November 3, 2024 - 4:48am
Bread very brown
Hi there. Tried making a loaf yesterday after a long break. Decided to use fresh yeast instead of dried( I doubled the amount given for dried yeast). The bread was tough to knead and tasted ok but didn’t rise much. It also was way darker than I wanted, ended up looking like a whole meal loaf. What did I do wrong, was perhaps my water too warm? Also what’s the best place to prove dough when it’s cold, in an oven that been heated then turned off, maybe?
cheers
cheers
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Ingredients? Method used?
Warm place to bulk ferment is someplace that can maintain about 82F. Oven -as described- but watch the temp. On top of the refrigerator-heat rises from the cooling coils. Under an incandescent desk lamp on the counter but covered so it doesn't dry out. On a towel covered heating pad with a towel over. In a picnic cooler with jars of warm water surrounding the bowl with the dough. Use a Brod and Taylor dough proofer. Look around using the "search" box. It has been discussed many times over the years.
Crumb look very underfermented/underproofed. Also looks wet. Was it sliced before it was fully cooled.
Thanks for the reply. I used the recipe from the river cottage book. Normally my breads fine but this dough was very tough. Thanks for the idea of proving it above the fridge. Yes I sliced it too early hence looking like it does. I think I’ll go back to dried yeast next time.
Not everyone has every book. Still need ingredients and method. Is THIS the recipe? ( "Simple white bread")
I was trying to upload a photo of it but the file is too large. Yes that is the recipe. Mine actually said 20g of salt. As soon as I had the dry ingredients in a bowl and added the water the dough felt ‘off’ and not easily pliable like it usually is. It was just hard to knead which is unusual (hence me wondering about the yeast, which was fresh yeast bought that day)
thanks again
Pretty sure it needs a bit more water. I have seen a Richard bertinet recipe that is basically the same but asks for 350ml or water which is quite a bit more, might give that a go.
According to KA, 10g of dried yeast would convert to 30g of fresh. You used 20g, so maybe not enough yeast.
The darkness of that loaf is weird. What kind of flour did you use?
I have never seen bread flour turn that dark. Are you sure it was all white flour?
Sorry I wrote that confusingly. I halved the recipe so it was 10g fresh yeast. And yes it’s normal bread flour, so I don’t know what happened 😂
The yeast was still a little scant at 10g, should have been 15, at least according to KA. I've never used fresh yeast.
Was the bread flour in the bag white?
With someone troubleshooting one of their first sourdough's using a less than ready starter. Haven't seen it with a yeasted dough.
Maillard reaction turns the crust brown. Do you think too much sugar due to under fermented dough and the little rise managed to have the same effect throughout the loaf?
Temperatures around 350 deg F/175C are supposedly needed for Maillard browning and the loaf interior couldn't possibly have gotten anywhere near there. Must be something else. Molasses or barley syrup could have done it but you'd think the OP would know the difference between them and sugar (!)
I thought about the lighting conditions but the dark appearance in the photo didn't look like it was solely about the lighting. At another look, though, just maybe it could be the lighting.
I'm at a loss then. I have seen exactly this and it wasn't a lighting issue. It might appear to us like that, in a photo, if it was a lighting issue but the OP would see it as it is.
Let me see if I can find that other comment on breadtopia on this very topic.
EDIT: here it is Tom.
In the US we can get "white" whole wheat flour. Stores that sell King Arthur's products may carry it, for example. The flour is milled from white wheat instead of red. The flour looks a little lighter than the usual red wheat flour. It bakes up much the same as red wheat.
The photo looks so much like an under-risen, underbaked whole wheat loaf that I could believe that the baker grabbed the wrong sack of flour, saw the word "White" in prominent letters, and proceeded thinking it was white patent flour. It's the kind of mixup I've done myself, grabbing the wrong flour. I once added some masa harina instead of AP that way. I noticed the mistake before putting all of it in.
I'm not claiming that this kind of mixup happened in this case. But the loaf looks as if it had, doesn't it?. A good mystery!
What is it called? Occam's razor? Simple explanation is normally the correct one?
I've used "white whole wheat' before and the company who sells it in the UK calls it "golden wheat". The poster on breadtopia is from Hungary so i'm not sure what they have available there. However it does look very similar to white whole wheat. Who knows what companies are selling. Often a bag of wheat flour is coming from more than one source. I highly doubt a generic store bought flour is of single origin and variety of wheat. Perhaps that particular bag does indeed have a high percentage of white whole wheat.
I've been looking for similar questions and perhaps some scientific answer how a white flour can bake into what looks like a brown bread and nothing comes up. So why not this answer?
Ok…. So I live in Austria and there are loooooots of different flour. This one said ‘bread flour’ on it but on closer inspection https://www.interspar.at/shop/lebensmittel/spar-naturpur-bio-weizen-brotmehl-typ-1600/p/2020004062161?srsltid=AfmBOookWwOailCZj94meiuTbgle-d3w48NniiBdUEEla4hm9McD57u2 (please use a translating program- my screenshots don’t work here) it is some kind of white flour with a high mineral content hence the dark break. I did wonder as the ‘bread flour’ wording on the packet is brown not white but the flour looks white…. I also agree that I need to prove the bread better but keep in mind that I haven’t baked for a long time and I need to start somewhere. The bread actually tastes quite nice, just isn’t like white bread more like almost a rye bread. Thanks for all the replies!
The translated product page calls the flour "Organic wheat bread flour type 1600". According to this page:
https://www.whereiserinna.com/2017/10/30/how-to-buy-flour-in-austria/
it's either whole wheat or near whole wheat. Even red WW flour doesn't look very dark just as loose flour. If I saw some flour I thought was white but was actually WW I might wonder why it looked a little dark but I wouldn't instantly realize it was whole grain.
So the bread was unwittingly whole wheat instead of white. The dough would have felt more like a sticky paste than a white dough, depending the the flour and amount of water, unless it got a lot of kneading and maybe even then. Tossing flour on the surface would have made shaping easier if the dough was still sticky by that time.
Even so, unless it came out too wet and gummy, I would expect it to taste good, which Ed007 tells us is the case.
Thanks all for the replies
yes it was gummy and a bit strange but tastes good as you say! Sometimes things don’t go as you expect but that’s life isn’t it. I’m from England and we don’t have the same system/variety of flour.
You can get White Whole Wheat in the UK
https://flour.co.uk/product/golden-wholegrain-bread-flour-4/
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Yep, Typ 1600 is whole wheat flour. The 1600 refers to the ash content (1.60%, 0% moisture basis). You want either Typ 700 (similar to American bread flour) or Typ 550 (AP flour) for a white loaf. I've spent a lot of time noodling around the German-language sites, especially for rye bread recipes, and see these designations in the recipes.
Mini Oven is in Austria, isn't she? Yo....Mini!
This is good to know…. Who is this?
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/user/mini-oven
Thanks!
Hey! It's great that you're back to baking! Using fresh yeast instead of dry is fine, but you need to remember that their activity can vary. By doubling the amount, you might not have considered that fresh yeast can be more 'powerful.' That could have affected the rise of the dough.
I will keep that in mind. Yeast quantities seem quite confusing and I’m not sure what type of dry yeast it is. In general thanks for everyone’s replies I’m suprised and pleased to have so many.
...you watch the dough and not the clock it doesn't really matter how much yeast you use.
Very profound. Advice noted :)
It is the mantra of bread baking! Recipes are always just guides. First and foremost you give the dough all the time it needs.
Bingo Enjoy!
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(w700)