all my other refrigerated foods.  Once I am done baking these babes, will move on to this recipe.  Cheers

kisgabi,

I no longer live in Australia, but I used to (Melbourne).  Laucke Wallaby is good flour to use.  I've used Manildra's, but preferred LW's because of the natural aroma when baking.  You can also see if your local baker can sell you some of their flour.  It's hard to find LW or any bread flour in local stores sometimes. 

Good luck.

Ok, let me start by saying that I was ready to throw this gluey dough halfway through.

I decided to try out this recipe but cut all the ingredients in half.  I added the salt only after the 10 min rest.  I sprayed the paddle and spiral hook to avoid having the dough pull up too much.  And that is where I thought I made the first mistake.  After 20 min beating the dough at speed 6 on my KA, it did not look like the dough was ever going to pull away from the bowl.  Getting a bit impatient, I raised the speed to no 8 a few times after 25 min.  The dough was still not climbing up the hook and I was afraid that the Pam was causing it.  The dough did come close to pulling completely away from the bowl but at the very last second, the dough would fall right back into the bowl.  After 30 min of the beating, I just decided to pour it out and let it triple anyways.

Two hours passed and the dough must have risen appx half its size and here I'm thinking I needed the dough to triple.  Not happening...so I was gonna throw it out.  But since I did not have anything to do and no where to go, I figured I'd just let it sit there for as long as it needed til it'd triple as an experiment.  Hold and behold, after 3h30, the dough almost tripled.

Baked it and .....the ciabattas were superbe!  Big holes, airy, light, moist, crust is wonderful.  The only complaint is, as some of you may have noticed, the lack of depth with taste and flavors.  Not a bad bread but definitely one that needs to be eaten as a "panini" type, or dipped in oil, etc...to enhance its flavor.

But still, I'd encourage you to test it for yourself.

Thanks for stopping by.  Like I said, the crumb and crust turned out perfectly.  Love my ciabattas.  It's just that I also baked P.R. ABED French bread this am and when I compare the two flavors, I can definitely see a difference in taste and flavor complexity.  I am not disappointed with this ciabatta; it's just another kind of bread that requires a bit more flavor enhancement IMHO. I may also try out adding a poolish just to see the difference.

I did use KAF and SAF yeast.  I thought about making the original recipe the next time I did this again (when I was about to throw the dough away) but since the ciabattas turned out great, I wouldn't mind keeping it at half the portion (I live alone during the weekdays and there is no way I can go through all this bread by myself).

And for sure, I will buy an air tight container; have been meaning to do this for some time.  My hubby cannot believe how I have besieged our kitchen with tons of kitchen tools and gadgets in just the las month.

Hi Gabi,

The actual recipe itself is quite simple: flour, water, salt and yeast.  The reason why I am reluctant to post it is bcuz the instructions are a bit long.  In addition, I have also used a variation (please read my posting in General Discussion and Recipe Exchange: Peter Reinharts artisan breads.  I could try to summarize it but I am afraid I would leave out some important info.  Furthermore, is there any rule regarding copying someone else's recipe?  If I am allowed to do so, I will try to cook you up something and post it on a different forum (so I do not take up any space at this forum).

But in the end, the best thing to do is to buy his book; it is worth every penny of it (and this is coming from a newbie baker).  The book is very user-friendly, the pictures delicious....all in all, a beautiful book that I highly recommend.  What I baked yesterday morning was absolute PERFECTION (crust, crumb, appearance) and Peter knows how to take you there.  My hairdresser couldn't believe how amazing the bread tasted.

After the rest, I put the dough into one of those 6 quart containers with a lid.  It was a double amount so the 2 qts would have to triple before reaching the lid.  When I came back 2 1/2 hours later the dough had expanded to the point the lid was crowned up from pressure of the rising dough.  I opened the lid which produced a loud pop and the dough fell to slightly more than the original amount that I put in the plastic container.  Am I a goner?  Should I let it rise again in the plastic container or divide the dough into 4 loafs and go for it?

I know now that the 2 1/2 hours time should have been lessened and that I should have opened the lid more gradually.

We are all in this together,

Al

Knead it a few strokes by hand to put new food in reach of the yeast, and then shape it right away.  Watch the proofing carefully and aim to bake it somewhat under proofed.  Don't let it over proof or there may not be enough food to sustain it.  Even so, you may not get great oven spring, and you might get a paler crust than otherwise, but it will still taste good.

OldWoodenSpoon

This page gets a lot of attention. The bread is out standing. I did two batches yesterday. Oven already up to temp so just time the proofing.

I have added 2 tablesppons of wheat flour to both batches of bread, Normail proofing 1 1/2 to 2 hours.

Taste is very good.  Nice Crispy crust and lot of holes in the crumb.

Have a nice Holiday,

Mr Bob

www.siemann.us/motosat.html

So i made this today but since i dont understand metric, i converted to cups. So 500g of flour is equal to 4 cups flour. so when i added all the ingredients into my kitchenaid, and then added the water, it mixed up FAST. it didnt look like pancake batter at any stage. more like pie crust. haha. Any way, the dough was really really thick and clung to the hook. after it rose 3 times, it still was thick, not gloopy at all. just curious if i converted everything correctly.

thanks

Your experience is a perfect example of why anyone who bakes bread needs a scale.. buy one that weighs both metric and US.  They aren't that expensive and they worth every single penny. 

