I happen to mostly be doing variations of things I've posted on before, or a few are in the experimental or learning stages, which I wouldn't inflict on people yet.
I have just started visiting TFL again after a long absence. For the last few days, the website keeps locking up before I get to see any posts. The rest of our Internet searches go through.... I just chalked it up to some sort of glitch in the Matrix. 😉 It does seem better today....
Hi! Me too. I used to post and read at TFL all the time, still is one of my favorite sites of all time. A few years ago I switched to gmail and then got busy and then got a major life change (cancer, ok now though thank God) and haven't even visited in a looong time. I will tell my story on the intro page about how my current doctor and I met on TFL years ago. I think Floyd will like this one.
I've been doing some gardening that's consumed a fair amount of time. But the tomatoes and beans are now planted, so maybe I'll have some time for new posts.
Good to know some of us are still beavering away in the bakery.... It's true there's little point in posting if you are making your standard routine bakes.
I too had some website errors the other day - some kind of certificate error, I think; seems to be OK now.
Regarding weeds, well it's slugs that are our bête noire, or should I say bête grise, as I believe that it is the little grey ones that eat your plants, not the big black ones. But maybe you don't have slugs over the pond?
Re: slugs. We have them in NA, but speaking only for myself in southern Ontario, generally they are not a problem because the weather is not wet enough. I do occasionally find empty snail shells in my asparagus patch, though never any sign of damage from them. Have you tried diatomaceous earth (and egg shells) for the slugs?
There have been some technical glitches lately. I've been trying to stay on top of it but I am travelling and have had minimal access to a laptop. Debugging on my phone over less reliable internet is not impossible but it is difficult.
Traffic always declines here during the warm months in the Northern Hemisphere when it is nice to pursue either outdoor activities or, for those who live in hot environments, cooler hobbies.
I still have not spent the time to make the site work well on phones and most of us to the majority of our computing on mobile devices now. Posting here is just not as convenient as sharing a picture on SnapChat or Instagram and calling it a day.
Real traffic is flat or dropping on many/most social websites as far as I can tell. The bots, the trolls, the really strongly opinionated people who overwhelm most online discourse, and the bad actors have just made the internet a much less kind place than it was a few years back when the community here was at its strongest. In general I find more and more people, myself including, just don't want to share much of anything online any more, here or elsewhere. It feels like there are more potential downsides to sharing anything personal -- even something as mundane as one's recent bakes -- out in the open than there are benefits. :(
At least those are the trends I've been seeing. And, all that said, the community here remains extremely helpful and kind.
Lance to be honest im a bit disappointed in the membership the fact is the greater majority are happy to join ask questions or want comment on their breads but cant even fill out their basic profile even on this very page there is just albacore ( Lance from Lancashire UK ) tpassin retired engineer VA USA . at least the responders to Lance's question there were real members with profiles gavinc in Victoria AUS, who is also interested in red wheat in Australia like me . justkeepswimming WY USA and welcome back too, alcophile Wisconsin who is a retired chemist and also know is a train buff like me, check out his avatar. So for me i have decided to only bother with those that can be bothered!
I don't think that will do it. My impression is that these posts are usually made by people who have copy-pasted the chatbot output, and sometimes added those advertising links. Those people can easily fill in one or two spurious details.
For me I have decided to only bother with those that can be bothered by using correct capitalization and punctuation, or capitalization and punctuation at all! LOL
For me, social media participation is a seasonal spare-time activity. I'm down to TFL and YT these days. It is already too hot to fire up an oven of any kind in my unventilated kitchen. So all baking will happen on the porch for the next several months. Still getting that set up. Not having a stable-temp environment also puts a pause on a couple experiments I had recently started. And then, those lists I made during the winter of house and yard maintenance needs must now be attended to.
So... like others have said, I'm only doing remakes, and for efficiency, mostly in a bread machine.
The good news is, there is no suffering involved... the breads are still fantastic!
I’m still around Lance and still posting to my blog. I’ve just pulled some baguettes out of the oven that I will post. They are my tried and true formula with some minor fermentation tweaks that continue from bake to bake. I hope others will start or continue to post on TFL.
