October 25, 2024 - 8:49am
First Rye Loaf
I have been baking sourdough bread for about 5 years now and want to try my first mostly rye loaf. I plan to use about 80% rye, 100% rye levain, and somewhere around 75% hydration. Most of the recipes I have looked at have you mix all the ingredients together and autolyse for 1/2 to 1 hour then start your bulk fermentation and stretch and fold process..
I have always combined only my flours and water for the autolyse stage and added the levain, salt, and additional water after autolyse stage is complete. Does it make any difference which procedure you use when making a higher content rye sourdough loaf?
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I'd like to know the recipes you're looking at, as I've always found it more beneficial to pre-ferment a significant percentage of the rye flour rather than to do an autolyse.
By the way, in case you're interested, here's a fantastic 70% rye recipe (I've made it many times using whole rye and it's truly revelatory): https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/71128/hansjoakims-favorite-70-rye-revisiting-old-friend
Enjoy taking the high-rye road.
Rob
I always pre-ferment although I usually call it levain. The recipe you posted is similar to what I intend to do. I always mix by hand instead of using a mixer but the process is similar. Thanks for the link it was useful in making up my final recipe.
Second this recommendation, it is a great bread and do take note of the comments on that page discussing the methods to follow which may be a little different to what you're used to with wheat baking.
I don't think rye would benefit from autolyse. There is no gluten to speak of in rye, so there is no need to let it soak on its own.
I always thought autolyse helped in the absorption of water along with starting to develop some gluten. I as still using a little over half bread flour in my recipe so there should be some gluten to develop. I want to make sure the water gets evenly absorbed. If this recipe works out well I will probably increase the amount of rye next time and cut the autolyse time. I do a series of stretch and folds to help develop gluten and smooth the final sough out.
As recommended above, I'd rather ferment for longer (or preferment) than autolyse it...
No point to autolyse rye.
This has become one the favorite 100% ryes around here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTQK9H5Sl28
Convenient overnight preferment.
it's great that you are committed to your process, PNWg (though in your responses, I see that you have apparently backed off from the idea of 80% rye to less than 50%.)
The higher the amount of rye one uses, the more the process becomes about transforming starches and the less it involves developing any other characteristics through kneading. Also, as I'm sure you know, high ryes tend to need a bit of time after baking before slicing. The texture & flavor often develop & change over several days.
Enjoy the journey. And please share some snaps & descriptions so we can all learn.
Cheers.
Rob
As a couple reference points for a ~80% whole rye sourdough, I'd look at Hammelman's 80% Sourdough Rye with Scald (p. 235) - the scald is optional. I'd also look at Maurizio's Sourdough 90-Rye Bread Recipe over on The Perfect Loaf (and just adjust flour %'s as you wish).
I've been working on this a bit lately, using whole khorasan instead of a strong white flour...here's where I'm at...using a bit of brotgewurtz:
Here is a link to a page at homebaking.at that discusses the percentage of rye flour that should be pre-fermented with respect to rye/wheat flour ratio:
https://www.homebaking.at/reines-roggenbrot/
The post is in German but browser translators do a pretty good job of the translation. There is also some good info about the 2-stage Detmold rye sour process.
Yeah, it definitely matters what method you use for making sourdough bread, especially with a lot of rye. Rye flour is way more hydrophilic than wheat, so it absorbs water better. That’s why paying attention to autolyse is important. It helps develop the gluten and improves the bread's texture.
Are you sure you're not a bot 😁?
Sure there are some rye recipes with a short autolyse, but in general as King Arthur says,
"Don't use an autolyse with sourdough rye bread. Because rye flour doesn't develop gluten the way wheat flour does, and also ferments more quickly, adding an autolyse can cause the dough to deteriorate."
I bake an 80% whole rye sourdough weekly now. I use Hamelman's recipe and formula that does not use an autolyse stage. Every step went much faster than a whole wheat sourdough. I have a post here 80 percent Sourdough Rye with a Rye-Flour Soaker | The Fresh Loaf
Cheers,
Gavin
Some bakers like to add levain during the autolyse stage to kickstart fermentation earlier, which can affect the flavor and texture of the bread.
How many bots on here?
Too many.
TomP
Concur.