You either converted your dough wrong or you added way too much. This dough truly is a wet, gloppy blob... I'm sorry it didn't work for you.  It's super nice bread.

Thanks for the reply. Thats nice to know though!. It trippled just fine and hten i put it into the cibatta shape and put it in the oven and low and behold... flatbread. so we had naan for dinner rather than ciabatta, haha

its googles fault for the conversions then. according to google and answers.com, 125grams = 1 cup flour... So the internet doesnt know everything. haha

i think my sister has a scale, i will try that next time. Oh and it could have been that i do the scope and sweep method of measureing. i dont use a sifter at all. i just scope it in the cup and use a knife to levle it out.

thanx guys

As BellesAZ pointed out..you need a scale. You can scoop, scrape, sift and google BUT until you use a scale it's all guesswork.

Sweet action, thanx guys.yeah my sister has a scale, i just weighed some 500 grams of flour and it ended up 3 cups. i used medal gold AP bleached flour. i wanted unbleached but mis read the dang bag. haha

here is my problem, i dont know if i will bake it at 500. 450 make a to crispy of a crust for me. i prefer a softer crust, still crispy but not extremely crsipy.

what if i were to bake at 430?

thanx. oh and is there a forum here so i can post questions in there rather than all on a single blog? how do the moderators of this place prefere things to be done?

also i live 4600 feet elevation so my crumb is always dense and not airy at all.

ok cool. if the crust softens then i will just bake it as is. i will at least do the recipe exactly once before i do anything to it or change anything.

the pics above look awesome and im hoping mine will turn out somewhat like that, but my crumb is always dense due to elevation, oh well. at least flavor should still be there.

im gonna try another batch soon. this time, now that i have a scale, im gonna wiegh it all.

Elevation may have nothing to do with it.  Your crumb can be dense because you have been mis-measuring flour all this time - something to think about.  It really does make a difference. 

Three elements just off the top of my head (although I'm sure there are many more) can effect your bread - the type of flour (brand does matter as does bleached and unbleached in my opinion), the knead (do you knead your dough enough.. or even too much?  And finally, weighing vs. measuring flour.  This can make a major difference in how your breads turn out. 

At high altitude you have hydration issues naturally - so if you're measuring flour, you're most likely using too much, which - when added to the hydration issues of high altitude, leaves you struggling with a dense crumb or heavy loaf.  Also, your bread will rise a bit faster at high altitude, so I'd use an instant yeast, not rapid rise. 

Hope that helps.. I lived in Montana at high altitude for many years and never had bread baking issues, but I always could feel when my hydration was just right.. and knew when I had kneaded just enough. 

Good luck

You know those instructions that say, "and flip them upside down (this redistributes the bubbles, so you get even bubbles throughout), and onto parchment or a heavily floured peel." I have never been a master flipper so here is  an alternative using 1/2 gallon plastic milk jugs.  I cut them length wise in a "V".  The point goes down and they are held up with wood blocks on the sides.  They are sprayed with olive oil and each of the six loaves did the final rise in one of milk jug halves.  It was a very simple step to turn each one upside down on parchment paper when ready.

It might be considered the coward's way out but it worked for me.

I don't have the spreading issue for whatever reason.  I use two dough scrapers and scrape up each end at the same time, flipping it over onto my parchment for the final resting before baking.  I get a nice spring on my loaves and I actually never touch the dough.. I use my dough scrapers to cut, flip and final shape the loaves.  Actually, I learned this method from Jen Menke's video where she goes through the entire process from beginning to end - here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v24OBsYsR-A

so i just bought me some because it was uber cheap and i have heard dang good things bout it!

I agree . I use parchment paper for every loaf.  After it has sat for about 45 minutes and starting to proof. I Wet my hands turn roll it onto the parchment parpr and shape.  I have a few photos on this page unless I deleted them. I get a nice rise and lots of holes for dipping and holding the oil and pepper.

I do 2 mixes at a time and when the first one is ready in about 45 minutes the second 3 loaves are ready also for the oven.  Delicious sandwich bread and with flour at $1.50-1.75  for 5 lbs at Wallmart most expensive thing is tha ac for baking. Happy Holidays .

Mr.Bob

Hey,  Tried this today.  Only have a food mixer but since others have used them I figured I'f be okay.

The mixer switched off burnt out after about 15 mins.

Left to rise, didn't but got really hot for some reason.

Baked it anyway and tastes fine just very heavy and flat.

I did use warm water as the yeast instructions said.

Can any one help?

Thanks

Hi dragoninink

   Sorry about your mixer. I have to beat mine 20-30 minutes on high speed. I have KA Pro. Have had flat bread but not sure . I think inexperience was my problem.

 This was last bread. about 2 weeks ago

Have a Happy Holiday. I find that my success has been going exactly by the recipe . I do as mentioned in previous post add 2 table spoons of either wheat or rye flour to the mix.  Just seems to taste a little nicer. But that is from my taste buds.

Mr.Bob

I put these on for our New Years Day dinner, which was Marinara and Meatballs... the recipe from Jason is followed exactly.. only I add a bit more water (490 grams) since I live in Arizona.  Perfect every time and the oven spring is great!