Over the years, the number of posts tend to wax and wane. There's usually a surge when some new book or bread or technique or equipment appears, as people try out the new thing and discuss it. People come and go, as well. If a once-prolific poster drops out due to death, ill health, or changing interests, that can create a slump in traffic. Depending on when you found TFL, the names jmonkey, ZolaBlue, bwraith, proth5, smugmug, zita, ars pistorica, or dabrownman, may or may not be familiar to you. They (and numerous others) were all prolific posters who are no longer active here. Sometimes, external events (such as the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020) cause unanticipated spikes in new TFL members and posts. And let’s not forget that TFL was once almost unique in its focus and content. There are a lot more bread sites today that draw traffic which might otherwise go to TFL.
In my own case, I’m baking less in retirement than I did previously. A lot of the things I bake are favorites that I’ve blogged about before, so I feel I’ve said as much as I can about them without boring you or me. It's a bit weird how something as simple as no longer packing a lunch each day has affected my baking.
TLDR: Eh, it happens. This lull will probably be followed by a surge.
Strange - I hardly ever see a captcha, and the few times I do I haven't had any problems with it. I usually stay logged in to the site for long times, and I guess it doesn't arise. This is the only site I stay logged in to. I never do that with any other site.
I check the site semi frequently, however there is a loading problem that started perhaps a couple of weeks ago. It has been consistent, which indicates an actual problem and not number of visitors or web traffic. It appears related to the ads, which have become more numerous, and the placement of the ads, which on iPad load at both the top and the bottom of the page before the page opens. I haven't seen this on any other site.
I have been working on sweet lievito madre to the exclusion (almost) of other forms of leavening. I've had a few breakthroughs with it, and also with techniques of making panettone, but I know that this topic isn't interesting to most people..... I did just bake the most amazing chocolate panettone, using the Italian team's winning recipe from last years panettone world championship. I have been buying a variety of shokupan pans and seasoning them, which while necessary isn't very post-worthy, ....😂
Thanks for all your comments. It was heartwarming to get such a big response. It shows to me that TFL is still an active breadmaking community with a great set of members.
I still check TFL every few days to see if anything interesting has appeared, and if so I might even occasionally reply if I can be helpful :) But I rarely post myself nowadays, not much time for experimenting and trying new things that would be worth sharing... Mostly just bake some bread with whatever flour I picked up last at the shop and see how it goes. Usually it's OK, sometimes better, sometimes worse :)
But I am still learning clearly - I am now trying to push bulk fermentation a bit more than I used to, and I think I get better results.
I think the only Switzerland-specific flour is Ruchmehl, not commonly found even in Germany, and that I tried from the very beginning.
A recent trial for me was Halbweiss - half-weight - flour. It's much lighter than Ruchmehl. Very nice and creamy sort of colour, and slightly wheaty taste, very easy to work with!
It seems that there are fewer mega-posters lately and there are a LOT of posters that ask a question and follow up for a few times but drop out before there is any resolution or solution achieved. It is frustrating to offer suggestions and never find out if anything was effective.
I pop on here now and then but I am baking much less these days. I have my favs but, being on calorie restrictions and loving bread makes it a 'dangerous' food to have around. I may have to make an exception this week-my chive flowers are in full, luxurious bloom. I love making a nice French loaf with chive blossoms incorporated. Mmmmm....
I also think people are becoming more text oriented rather than conversation oriented. Short,fast bullets. My adult children think that texting multiple times/day is considered a conversation. Not the same as a real conversation where subjects meander and are talked about and we learn about other's lives and opinions and interests.
are my new interests, among others. I've become increasingly annoyed by the amount of work it takes to bake a loaf of bread. I want to break free from the endlessly repetitive, trivial tasks that seem to trap me in the kitchen forever. I'm pretty much bored with baking and need new activities to bring some excitement. I still bake out of necessity, but now I just want to get it over with, let alone blog about it.
Enforced absence on my side, Lance, due to lots of time pressure from the day job and also some travel abroad for family and work reasons.
In addition, I have not done any bakes of note during this time, sticking to more functional re-runs of well-established ones for my repertoire as a way of 'putting bread on the table' and keeping the SD starter in shape.
Hope to catch-up with post and comments and experiment a little now I have some more time.
I've noticed a lot of forums changing. I've also noticed a whole lot of younger people are glued to their social media, so presumably they don't do forums as much. I used to be here seven or so years ago, then, like others, ended up with major life changes. It's only now that I've stabilized enough to even get back to baking bread. That, and the ridiculous prices for my little budget. So kind of a necessity.
