White streaks on top of sourdough starter
So I started making a new sourdough starter on July 22nd and named it Anne.
I made Anne with 50% AP Flour and 50% Rye Flour. 100% hydration. I feed it once a day.
On July 23rd, it bubbled a lot and rise 2X it's height.
On July 24th, it rise a bit but I stirred it one time so it didn't rise as much as the second day.
Today (July 25th) I noticed that my sourdough has water separation and when I checked it at feeding time (24 hours since last feeding) it has white streaks floating on the water, round the edges of the jar.
The smell also changed today. Up until July 24th, it smelled bad. But today, it smells alcoholic. I'm from Indonesia and the smell is very similar to Tapai, a fermented food we have here in Indonesia. Tapai is fermented with alcohol. My starter smells exactly like that. It smells sweet.
It doesn't bubble much today, but when I stirred it a bit (when I want to discard half of the starter) the bubbles showed up. I guess that it was hold down by the water separation. I just stirred the white streaks in and I fed it with the same flour ratio (rye and AP) but today I gave it less water. Only 60% hydration so it's more firm.
I'm wondering, what's the white streaks and what causes it? Also since it's my first time making a starter with rye flour, is this how it smell?
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Your starter isn't ready yet. It usually needs around a week. There is a progression that takes place:
- First, some bacteria in the flour/liquid mix start growing. They may produce some bubbles, but the yeast isn't growing yet. They produce some acid which lowers the pH.
- Next, as the mix becomes more acidic, some other kind of bacteria will become favored and grow the best. It may or may not produce some bubbles or fizz. It may smell different, even bad. The acidity keeps dropping. Still no yeast has woken up and started growing.
- The progression continues - the acidity drops little by little and this will favor different bacteria. Gas production and smell may change, or stop.
- Eventually, we hope, the acidity will drop low enough (below 4.1 according to Deborah Winks) to wake up the dormant yeast and let it start growing. After a few more refreshes the yeast and favorable lactic acid bacteria will be growing in a robust way and you will see the kind of starter behavior you expect.
Once the yeast have come out of dormancy, they can grow and flourish at higher pH values.
So just stick with the program!
TomP
Today I still see a bit of water separation on top of my starter even though I've reduced the hydration to 60%. It's much lesser than yesterday though. Should I reduce the hydration even more?
Liquid on the top could indicate some degradation of the flour's protein. If so, some of the old the not-yet-starter should be discarded and then the remainder should be fed with new flour and water.
Most people creating a new starter don't reduce the hydration to 60% because 1) reactions happen faster at higher hydration, and 2) it's harder to feed and stir.
True, it's a but harder to stir so I kept the consistency like a baby's porridge. Not too dry and it can move a bit if I tilt it.
Should I just feed it at higher hydration? Cause I read on a lot of websites that I should reduce the hydration if I see water separation on top of my starter 😊
Also, I'm a bit confused about stirring in between feeding schedules. When I stir my starter, it seems to rise slower.
I don't think it matters very much. I've always created new starters at 100% hydration and I don't have any first hand experience with lower hydration. The thing is, though, that the nascent starter has to go through all the stages as I posted earlier. The fact that you can find all kinds of prescriptions on line - use this temperature, use that temperature, use this flour, use that flour, etc., etc., doesn't mean you are using the wrong way and have to pick a better one.
No, it just means that nearly any combination will work. The exact details are simply not something to worry about. There are specialized starters that want e.g., higher temperatures, but you aren't trying to make one of them right now.
To give you an example, I had a bag of beaten rice. This product consists of rice grains that have been mechanically smashed into thin flakes, and sometimes lightly cooked too. Out of curiosity I put some of them in a bowl and covered them with water. Later the water had all been absorbed and I added more to cover. I had to repeat it and finally I was able to cover the mixture with water and leave it alone.
First day - nothing. Second day- nothing. I stirred it a little. Third day - a few bubbles. Fourth day - it looked active but not like a wheat starter would have. Fifth day - it burst into activity. At this point I took some and added wheat flour and water to it. After one refresh the mixture was very alive and active.