This dough is supposed to be extremely hydrated and have tons of bubbles.. so the answer is yes.  It is definitely supposed to be "gloppy" and sloppy if you are using this formula.  I never touch it with my hands, I just use wet dough scrapers.  i think every formula is going to be slightly different.  I haven't seen or tried Gisslen's formula or percentages, methods, etc.  I've made many ciabatta's and by far, this one has really given me a great bread.  Others are slightly more flavorful, but not nearly as convenient and fast.   Are other methods more traditional?  Probably, but the outcome is fantastic and that's all I care about.  Give this a go and do your own comparison.  Nice, holey and moist ciabatta with a crackly crust is hard to achieve, but it is very easy using Jason's methods.

I modified the recipe using my wild sourdough starter and it came out great!

443 g KA bread flour

272 g water

453 g 100% wild starter

10g salt

Mixing took a full 30 min to thicken as called for.

At 100% my starter will rise for 5.5 to 6 hours. As it turne out, for the dough to tripple it took six hours. The rest of the process went as called for in the recipe.

The results were great. The bread has a great sourdough flavor.

I also thickened the dough a bit and made english muffins that were great too!

I forgot to mention that the muffins I made only had to rise for 4 hrs. I did not wait for them to tripple.

I made this recipe (variation 1) and it was good - nice and chewy. I'm a real neophyte trying to understand hydration, feel of what I'm looking for to get what I want (like I can do with cookies!) and trying to understand all this. Mine was a little dense but I could see SOME big holes, so I am on the right track. I will keep doing this recipe to be my guinea pig for learning about bread.

One thing I have determined is I do need to get a scale - approximates for me now just don't work!

I was really surprised how similar this recipe is to my regular loaf/roll recipe.

I'll definitely aim more for ciabatta and less for white bread for my next bake.

Tip:

I tried this thing once, turned out quite fun:

Add some rosemary and swap half the water with red wine. Red, tasty bread, weird, right?

Did a double batch about two hors ago. Still to warm to eat.Mr Bob

This bread looked so good I had to give it a try. This is the results of following the Semolina version of the recipe. I did make a "no knead" Ciabatta that I thought had more flavor but as you can see this is a very pretty looking loaf. 

I LOVED this recipe!  I made it Friday and then made it again Saturday.  This is the first ciabatta recipe I have ever tried.  Thanks for making it so easy and accessible!  :D  I used a kitchen aide artisan mixer.

The first time I made it, I mixed the dough with a paddle, let it rest for 10 minutes and then changed to a bread hook and beat it on 4 for 25 minutes.  Nothiing happened until I moved the speed up.  The bread was super tastey but not a ton of rise. 

The second time I made it, I, again, mixed the dough with a paddle, let it rise for 10 minutes BUT I left the paddle on and mixed it on crazy high speed.  In about 4 minutes the dough was pulling away from the sides and climbing up the paddle.  I switched to the bread hook and the dough formed a ball in on super high speed in about 2 minutes.  This bread had a taller rise.  

Both times the  bread tasted soooo good.  I used the half bread / half semolina flour recipe.  YUM!!!

Thanks for that!

The link works now.. it's great to see how well it turned out for you, although the pictures aren't popping for some reason. It's just not my day to be on the computer I guess!

I did note your comment on the overnight ferment. There is one loaf that really develops nicely from the overnight process and that's Peter Reinhardts Vienna Bread.. the difference is night and day - at least to me, it is!

Thanks for reposting.. it is much appreciated.

 If you don't have a stand mixer,  you can use a food processor.  I used a Cuisinart Power Prep 14 cup model ( DLC 2014N),  mixed the bread flour for a few seconds till everything was moist, waited 20 minutes to autolyse, then added the salt and processed for about another 20 to 30 seconds.  Unfortunately, as it comes together instead of rising up the hook as she shows in the video, the dough works its way down the tube for the motor,  so it is helpful if you catch it before that happens.

This recipe seems to have a lot of salt - about twice the amount I use in other breads. Is it necessary to have so much for this style of bread or can I safely reduce it?

Richard.

Another question!

Is it necessary to have a baking stone for this to work well? The recipe mentions that the oven spring is immense but is this reliant on a hot stone?

Richard.

Moved into the motor home for the summer. Only have a micro/convection  small oven In the past not good luck with bread.

I only made 3 loaves from the whole recipe. I put them on a pizza pan and baked. 15 minutes . 3 minutes on convection at 425 all the oven will go. After 3 minutes I would turn the turntable on to rotate 50% to get even crust color.  The crumb was full of holes . The crust was chewey not hard but with the low heat about all I can expect.  The crumb was nice and moist. Not sure how dense it could be but had a nice flavor.

Thanks for posting this recipe!  I just made it for the first time tonight.  Just got a Bosch Compact mixer and I wanted to experiment. I used KASL flour and semolina.  I used the dough hook throughout, both for the initial mixing and for the "beating the hell out of it part".  Put the mixer on high and it took just under 10 minutes for it to start bouncing around.  It didn't really climb the hook, but it cleared the bowl and was as close to window-paning as you can get with something so sticky.  I did need to hold the mixer a bit towards the end, to keep it from walking, even with the little suction cups.  Rise took only 1 1/2 hours to triple.  The crumb came out beautiful, similar to the initial poster's pictures, and the flavor was great.  This one is a keeper!!!