Huge kudos to Floyd for not only starting this site, but for keeping it running and current all these years. How many places are there for community discussion and help, right?
So I used to check in on this freshlove at 78 years ago. I'm pretty sure I made an account but never really posted except a couple of questions and I did notice that it was a great source for a lot of information cuz people were posting all the time. I haven't been on in a while because I... well very sweet.... but couple weeks ago I wanted to make comments and I forgot all my login information so I created into account. But like you I realize that nobody's really posting or talking much anymore. One of the things I have been doing a lot of posting and discussion a lot is on bread forums in reddit. I've been using that for the past two and a half years for the bread forms as well as the KitchenAid and equipment forms. I was actually reminded a few weeks back about the fresh loaf which is what brought me here to do research about something. And talking with some people on that form about the lack of involvement on the fresh loaf, they all have a lot of different reasons for not really coming to this site anymore, but one thing I noticed consistently with everybody is that it's not a very user friendly site for smartphones as well as the fact that annoys the crap out of them that they can't edit a post after they've sent it, regardless spelling errors or grammar things like that. And there's no moderator that is available to help them. The not being able to edit a post is something that I share and frustration. It's the first site that I been to where it's not allowed. Some sites give you a time limit of like 15 minutes after you post to do edits but I thought that was bad but not being allowed to do it's horrible. Bad enough I got to figure out what the hell to click on when I want to get to a recent posted somebody made. And how pages are sometimes really slow. But the main thing that makes people not want to post is the lack of new and fresh posts. It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy when you see a site that's dying it's just going to continue because people don't want to post or be involved in Old stagnant forms that nobody's messaging on. Heck I even had one guy get mad at me for commenting on a very old thread which is kind of ridiculous because there's no such thing as a bed comment to anything that's new or old. Especially if it's something that exists already you shouldn't start a new post. A lot of good information on this site but the worst is is most people who we're posting three four years ago or unable to be reached or don't check here anymore when you make a comment. So we can never get a follow up to something that was posted a long time ago but luckily some of you guys are at least that's my experience that most people respond when I post something but I don't know other people I spoke to say they migrated away from here to other sources such as Reddit that are more active.
When I do a search these days, I'm seeing that the big search engines are dead. I'm learning other engines, where the results are across the entire system, not just paid-for or "hyped" sites. Reddit often shows up with answers for bread questions, but I'm not a member of Reddit and don't choose to be.
Some of the information answering questions is useful, but I wouldn't say it's particularly informative. And I don't agree that Fresh Loaf is "dying." It's a wide-ranging forum, with a massive archive. Baking isn't going to get obsolete, after all: flour is still flour, water is still water, and how they come together is pretty much the same as 10,000 years ago.
But places like Reddit don't have that kind of long-term archival structure. It's a social-media site, after all, designed for quick comments on momentary events. Nor is it designed for instructional help, or full recipes. That calls for a blog, or some place that takes longer posting.
As for not being able to edit, I've never found that to be true really. When I first write something I can choose "Preview," which hasn't yet uploaded the content. If I'm the thread originator, I'm pretty sure there's an "Edit" tab/button if I'm logged in.
If I've made a typo or some big mistake, I believe much of that can be changed. What I wonder about, though, is a post with truly wrong or outdated information. I don't think any post can be deleted entirely. Not a big deal, and commenting on one's own article is allowed.
I'm old enough to remember when conversation was a common past-time. I was amused when Twitter came out, offering 126 characters (not words) for speaking. That had to increase to, I think around 256 now, but I don't know and don't care. I'm not interested in X or Twitter either.
The old truth still stands: If you aren't interested in what you're viewing, then don't view it. Right? We still choose the information we allow to take up our attention, and a larger forum is another alternative to shorter formats like Reddit. As for being "phone friendly," that's utterly fine with me! I'd just as soon use a phone to make a phone call.
I happen to mostly be doing variations of things I've posted on before, or a few are in the experimental or learning stages, which I wouldn't inflict on people yet.
TomP
But stay tuned ... I'll post on a new bake later today... someone might find it interesting.
I have just started visiting TFL again after a long absence. For the last few days, the website keeps locking up before I get to see any posts. The rest of our Internet searches go through.... I just chalked it up to some sort of glitch in the Matrix. 😉 It does seem better today....