What can go wrong? Some undesired organism could take over and the progression towards more acidity could stop. It might even be a disease-causing microbe. This microbe might or might not produce some gas, and it might or might not smell bad.
If you were very unlucky you might have started out without enough seed microbes to get the progression started. I think that is very unlikely. The only time that happened to me was when I baked my flour before mixing it with water. I wanted to test out the idea that the yeast in a new starter comes from the air (as you often read) vs it coming with the flour. That mix never did anything while an unbaked flour-water mix I made at the same time developed into a starter normally.
Since the whole idea is to create more and more acidity until the yeast can wake up, The process can be jump-started by using pineapple juice instead of water for the first few days. Other acidic liquids could work but it seems that pineapple juice has just the right level of acidity.
That's a surprise to me because stirring has always increased activity for me. At any rate, "rising" in the early stages means nothing so far as the progression toward a working starter is concerned. That gas isn't being generated by yeast.
Just stir it in and reduce the hydration - which you've already done. Keep it on the thick side and wait - when it thins out just add more flour. Don't add more water. Enjoy!
Will do. Thank you Davey!
I agree with tpassin, the starter isn't ready yet. Mine took 7-8 days total and I roughly followed KAF's guide except I reduced the total amount of starter running.
On the white streaks - I have no idea what they exactly are, because I have only made 1 starter from scratch and did not recall that.
For reference, my rough progression of the starter was:
Day 0-1: start with just whole wheat flour, 100% hydration. Within 12 hours, the starter was already slightly bubbly - probably false start, fed starter after 24 hours with white flour and left overnight
Day 2: starter more than tripled overnight and smelled like feet - false start. Made a huge mess on my counter as well because used a jar too small. Started feeding with ap flour every 12 hours, with 1:0.5:0.5 (starter:water:flour) ratio. Not much activity after this for a few days
Day 3-5: starter didn't rise at all after each feed (still every 12 hours), but starter consistently produced strong alcoholic and also rancid smell. Probably should've let the starter sit out more in hindsight, to encourage more acid production, but I don't know. Starter consistency was pretty thin when discarded
Day 6: started out same like day 3-5, fed in morning and then early afternoon, but wasn't able to feed for the next 24 hrs so (which was probably a good thing)
Day 7: in the evening, starter had some rise (~20-30%) and started to smell more sour. Fed with same ratio as before and left for 12 hrs
Day 8: starter rose more than previous feeding, and after 2 more feeds it was consistently doubling and has an acidic smell when matured.
I baked my first loaf by day 9, it was ok but I by then I was still a beginner. In hindsight I should maybe have let mine stay longer without feedings to encourage more acid sticking around avoid dealing with more discard. But I'm not so sure because my starter was thick when I fed it and was noticeably thinner when I discarded.
Last note: I'm also from Indonesia, and am familiar with tapai, but I don't think mine smelled that much like tapai during the earlier stages, it was more of a stronger chemical-ish smell
I've made a starter with AP Flour before but it has mold so I made this one (Anne).
I had the same experiences (no rise from day four and onwards) and I read that it's because sourdough starter progression nearly always slow down in these days.
How long did you leave yours to rise before feeding it? Some people say that you can leave starter for several days if it hasn't rise, but I'm not sure.
Today, mine rises a bit (just around 30%) and has more bubbles than yesterday, though not much.
P.s: I'm happy to find another friend from Indonesia! 🙌
I fed my starter every 12 hours during starting, but I think I should've waited more before feeding. I heard somewhere that it takes at least 14 feedings to get the starter to a ready, which lines up with my experience (7 days and 2 feedings per day). Other places say 7 days and so on. I concluded that I should have fed my starter less because my starter started rising after I unintentionally left it 24 hours, but I have only made one starter so I don't know that much. Other sources also kinda encourage feeding a young starter less before it shows activity.
But I think you are on the right track. Keep feeding it after it thins out (which indicates some activity) and see what happens.
Just wait - always hard to do. It'll be a week or so when it's created (if all goes well) - then another week or 2 (most likely 2) till it's ready. I'd wait another week or so before use. Enjoy!