Hello I have a quick question.

 I have made this recipe many times and have posted here many loaves and there condition on this site.   My loaves are always well proofed baked and  full of nice holes.   If not a crispy crust that I get in my home oven it will be a chewy crust from baking in a micro/convection oven in my Motor Coach.

My bread regardless of looks or good crumb it does not have a nice flavor.  I use King Arthur  or  Gold Medal unbleached and un bromated flour

I have tried also letting it do a proof in my refrigerator to ??? get more flavor but it still is a bland taste.  Wonder if there is any thing I might add to increase the flavor or taste. 

I might mention my crumb is sort of a moist content.    My bread temp is about 205 + 1-2 degrees in temp when pulled from the oven.     Most folks enjoy it but I think it should be better and a little more on the drier side for the crumb for  a nicer flavor and taste.

Thanks for reading my post.  it is a wonderful recipe after you master handling it.  Mr. Bob

This bread was a pleasure to make and really turned out nice.  Thank you for originally posting this recipe and staying with it!!!  Lots of support you have given to all the posts, I have enjoyed reading and learned a great deal...

Many thanks

Anyone try adding olives to this recipe?
If so, which stage would you add?

Thanks !

this bread is AMAZING.... I learned so much just with working with the semolina recipe. Always wanted to make ciabatta, and silly me I thought the big bubbles were because of the x amount of yeast. I should have known that water plays THE roll of succes (together with the right strength of gluten)

my loafs came out like little wonders... small contribution: I use an unglazed ceramic floor tile as my "floor" in my oven. True stone baked bread now!!

next time I'm going to replace 10% of the bread flour with buckwheat or whole grain rye, see how that will work out..

Have not posted for a few months. My convextion Oven in the Motor Coach

 ok but to get a nice loaf I needed my standard oven.

Did 3 loaves this am Nice Crust and delightfull tasting moist crumb.

I finally tried these instructions for ciabatta and ended up with four wonderful long flat loaves -- not the most beautiful or shapely ones in the world but very toothsomely chewy and tasty with lots of holes.  Split, filled with garlic-sauteed spinach, grilled red pepper slices, bacon, sharp cheddar and pesto mayonnaise, and then grilled.  Yummy supper!

Thanks for sharing this recipe!

I'm seeing credits to Jason Molinari on YouTube and elsewhere for this recipe/method, but I went back to the original posting and see that Jason got the original from John "king of glop". I don't see how something working out this good is being passed on as "Jason's". Here is a link:

http://www.kitchencookingrecipes.com/forum/bread-recipe-forum/270789-buns-jasons-coccodrillo-ciabatta-bread.html

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bread.recipes/browse_thread/thread/ad0e477790ef4f03/a644f520f4b3cd48?rnum=2#

I love this recipe!!! I have made this three days in a row now. My boys won't stop eating it. It is amazingly simple and produces a great bread, made great turkey sandwiches!!!

tried this recipe and really like it, but I am not sure how to fold the dough. Is there any special technique. First try I did not fold it at all. It came out bubbly and wonderful, yet there was a separation in the dough. The second time I folded it like a baguette. It was denser and the loaves came out a bit heavy.

//Bradley

I want to express a huge amount of thanks to lilDice who posted the recipe here, as well as to the king of gloop who came up with the idea of using close to 100% hydration.

For me this was just an experiment, being intrigued by what I'd read in the thread and having a couple of hours to spend.  I honestly didn't think it would work, certainly not after seeing that the 'dough' had the consistency of batter after initial mixing.  

The only thing I modified was adding 100 gr of 100% hydration sourdough starter (that I intende to discard anyway after having refreshed my starter culture).  For the rest I followed the described procedure to the dot. Started mixing with the dough hook but got nowhere after 10 minutes at speed 8 and switched to the paddle attachment.  Sure enough, the dough started coming together and creeping up the paddle after a couple of minutes.  Switched back to the hook and gave it another 4 minutes, then gave it a 10 minute rest (33 centigrade in my kitchen).  This is what it looked like at this point:

Saying things didn't look too promising at this point is a bit of an understatement.

Anyway, I left it in my kitchen to rise.  Perhaps it was the temperature, perhaps the boosting effect due to the injection of extra yeast with my starter but anyway, it tripled within 1.5 hours.  I divided the gloop (manageable but obviously very slack) and gave it a 35 minute rest, at which point we were here (apologies for picture quality):

Meanwhile I had stoke my oven very hot (250 centigrade), placed some cast iron pans at the bottom for extra thermal inertia (don't have a baking stone, yet) and manhandled the liberally floured dough onto a silpad placed on a baking tray.  It lost a lot of oomph while I was manipulating/stretching/flipping it but I wasn't overly concerned, still thinking it wouldn't yield a good result.

Put on the fan in my oven, didn't bother with steam. Oven spring was truly good, considering the deflation that had taken place while manipulating the dough.

After 20 minutes, things were ready and I took it out of the oven to let it cool.