Lately I have had on and off problems getting the site to load. Spin forever. Try later and she comes right up. Seems ok now.
Hi! Me too. I used to post and read at TFL all the time, still is one of my favorite sites of all time. A few years ago I switched to gmail and then got busy and then got a major life change (cancer, ok now though thank God) and haven't even visited in a looong time. I will tell my story on the intro page about how my current doctor and I met on TFL years ago. I think Floyd will like this one.
I tend to repeat formulas I've already posted about in previous years. I only post on new things I tryout. I've become a bit of a lurker :)
Also, I've noticed that a few people use an AI to comment which is often incorrect. Annoying!
Gavin
Very annoying! Or, as ChatGPT put it when I asked:
Yes, all of that. I've been reporting most of them, but some of them have stayed around.
I've been doing some gardening that's consumed a fair amount of time. But the tomatoes and beans are now planted, so maybe I'll have some time for new posts.
P.S. The weeds just won't stop growing, though! 🙁
Good to know some of us are still beavering away in the bakery.... It's true there's little point in posting if you are making your standard routine bakes.
I too had some website errors the other day - some kind of certificate error, I think; seems to be OK now.
Regarding weeds, well it's slugs that are our bête noire, or should I say bête grise, as I believe that it is the little grey ones that eat your plants, not the big black ones. But maybe you don't have slugs over the pond?
Lance
Re: slugs. We have them in NA, but speaking only for myself in southern Ontario, generally they are not a problem because the weather is not wet enough. I do occasionally find empty snail shells in my asparagus patch, though never any sign of damage from them. Have you tried diatomaceous earth (and egg shells) for the slugs?
There are a bunch of factors, I think.
At least those are the trends I've been seeing. And, all that said, the community here remains extremely helpful and kind.
Lance to be honest im a bit disappointed in the membership the fact is the greater majority are happy to join ask questions or want comment on their breads but cant even fill out their basic profile even on this very page there is just albacore ( Lance from Lancashire UK ) tpassin retired engineer VA USA . at least the responders to Lance's question there were real members with profiles gavinc in Victoria AUS, who is also interested in red wheat in Australia like me . justkeepswimming WY USA and welcome back too, alcophile Wisconsin who is a retired chemist and also know is a train buff like me, check out his avatar. So for me i have decided to only bother with those that can be bothered!
Derek, perhaps part of the membership process should be a requirement to fill in those profile details? Perhaps this would help to stop the bots?
Another job for Floyd!
Lance
I don't think that will do it. My impression is that these posts are usually made by people who have copy-pasted the chatbot output, and sometimes added those advertising links. Those people can easily fill in one or two spurious details.
For me I have decided to only bother with those that can be bothered by using correct capitalization and punctuation, or capitalization and punctuation at all! LOL
For me, social media participation is a seasonal spare-time activity. I'm down to TFL and YT these days.
It is already too hot to fire up an oven of any kind in my unventilated kitchen. So all baking will happen on the porch for the next several months. Still getting that set up.
Not having a stable-temp environment also puts a pause on a couple experiments I had recently started.
And then, those lists I made during the winter of house and yard maintenance needs must now be attended to.
So... like others have said, I'm only doing remakes, and for efficiency, mostly in a bread machine.
The good news is, there is no suffering involved... the breads are still fantastic!
I’m still around Lance and still posting to my blog. I’ve just pulled some baguettes out of the oven that I will post. They are my tried and true formula with some minor fermentation tweaks that continue from bake to bake. I hope others will start or continue to post on TFL.
Benny
I can't fault you, Benny; you are a stalwart of the blog post scene!
Or maybe three…
Over the years, the number of posts tend to wax and wane. There's usually a surge when some new book or bread or technique or equipment appears, as people try out the new thing and discuss it. People come and go, as well. If a once-prolific poster drops out due to death, ill health, or changing interests, that can create a slump in traffic. Depending on when you found TFL, the names jmonkey, ZolaBlue, bwraith, proth5, smugmug, zita, ars pistorica, or dabrownman, may or may not be familiar to you. They (and numerous others) were all prolific posters who are no longer active here. Sometimes, external events (such as the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020) cause unanticipated spikes in new TFL members and posts. And let’s not forget that TFL was once almost unique in its focus and content. There are a lot more bread sites today that draw traffic which might otherwise go to TFL.
In my own case, I’m baking less in retirement than I did previously. A lot of the things I bake are favorites that I’ve blogged about before, so I feel I’ve said as much as I can about them without boring you or me. It's a bit weird how something as simple as no longer packing a lunch each day has affected my baking.
TLDR: Eh, it happens. This lull will probably be followed by a surge.
Paul
I had to click on 30 (thirthy, three-zero) captcha squares to make this comment.
Took at least a dozen attempts to make it past the captcha. I was especially careful after the first few attempts failed.
Instead of logging in on the home page, log in on a post and you can avoid the captcha.
Thanks for the tip. That worked.
Strange - I hardly ever see a captcha, and the few times I do I haven't had any problems with it. I usually stay logged in to the site for long times, and I guess it doesn't arise. This is the only site I stay logged in to. I never do that with any other site.
I usually stay logged in for weeks at a time. When the board logs me out and I get a captcha, I usually nail it on the first try.
I check the site semi frequently, however there is a loading problem that started perhaps a couple of weeks ago. It has been consistent, which indicates an actual problem and not number of visitors or web traffic. It appears related to the ads, which have become more numerous, and the placement of the ads, which on iPad load at both the top and the bottom of the page before the page opens. I haven't seen this on any other site.
I have been working on sweet lievito madre to the exclusion (almost) of other forms of leavening. I've had a few breakthroughs with it, and also with techniques of making panettone, but I know that this topic isn't interesting to most people..... I did just bake the most amazing chocolate panettone, using the Italian team's winning recipe from last years panettone world championship. I have been buying a variety of shokupan pans and seasoning them, which while necessary isn't very post-worthy, ....😂
Thanks for all your comments. It was heartwarming to get such a big response. It shows to me that TFL is still an active breadmaking community with a great set of members.
Long may it continue - and happy baking!
Lance
I still check TFL every few days to see if anything interesting has appeared, and if so I might even occasionally reply if I can be helpful :) But I rarely post myself nowadays, not much time for experimenting and trying new things that would be worth sharing... Mostly just bake some bread with whatever flour I picked up last at the shop and see how it goes. Usually it's OK, sometimes better, sometimes worse :)
But I am still learning clearly - I am now trying to push bulk fermentation a bit more than I used to, and I think I get better results.
Are you still in Switzerland Ilya? Have you worked your way through all the Swiss flours?
Lance
Yes, still here!
I think the only Switzerland-specific flour is Ruchmehl, not commonly found even in Germany, and that I tried from the very beginning.
A recent trial for me was Halbweiss - half-weight - flour. It's much lighter than Ruchmehl. Very nice and creamy sort of colour, and slightly wheaty taste, very easy to work with!
It seems that there are fewer mega-posters lately and there are a LOT of posters that ask a question and follow up for a few times but drop out before there is any resolution or solution achieved. It is frustrating to offer suggestions and never find out if anything was effective.
I pop on here now and then but I am baking much less these days. I have my favs but, being on calorie restrictions and loving bread makes it a 'dangerous' food to have around. I may have to make an exception this week-my chive flowers are in full, luxurious bloom. I love making a nice French loaf with chive blossoms incorporated. Mmmmm....
I also think people are becoming more text oriented rather than conversation oriented. Short,fast bullets. My adult children think that texting multiple times/day is considered a conversation. Not the same as a real conversation where subjects meander and are talked about and we learn about other's lives and opinions and interests.
Keep posting, keep talking.
Thanks, Floyd, for maintaining the group!
are my new interests, among others. I've become increasingly annoyed by the amount of work it takes to bake a loaf of bread. I want to break free from the endlessly repetitive, trivial tasks that seem to trap me in the kitchen forever. I'm pretty much bored with baking and need new activities to bring some excitement. I still bake out of necessity, but now I just want to get it over with, let alone blog about it.
Yippee
Enforced absence on my side, Lance, due to lots of time pressure from the day job and also some travel abroad for family and work reasons.
In addition, I have not done any bakes of note during this time, sticking to more functional re-runs of well-established ones for my repertoire as a way of 'putting bread on the table' and keeping the SD starter in shape.
Hope to catch-up with post and comments and experiment a little now I have some more time.
