Where is the problem?
Hello everyone
I've just made a sour dough bread but the result is awful. I don't know what happened. Could you help me with your opinion?
The starter was a biga with a big percentage over the whole flour.
biga whole wheat flour/ whole rye flour 825gr
300w wheat flour 563gr
whole grain wheat flour 187
water 500 gr
The bulk fermentation had a little bit more temperature than usual (23 celsius degrees / 73,5 ferenheit), but I let the bread the same time as usual. The issue for me was to know just with my eyes if it was time to stop it and start shaping because it was inside a big tray with oil to fold the bread each 30/30/90 minutes.
I think It could be more time than necessary in the bulk fermentation.
After I shaped the bread, I waited 2 hours. The bread grew until the first hour, but then stopped growing, and didn't reached the expected height.
These are the pictures of the bread. It had a gummy crumb, very dense. It hasn't an acid taste.
Could you help me about with happened?
Thanks in advance
You didn't say what the times were, nor the amount of rye in the biga, so we will have to make some guesses. Was the biga hydration 100%? Have you made this before? What did the dough feel like - was it wet, dry, very sticky, did it build up elasticity when you did the later stretch-and-fold sessions?
Based on the picture, the shaping of the loaf had a problem with the different rolled parts not merging well. The impression is that the dough was too dry, although perhaps it was only that you didn't press the dough firmly enough.
Gumminess could be a sign of underbaking, but if there was a lot of rye that could have contributed. You also may have needed to let the baked loaf rest for a longer time before slicing it.
Based on your description of the loaf ceasing to rise partway through proofing, the yeast may have used up all the available sugars and other foods. This could happen because of a long fermentation of a biga that contained a large part of the total flour.
TomP
Hello Tom
I have made this recipe before and it turned out well, but this time I have varied the quantities of the ingredients to make a larger loaf. Also, I always do the second fermentation in the fridge, except this time when I baked the same day.
The biga has been in the refrigerator for 3 days at about 5 celsius / 41 farenheit degrees. The hydration of the biga is close to 50%. Take 200g of whole rye, 200g of whole wheat and 250g of water.
The dough was sticky when kneaded. I made the folds, but admittedly I made them a little differently. I don't know if the oil prevented it from mixing well and that's why the separation you see was created. Which is not merged.
During cooking, it spent 25 minutes at 250 degrees Celsius / 482 Fahrenheit and then 70 minutes at about 190 degrees Celsius / 374 Fahrenheit.
I think a good reason could be what you said about him already consuming all the sugars and not having any more food. I think I spent too much time on that block fermentation since the temperature was a hair higher than usual, as I mentioned in the previous post.
Perhaps if I had let the block ferment less, the second fermentation would have gone better, but visually, in this bread that has seeds and is in a tray with oil instead of being a bread without seeds and put in a bowl, as usual, It is not easy for me to detect when to end the block fermentation because I do not easily distinguish when there is enough air to form the piece.
Thank you!
I would have expected your biga to seem fairly stiff, since it was only 62% hydration with whole grain flours. Did it seem the same as for your other bakes of this bread? And is 3 days the same duration you used in the past?
Also, you call it a "biga", but your first post mentioned "sourdough". I wonder if your terminology might be different from mine. The usage that I usually read is that a "biga" uses a little packaged yeast to develop its leavening power while with "sourdough" the leavening comes from a naturally developed starter instead of commercial yeast. One difference is that a sourdough starter will be more acidic without it the rye in the biga would have more tendency to deteriorate. That's why I am asking about the feel of the biga as you went to mix it with the rest of the ingredients.
TRUE. I changed the terms in both messages to refer to pre-ferment.
I used what I call biga, which is a solid preferment, in which I did not use commercial yeast. Just sourdough.
I usually put 20 grams of sourdough, 200 grams of whole rye flour, 200 grams of whole wheat flour and 240 grams of water. I usually leave it for two or three days and it goes well.
It's true that this time I took it to the limit of three days and on the last day I had it out of the fridge for about 4/5 hours before kneading.
The smell was a little sour and the touch was perhaps a little softer, but I don't know if it was because it spent 4/5 hours warming up...
I like bread to be acidic and that's why I wanted to take the prefermento/biga to the limit.
All right, I understand. I think that your levain (I think that most people on this list would call it that instead of a "biga") just fermented too long. It got fairly acidic, and probably used up too much of the available yeast food. The protein might have started to degrade, too.
I suggest that you try refrigerating the bulk ferment rather than the levain. Or refrigerate the shaped loaf. That usually produces a more sour bread. Let them get fermentation under way, and then refrigerate. You could still age your levain in the refrigerator, but not as long.
If you don't want to make these changes because they seem too different, just do what you are thinking about and shorten the levain's time in the refrigerator somewhat.
It's also possible that the flours you use are marginal in their ability to hold up during your long process. A different kind of flour might turn out to be better, You would have to experiment, if you are able to get different flours where you are.
Yup - no yeast left. As usual - I would work on the starter first. Go from there. Enjoy!
Hi Davey
It could ran out of food from leaving the bulk fermentation for so long.
The thing is that starter was strong in the bulk fermentation, but I couldn't see when to stop burn fermentation at the right time.
Thank you!
If it doesn't rise - the yeast is dead. Work on it - you do have to work at it for a spell. Enjoy!
Ok. Thank you! Next time will be better (or not :P)
My wild guess is also that the stiff starter/preferment was not active at all. Not enough yeast, too much acid. 20g sourdough + 200g whole rye flour + 200g whole wheat flour + 240g water straight to the fridge cannot have a lot of activity. Even if the 20g SD was super active.
If for some reason the temperature in your fridge dropped to 4ºC (instead of 5ºC), then during 3 days the microorganisms were almost inactive. Generally speaking there is no SD activity at temperatures <= 4ºC. There are for sure some exceptions, but I wouldn't count on them.