The result:

The crust was crisp, the interior airy and creamy.  I went wrong with shaping, while transferring the dough to the silpad I stretched it too much. The taste was very good!

The are lots of ciabatta recipes floating around (Hamelman mentions two I believe, one with poolish, the other with biga, then there's Wayne Gisslen in 'Professional Baking' who gives a recipe with a preferment and a rather huge quantity of olive oil, just to mention these) but you'll be hard pressed to find anytng as easy/quick and lean as this one.  The only thing I'l try to modify is the quantity of salt:  you don't really taste it after baking but it is rather much, even when using lo-salt.  I'll reduce it by 1/3 rd next time and see what it does.  Shouldn't be a problem as it normally slows down fermentation and that certainly wasn't a problem here.

Finally made the bread - only cut into 6 pieces, one of which is below.

Crumb is softer than it looked with chewy crust. Haven't managed the velvet glove part yet, so it's less holey than it should be, but will definitely be making this again.

 Been a few weeks . Made these for my self and a neighbor.  More you make these better you get????

    Delicious crumb and nice chewy crust. Make a great sandwich roll  cut in 4" length.

Made these today for my self and a neighbor.  They make a delicious sandwich cut in 3-4 inch lengths. More you make these better we get. Have a Happy Holliday Season and a great New Year..

This time my kitchen was still 78 degrees and my flour, in it's storage container was 77 degrees.  So I mixed the dough with 58 degree water. I used bottled mineral water at room temp so I had to put some ice in it to get it down to 58 degrees. Then with the mixer speed the recipe suggests you are going to have an increase of  at least 26 degrees dough temperature because of the mixer friction. My dough at the end of the mixing process was 80 degrees, which is perfect.

The dough tripled in mass in hour and 45 minutes instead of 43 minutes on my first try. The cold water worked. After final shaping and final proofing  which only took 45 minutes I put my loaves in the oven. I still got good ovenspring but this time I got a much better final color. I think my first try my dough was over proofed. 

Here are some pictures...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/food_pictures/9193052175/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/food_pictures/9195867172/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/food_pictures/9195884898/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/food_pictures/9196044808/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/food_pictures/9193566707/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/food_pictures/9194092197/

I agree that recipe makes a beatiful loaf, is easy to make, and has a great crumb. The problem with the bread is its flavor. It does not have enough time to develop great depth and complexity. For a recipe that exudes depth of flavor, may I suggest the recipe for Craig Ponsford's Ciabatta from "Artisan Baking by Maggie Glezer. Side by side there is no comparison. This recipe takes two days to make but is worth the extra effort. The parchment paper makes the shaping and handling easier. Here is a link to the recipe http://breadbasketcase.blogspot.com/2011/01/craig-ponsfords-ciabatta.html, although the ingredients have been halved for 1 loaf instead of two. Since ciabatta is only great the first day, I think halving the recipe is the right way to go. If some ciabatta is going to be left over, I get the best results by freezing it immediately after being fully cooled.

Hi! I made some ciabatta, roughly followin' these instructions and it was AWESOME. I took it to another step though, and separated the dough into several blobs. I used them as bowls for my pizza soup and it was a rousin' success!! Thank you so much for puttin' it here! :>

Thanks Jason for an outstanding and unique recipe. I found that I could make a few slight modifications and turn out a couple of great tasting sandwich (type) loaves using a pan. I did incorporate a sponge. And like the original recipe, the bread is feather light and great tasting. I'll post my changes below, but the claim to fame for this recipe will forever remain yours. Thanks for sharing...

Jason's Quick Coccodrillo Ciabatta Bread

Saturday, July 06, 2013

5:13 AM

THIS WILL NOT HURT YOUR PRECIOUS KITCHEN AIDS

Sponge - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -                                   

200g bread flour  (may substitute AP flour for softer texture)                                                      

175g  water

1/2 tsp. yeast 

Let this sit over night to ferment

Dough - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

300g bread flour  (may substitute AP flour for softer texture)    

300g water 

1 tsp. yeast 

10g (2 tsp.) salt

1. In Kitchen Aid style mixer: Mix all ingredients roughly till combined with paddle, let it rest for 10 minutes.

2. With the paddle  beat the living heck out of the batter, it will start out like pancake batter but in anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes it will set up and work like a very sticky dough. Set mixer to speed 6 with the paddle installed. When the dough starts climbing at about 11 1/2 minutes, then switch to the hook. Set mixer to speed 8 with the hook installed. You'll know it's done when it separates from the side of the bowl and starts to climb up your hook/paddle and just coming off the bottom of the bowl. Once this happens continue for an extra minute. I mean this literally about the climbing, i once didn't pay attention and it climbed up my paddle into the greasy inner workings of the mixer. It was not pretty! Anyway, it will definitely pass the windowpane test.
3. Place into a well oiled container and let it triple! it must triple! For me this takes about 2.5 hours
4. Empty on to a floured counter (scrape if you must, however you gotta get the gloop out), cut into 2 pieces. Fold the dough a couple of times to give it more structure and then place in 2 (8 1/2 X 4 1/2) greased bread pans. Let them proof for about 45 minutes , which gives you enough time to crank that oven up to 500F.
5. Bake at 500F until they are 205F in the center (about 15-20 minutes), rotating 180 degrees half way through. Some people like to turn the oven down to 450F after 10 minutes, but whatever floats your boat.

