Seeking advice regarding "flying roof"/"attic" and mild gumminess in 100% rye sourdough bread
Greetings. Not too long ago I posted about some challenges with my 100% rye sourdough bread baking. There has definitely been some improvement but now I am trying to troubleshoot some remaining problems. Here is my previous post if anyone is interested:
The current problems are mild gumminess and "flying roof" or "attic" where the top of the loaf is partially separated from the rest. This was the previous problem but has improved significantly and now I'm trying to put the "nail in the coffin" to get this recipe down well.
I believe there are two variables contributing to both of these problems. My previous post had detailed information on my recipe (or lack thereof) and baking process. These variables are:
1. Ratio of rye/starter/water (this variable includes hydration/thickness/wetness of dough)
2. Time of second fermentation
My questions
For the 1st variable, I think I may be using too much starter relative to the amount of rye flour. I think the hydration/how much water is in the dough is in a good proportion but I am wondering: could using an excessive amount of starter relative in proportions to rye flour cause either gumminess or the attic?
For the 2nd variable, I am wondering if I may be either over or under fermenting. Is it possible that this was overfermented which caused either problem? Can underfementation cause either of these?
Thanks in advance. I can be slow to respond as I live without internet up here in Alaska. Here is my previous post if anyone is interested:
PS - my previous post had a good video someone posted of not using any kind of recipe or measuring ingredients for baking 100% rye sourdough. Great educational watch.
The photos suggest that the loaves were seriously over-fermented. While the pentosan gels that give rye bread its structure can tolerate some expansion, they are quite fragile. Once they exceed their limits, the bubbles deflate and the loaves collapse. Looks can be deceiving in that the top surface can sometimes remain intact even though the paste beneath it has quietly expired.
So, what to do?
First, recognize that fermentation in a rye paste often runs much faster than it does in a wheat dough. A one hour final fermentation may be twice as long as is needed. Or more.
Second, ignore the clock. It can’t tell you anything about what’s going on in the bread pans.
Third, learn to “read” your bread's condition. If you see any bubbles starting to break on the loaf's surface, even if they are just pinhole size, get the bread into the oven NOW! Do not delay. Breaking bubbles are a sign that the paste is becoming over-fermented.
Fourth, dock the bread just before it goes into the oven. You can use a skewer, a toothpick, a knitting needle, or something similar to make a series of one-inch deep holes in the top of the loaf. These will serve to break up any larger bubbles that may have formed beneath the crust.
Fifth, if you can, locate some bread tins that are taller than they are wide or that are square in cross section. You will find it easier to gauge how much the paste expands during final fermentation.
Sixth, don’t push fermentation to its maximum extent. Given the fragility of rye paste, it's better to let oven spring drive the final expansion of the bread as it bakes.
Once you get your hydration worked out, these tips ought to help you get closer to your goal.
Paul
Paul, thank you very much for the detailed response. Super helpful to diagnose the problem.
I think what is happening here is I did use too much starter, already overfermented from the first ferment, in proportion to flour. I believe then I let the second ferment run too long even though it was only 3 or 4 hours. The other tips you gave me though will be helpful to optimize the bake though.
Take good care.
I second everything Paul has said—it is excellent advice
I also have some more info on rye sourdough from Dietmar Kappl at the Austrian bread blog Homebaking.at that might help guide your starter quantity.
https://www.homebaking.at/falsche-versaeuerung/:
https://www.homebaking.at/brotfehler-teil-1-misch-und-roggenbrote/: