An unexplainable sourdough problem
Hi folks,
I’ve been making sourdough bread for about 8 years now and I’ve recently come up against a weird problem that keeps occurring no matter how I change my starter, recipe, or my method. Basically having built up the gluten network sufficiently by doing stretch and folds and then leaving the dough to bulk ferment, I’m finding that by the time it has risen and I dump it out on the counter for a final shaping, that all the gluten network has completely collapsed and the dough just turns back to paste in my hands!
I’ve searched for information online but nobody seems to have come up against this problem. I even suspected that it might be my own bacteria that’s attacking the dough so I tried it again using gloves but still had the same problem.
If anyone knows what’s happening here or has any ideas I’d be extremely grateful.
Thanks!
The starter has turned to acid over time. Start with a little food and a lot of flour - thicken it up - and wait. Eventually it'll come back - expect a few weeks. And nothing is unexplained. Enjoy!
Hey Davey,
Thanks for your response. It’s a good theory. Unfortunately I’ve thrown out five different starters since coming across this problem so I’ve deduced that it’s not the problem.
Cheers!
C above. Enjoy!
Do you mean that you created four new starters from scratch? Or did you mean that you refreshed your starter after discarding most of it?
If it's the latter I'd be inclined to think the starter is too acidic, or that thiol attack could be involved. I don't know anything about the thiol issue.
I'd also wondered about a change in the flour's properties but I suppose that's a real long shot. Could you tell us more about how you usually refresh the starter, how long for bulk ferment, and so on? I doubt that the exact details will matter, but maybe someone will spot something.
TomP
What flour are you using to feed your starter?
My typical flour is a 50/50 mix of all-purpose and whole wheat (a la Tartine), but after a recent vacation I had a successful bake and then after that a starter that was clearly not doing well. Something must have happened while I was away and the starter was parked in the fridge.
Along with the usual AP-whole wheat I included some rye flour. My regular feeding is on a 1:2:2 basis, but for the starter recovery period I went with something like one part starter, about 1.5 of that in AP-WW, and another 1.5 of rye flour, and then something around 2-2.5 water (thickening the starter as Davey described above).
The starter rebounded and is now fine. I do not know the chemistry or details of starters, but clearly the wee beasties can get out of alignment.
Happy baking.
Ted
It might have been thiol attack (you can find more on that topic by searching here on TFL). It might have been that the bacteria in my starter produced too much protease enzymes. I’ll never know for sure.
One option is to “wash” your starter. There are a number of posts here about how successful that can be.
Another option is to dump your current starter and begin a new one from scratch. I went that route when I couldn’t nurse the starter back to health. My present, then new, starter has been chugging along just fine for the last 14 years. It even survived a move from South Africa to the U.S. when it was about a year old.
While I can’t say which will be the best course for you, either option will take about the same amount of time. I suppose you could pursue both options simultaneously as a sort of belt and suspenders approach.
Best of luck.
Paul
Hey everyone,
Thanks so much for your input! To make myself clear; yes I completely abandoned four different starters and began new ones each time - it’s been a long process!
Having read that previous post about thiols, it’s seems that that is my problem and because it keeps happening even though I’m starting from scratch each time, it’s led me to believe that it could be my water.
I’m going to start again using only bottled water and see how I get on.
Again, thanks everyone for all your help!
Happy baking.
I've just had a similar experience. I had a ~1 year old starter that was performing well. On the problem bake I fed it twice before beginning to make the dough and each time it responded well and rose quickly and seemed quite normal without any odd aromal. After~ 1hour autolyse I gave the dough a brief knead and saw good gluten development with each of two stretch and folds 30 minutes apart. On the 3rd S&F the dough was significantly looser and after ~ 2 hours proof it was so slack I had to bake it in a bread pan. There was no change in the smell of the starter or the bread.
I generally use a fair amount of fresh ground rye in my levain and it has been suggested that the rapid fermentation of the rye might have caused the dough to be overproofed. However I had made this same recipe - Hamelman's five grain levain with a rye starter - many times with the same starter and no problem and I believe the problem is that for some reason the starter developed excess protease activity.
I've had this problem once several years ago and spent weeks feeding and discarding to try to save the starter with no success. So I decided to cut my losses and raise another starter rather than risk spoiling another batch of dough. Good luck with raising your new starter - I hope the bottled water helps