Pasted from <http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2984/jasons-quick-coccodrillo-ciabatta-bread>

Other links

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v24OBsYsR-A

I made Jason's Quick Coccodrillo Ciabatta Bread (the first recipe from the top of the first page). It turned out perfect and delicious.

I made just a couple of changes to the original recipe.

Ingredients:

500g bread flour (used generic supermarket bread flour)
475g water (used tap water)
2 tsp instant yeast
2 tsp table salt (reduced from the original 15g - I added 12g = 2.4%)

I mixed only the flour and water until all the flour was moistened and let them autolyse for 10 minutes. I added the instant yeast and table salt after the 10-minute rest.

Using my Kitchenaid 5-qt mixer (KSM500PS), with the mixing Paddle, I beat the batter on Speed 4, adding in the Instant Yeast and when it was mixed in, adding the table salt.

I beat the batter on Speed 4 with the mixing Paddle for 4-minutes, until the dough started climbing to the top of the mixing Paddle. I stopped the mixer and scraped the dough all back into the bowl and removed the mixing Paddle.

I switched to the "J" Dough Hook and beat the dough for an additional 11-minutes, until it had pulled away from the sides of the bowl and was pulling from the bottom of the bowl (the dough would pull away and fall back to the bottom of the bowl). Total mixing time 15-minutes on Speed 4. (4-minutes with the mixing Paddle & 11-minutes with the "J" Dough Hook).

From this point on, I followed the recipe exactly as it is printed above and it turned out perfect.

I baked the ciabatta for 15-minutes at 500-F, when it read 205-F internal temperature, I removed it from the oven.

This will be my go to recipe for Ciabatta.

So on Saturday we were invited to dinner, I volunteered to make bread as our contribution to the meal. A couple of days earlier I watched the "That's a lot of Ciabatta" and it looked pretty straightforward. Maybe someday when I watch a video and think "I can do that" I'll practice it a few times.

Short story is that my Ciabatta was a partial success. Tasted great (our friends' kids said it was the best bread they've ever had), crumb was light and airy ... on the bad side was virtually no oven spring. Here we go again ... I've been having the same problems with sourdough ... sigh. Especially frustrating was watching the video and the loaf nearly doubles in volume from oven spring alone.

A couple of things:

1. I used "active yeast" but Jennifer Menke used instant. I assumed - I think incorrectly - that there wouldn't be a difference. The 2nd rise was weak, so either my kitchen was too cold (I proofed the loaves in a warm (80F) oven) or the gluten was not developed sufficiently. Jennifer's dough seemed to maintain its shape and had a nice 2nd rise, my dough merely oozed everywhere.

2. While using my Kitchen Aid with dough hook, the dough came off the bowl after maybe 5 minutes (tops) of mixing. Should I have continued mixing it for 3 to 4 minutes after it came off the bowl? I'm a bit worried that if I overdo it that I'll lose the airy crumb.

I'll try again but this is getting ridiculous. These sorts of continuous failures are why I gave up making bread 15+ years ago.

-Dave

for the most part and I'm very pleased with results.  In the past I was hit and miss trying to get a good crumb until now.  Everyone that samples this ciabatta say it has great flavor, make more! ha ha ha  I got it memorized as I bake bread two times a week, sometimes more.  Ciabatta is very good toasted with soup in winter and it will be a long time before I get tired of making this impressive crazy bread.

Thanks for the recipe,

Breadboard

I have made this recipe a few times with great success.

But for some reason today I cannot get the final dough ball to rise. I revived my starter with several feedings until it doubled. I then mixed it with all other ingredients except the sale for 2 minutes with a paddle. Let that stand for 10 minutes. Then beat the heck outta it till the dough just started coming off the bottm (it was already coming off the sides). I turned that out into a 3L measuring cup and let sit at 76-78F for, well, now 3 hours. My rise was negligible (it went from .8L to .9L in the measuring cup.

FWIW, after the 10 minute pause, I whipped it up forgetting to put the salt in. After it just started to clear the bottom, I took it outta the KA. Then I realized I hadn't put the salt in, so I added it and whipped it up again for another 1-2 minutes. I don't think I over-beat it.

I have put it into the fridge to retard overnight and will try to deal with it in the morning. Any ideas?

When I was trying to achieve great, large holes in my ciabatta, I found this recipe and loved the appearance of the bread. It is really beautiful and impressive. But, and you knew it was coming, the flavor is rather shallow and weakly developed. That should have been obvious to me by the title word "Quick." Quick does not have time to develop the necessary enzymes and acids to lead to a depth of nutty, wheaty richness. Try the ciabatta in "Artisan Baking" by Maggie Glezer called Craig Ponsford's Ciabatta. It takes more time (not work) and has a similar crumb and overall appearance. The difference is in the eating. Here is a rendition (that I have not checked for accuracy compared to the book) of the recipe: http://breadbasketcase.blogspot.com/2011/01/craig-ponsfords-ciabatta.html And yes, it is not a typo that you place 1/8 tsp of instant yeast into 1/2 cup water, and then measure only a 1/4 tsp yeasted water into the biga. Then you throw away the rest of the yeasted water! Try it, be patient with the biga, and enjoy! Incidentally I highly recommend Maggie's book. i have several very requested breads that I have copied or adapted from the book. It is beautifully illustrated, a pleasure to look at, and a good read to boot.

tried this with AP flour but I guess that doesn't make it.