Sorry, I didn't mean to come over as classroom monitor - it's just I didn't have anything to browse in the evening!
Lance
I've noticed a lot of forums changing. I've also noticed a whole lot of younger people are glued to their social media, so presumably they don't do forums as much. I used to be here seven or so years ago, then, like others, ended up with major life changes. It's only now that I've stabilized enough to even get back to baking bread. That, and the ridiculous prices for my little budget. So kind of a necessity.
Huge kudos to Floyd for not only starting this site, but for keeping it running and current all these years. How many places are there for community discussion and help, right?
So I used to check in on this freshlove at 78 years ago. I'm pretty sure I made an account but never really posted except a couple of questions and I did notice that it was a great source for a lot of information cuz people were posting all the time. I haven't been on in a while because I... well very sweet.... but couple weeks ago I wanted to make comments and I forgot all my login information so I created into account. But like you I realize that nobody's really posting or talking much anymore. One of the things I have been doing a lot of posting and discussion a lot is on bread forums in reddit. I've been using that for the past two and a half years for the bread forms as well as the KitchenAid and equipment forms. I was actually reminded a few weeks back about the fresh loaf which is what brought me here to do research about something. And talking with some people on that form about the lack of involvement on the fresh loaf, they all have a lot of different reasons for not really coming to this site anymore, but one thing I noticed consistently with everybody is that it's not a very user friendly site for smartphones as well as the fact that annoys the crap out of them that they can't edit a post after they've sent it, regardless spelling errors or grammar things like that. And there's no moderator that is available to help them. The not being able to edit a post is something that I share and frustration. It's the first site that I been to where it's not allowed. Some sites give you a time limit of like 15 minutes after you post to do edits but I thought that was bad but not being allowed to do it's horrible. Bad enough I got to figure out what the hell to click on when I want to get to a recent posted somebody made. And how pages are sometimes really slow. But the main thing that makes people not want to post is the lack of new and fresh posts. It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy when you see a site that's dying it's just going to continue because people don't want to post or be involved in Old stagnant forms that nobody's messaging on. Heck I even had one guy get mad at me for commenting on a very old thread which is kind of ridiculous because there's no such thing as a bed comment to anything that's new or old. Especially if it's something that exists already you shouldn't start a new post. A lot of good information on this site but the worst is is most people who we're posting three four years ago or unable to be reached or don't check here anymore when you make a comment. So we can never get a follow up to something that was posted a long time ago but luckily some of you guys are at least that's my experience that most people respond when I post something but I don't know other people I spoke to say they migrated away from here to other sources such as Reddit that are more active.
When I do a search these days, I'm seeing that the big search engines are dead. I'm learning other engines, where the results are across the entire system, not just paid-for or "hyped" sites. Reddit often shows up with answers for bread questions, but I'm not a member of Reddit and don't choose to be.
Some of the information answering questions is useful, but I wouldn't say it's particularly informative. And I don't agree that Fresh Loaf is "dying." It's a wide-ranging forum, with a massive archive. Baking isn't going to get obsolete, after all: flour is still flour, water is still water, and how they come together is pretty much the same as 10,000 years ago.
But places like Reddit don't have that kind of long-term archival structure. It's a social-media site, after all, designed for quick comments on momentary events. Nor is it designed for instructional help, or full recipes. That calls for a blog, or some place that takes longer posting.
As for not being able to edit, I've never found that to be true really. When I first write something I can choose "Preview," which hasn't yet uploaded the content. If I'm the thread originator, I'm pretty sure there's an "Edit" tab/button if I'm logged in.
If I've made a typo or some big mistake, I believe much of that can be changed. What I wonder about, though, is a post with truly wrong or outdated information. I don't think any post can be deleted entirely. Not a big deal, and commenting on one's own article is allowed.
I'm old enough to remember when conversation was a common past-time. I was amused when Twitter came out, offering 126 characters (not words) for speaking. That had to increase to, I think around 256 now, but I don't know and don't care. I'm not interested in X or Twitter either.
The old truth still stands: If you aren't interested in what you're viewing, then don't view it. Right? We still choose the information we allow to take up our attention, and a larger forum is another alternative to shorter formats like Reddit. As for being "phone friendly," that's utterly fine with me! I'd just as soon use a phone to make a phone call.