After 45 mins, still a wad of goo in the bottom of my Concept 7

https://www.flickr.com/photos/food_pictures/16129580097/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/food_pictures/16127887538/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/food_pictures/16129576207/

I was looking for something different from my usual FWSY boules (and recent baguette obsession), and this looked like just the ticket. Amazing that you can get good bread so quickly, love it! Blog entry here:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/41630/jasons-quick-ciabatta

Thanks for posting LilDice!

VMG...  I too learned to bake Ciabatta bread from this recipe. I however found it to be to salty and @ 95% hydration  the crumb was too wet. So... I converted it to a sourdough recipe. I reduced the salt content to 2% of bread flour and reduced the water content from 95% to 80% and I added 5% fat/butter. 

350 grams of bread flour... 500 grams of flour when you add the flour in the starter. 

300 grams starter... 100% hydration. 

250 grams water... 80% hydration, when you add the water in the starter. 

10 grams salt... 2% of flour.

25 grams butter... 5% of flour.

Ciabatta usually has some fat content in the recipe. Jason left that out of this recipe. If you add 3% to 5% of fat, you will get better color to your crust, a better taste and a sheen to your crumb.

Stumbled upon this thread and decided to give it a try. Made a ciabatta with poolish a couple weeks ago and was amazed at the holes, taste and texture. Felt a little guilty eating white bread so decided to make this with 100% fresh milled whole wheat and see what would happen. I thought the flour from my kitchenaid mill attachment would probably be too course so didn't expect much to be honest.

I knew the whole wheat would need more water so upped the hydration to 100%- kind of scary! I used 50% red winter and 50% white winter berries. Followed the rest of the recipe exactly, including the kitchenaid kneading. It took 17 minutes for the dough to go from batter to ball on speed 5.

It was pretty tricky to handle of course being so wet, but manageable with some patience and planning. I was thrilled with the result. Texture and holes were best I have achieved even with bread flour. Nice stretchy chew and holes were shiny. Best tasting 100% whole wheat I have made to date- thanks for posting this!!!!

Stu

Been meaning to try this one for a while. No modifications, worked out perfectly. The only single issue were my shaping abilities and placing the last one (bottom right) on a cold pizza stone (not a great idea - not much of a rise). Tastes delicious.

Sorry if I missed it but are these baked on parchment on a sheet pan or transferred to a stone from a peel?

You turn your back for 5 minutes and look what happens...

 It is truly a "bread doughnut" or as my wife calls it, a "bonut"

I haven't made this bread in over a year, and got a craving for it. Looked around for my starter and hmm, couldn't find it. Luckily I had frozen some dried out starter so broke it out. Took 10g, crumbled it, added 10g water and BF. Let it sit for 24 hours, no activity, so another 20g w/BF, and another, finally some activity. One more dose of 20g w/BF and within 2 hours it had doubled.

So, I added 430g of BF, 405g water, and 15g salt. I like my ciabatta on the salty side. KA with paddle @ 1 for 5 mins, rest for 10 mins, then KA with paddle @ 6 for 5 mins. KA with hook @ 8 for 5 mins and it pulled off the sides and bottom (momentarily). Sprayed my rising bowl with Pam, turned the dough into it, and covered.

My triple rise took nearly 20 hours. Oiled a peel, divided the dough, then flipped them over onto parchment. Let them sit till the convection oven got to 500F, popped them in. In 15 minutes, voila, perfect ciabattas.

Thanks Stu!

I've made this four or five times now, and it's one of the harder to shape doughs I work with. It really is gloopy after the rise. But it ends up so delicious. It's got a little crisp to the crust, which is fairly thin and breaks away to a moist chewy crumb with large holes and a great pull. I haven't found the flavor lacking any more than any other same day bake. Today, I made the semolina version and thought the flavor was quite good, actually.

Thanks for the recipe. I love the way the dough transforms. And it did not hurt my precious Kitchen Aid!

I beat it till it pulled off the bowl properly, then I left it to rise, it didn't. So I beat it again, it didn't come off the bowl. So I added 20g of BF and 2 tsp's of yeast (I started with my SD starter) and beat it again for 60 mins...nothing happened, still soup.

Looking for comments on what I did wrong, and hopefully how to recover.

This has to be one of the easiest breads to make.    It always turns out and is absolutely fantastic!   I use cheap No Name [Canadian] AP flour and regular active yeast.  Crisp on the outside and chewy in the middle.   Delicious!    One of my go to breads now.  

For me, mixing time is ~10 minutes.  First rise (to triple) is maybe an hour.  It rises really fast for me.  I don't use steam or cover it at all, doesn't need it.

Now I have to figure out a WW version.   There is a grocer near me that sells a 100% WW Ciabatta that's incredible.  I can't even tell it's WW.  I need to replicate it!

This is a great, easy recipe for ciabatta. I took time out (about a half hour)for a coffee after I had finished the mixing stage, but it still worked great. Using a hook, I beat it for about 10 minutes on 6 in the kitchenaid and it was leaving the sides of the bowl clean. I have just one question: how do you come up with something like this? Where does the brilliant idea for extended beating come from? Beats me!

my first go at this one - made with my Ankarsrum Assistent - 18 minutes at high (but not max) speed - not as much oven spring as anticipated but very tasty 

First of all a big Grazie Mille!!! to Jason Molina and to the OP, LilDice, for sharing this recipe.  I have been baking bread for only 3 years or so, and right from the get-go I have been trying to make a true ciabatta with the proper crust, crumb, flavor and chew.  Until I tried this recipe, I had little success.  I made many loaves of otherwise tasty bread, some even shaped like “slippers,” but the true ciabatta, with its huge holes and characteristic chew, has eluded me.  I lived in Florence, Italy for a couple of years, so I got to try and enjoy “slippers” from many bakers in the city.  Those huge holes, the chewy crumb and the unique crust were to die for.  This recipe brings me not only to the right ballpark, but darn close to a home run.  Again, thank you.

In hindsight, I see that the chief problem was that I was using nowhere near the right baker’s percentage of water.  In this recipe, the water is 95 %  [475/500 x 100].  Virtually all of the so-called ciabatta recipes I had tried before had a hydration on the order of 65-75 baker’s percentage.  In some recipes which employed a poolish or biga, it was not possible to compute hydration accurately, but I doubt that any recipe which I’ve tried had more than 75% or so.

The only substantive difference between this recipe and the breads of Florence, Italy is the amount of salt.  In the Tuscan region of Italy, people prefer their bread senza sale, without or with very little salt.  It’s an acquired taste.  I’ve made this recipe twice following the instructions to the T, and the outcome has been splendid both times.  Next, I will try reducing the salt little by little as I continue my chase for the perfect Florentine ciabatta. 

Has anyone tried this as a sourdough with starter?

To those that advise using a kitchen scale, I would heartily endorse that.  In fact, I would suggest looking for one that does “baker’s percentage.” With that feature, you can replicate any bread recipe.  I found a battery operated digital scale with that feature on Amazon for under $30.

Hi.  Does anyone know if I can half this recipe to make one small loaf?   I only need enough ciabatta for two bruschetta for a bread starter. Cheers.

Can confirm 11 years later this recipe still works!

I baked it today using KAF bread flour and a poolish (10 oz water, 10 oz flour, ~1/21 tsp. instant yeast) that I fermented about 11 hours at room temp. 

I folded the risen dough in half after I poured it out of the tub because it was just too big. 

I didn't flip the two loafs below because they got stuck to the parchment paper

I did flip this loaf, however. It also proofed about 30 minutes longer because I couldn't fit it in the oven. 

I also shaped one into a round, which had smaller air holes but is a nice soft texture to bit into. 

I have made this wonderful loaf dozens of times but yesterday, due to time constraints, I almost completed the bulk furmentation (in a tall rubbermaid container) and then put it in the fridge overnight. I was worried it might affect the structure but no! It was perfect and I have fresh loaves to bring to a lunch. GREAT recipe! Thanks.

My oven only goes to 230C

Can this work in there ?

By all means, you should be able to bake at 230C.  That’s 446F.  The OP, as I recall,  starts off at 500F and notes that some bakers reduce temp to 450F after initial 10 minutes.  Starting off at 230C poses no significant deviation from the general theme here which is a high oven heat.  Yes, it may take a few minutes longer, but you will enjoy a great result!

Lildice, I also put my no knead bread in a cold cast iron pot and cold oven, gives it a boost in rising.

I gave it a go and was really impressed.  Little flavor lacking but outstanding all other aspects.  One thing I forgot to do was give it the 10 minute autolyse.  I will try next time and see if any difference.

Great instructions, perfect bread!  Thanks so much for this. 

Wow that is beautiful!  

https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67904/best-sd-discard-ciabatta-no-touch

Sorry. Weird double take. 

I had the most intense craving for ciabatta after not having it for many years and never attempting to bake it.

I milled up 325 grams of fresh flour and sifted it finely. This gave me about 250g of flour, then I added 250g all purpose because I ran out of bread. Did everything as described. By far the most wet, soft, delicate, almost seemingly insignificant dough I've ever touched. It's hard to describe the feeling of working with the floured, pillowy dough at the end, truly wonderful.

Baked at 475F for 18 minutes with steam on a baking stone with parchment. It's not a work of art like some people's, but sifting fresh flour really helps with form. I had no problem getting a triple sized rise.

IMG_1026 2.JPG

 Hi - do any of the freshloaf community still follow this thread? Just wanted to say that this recipe is a game changer. My dough did not climb the dough hook. I waited patiently for it but after more than 25 minutes of kneading, it was clearing the sides and bottoms of the bowl, but not climbing, I said "stop".

Deleted

 Awesome bread

Bread baking has become my nemesis ever since I moved to Denver. At 6,000 ft. my bread always. ALWAYS collapses like a popped balloon on the second rise. It gets good loft when rising, but when I move it to the oven, it deflates before my eyes. I have tried everything. I have even consulted with the local county extension agent. I would love to make this ciabatta with semolina, but I am hoping someone here lives at a similar altitude and has had success. Does anyone have advice?