March 14, 2024 - 1:44pm
New guy in Colombia, struggling
Hi all, I'm new to baking bread, or at least being serious about it, and feel like this forum was a lucky find. If anyone lives in Medellin Colombia can you tell me where I can buy Rye flour? (trying to make a sourdough starter). Amazon is no help, nor is the Colombian version (Mercado Libre). I'm using the best whole wheat I can find and it starts out fine but I can never get the funky smell or get the tripling in 6 hours, and I've tried 1:1:1 and 1:2:2. It's slowly doubling and I've waited 24 hours, but it's just lazy. i'm using 82-84F with oven light and bottled water. Maybe too much 1:1:1 and over-diluted? Any tips or guidance would be wonderful. Thanks!
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The good news is that you don't need to buy rye flour. My hunch is that you're waiting too long between feeds at 82-84 degrees, but it's not clear where you are in the process, and that makes a difference. When did you start this?
Good! Frankly, I can't keep track of where it started or ended. My bad. I need a written schedule and log, which I will start before I ask another such vague question. I'll be back!.... Just in general, I've been waiting 24 hours at the very beginning, first 3 days or so. Back to the drawing board. thank you
That being said, I don't think swapping rye for whole wheat will solve the issue. What is the hydration of your mother culture? A liquid culture, ie, 100% hydration will not rise as high as a "stiff" starter. That is not to say that the liquid culture is not active and ready to levian bread.
1. are you getting any lift/bubbles at all?
2. If there's a Polish community in Medellin, they'll probably be your best bet for rye.
Rob
So, to clarify, every one of these feeble attempts has gone through the highly active stage, died down, never got the funky odor, and then almost completely stopped reacting. Too hot, too long between feedings, too high hydration... I give up (not really). But as I mentioned earlier, it's time to get serious and keep a log. I like the tip about a Polish community, but if they're here I'm not aware of where. thanks
how long have you kept going with each attempt?
my experience (with whole rye) was that it took about 2 months to get my starter going ... & 6 months to 1 year after that to get it happy & consistent. During all that time, it sometimes acted as if it had died -- though, obviously, it hadn't.
In other words, stay on the journey. At a certain point, your starter will tell you what to do to make it happy.
Rob
Thanks Rob, usually it stops showing any activity after 2 weeks +/-, but I haven't documented anything so I'm doing that now... interestingly, the thing that made me stop and restart so many times was the fact that it never developed any smell whatsoever. A little bit like wet flour, kinda sweet, but never any funky smell which is in every post I've ever read. I've even searched to see if I can find an opinion on 'no funky smell'. So maybe this time, with better information to provide, I'll wise up.
I made my rye starter the old-fashioned way -- flour, water & time -- loosely following instructions on The Perfect Loaf site & Tartine Bread Experiment site.
You're using whole wheat, which is different. So here's a thought: You might want to take a look at this series of posts from Debra Wink (who commented earlier in this thread):
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1
Apparently, much of the initial activity that can be seen in incipient starters is bubbles created by bacteria, not yeast. Yeast need an acidic environment to reproduce -- and fruit juice (particularly pineapple) can help create a the right environment for that.
Perhaps your attempts never got acidic enough for yeast to start taking over.
Also, whole grain flour will not rise as aggressively as white flour -- so you shouldn't think you are failing if your starter hasn't doubled or tripled.
Onward!
Rob
Beware "anayaraj-09" Enjoy!
thanks
I get the feeling I shouldn't be using the introduction page to air my (rank beginner) bread woes... any suggestions where I should talking in depth about sourdough starter? thanks
I didn't even notice that your original post was an introduction. I just clicked on the new post that showed up. Don't worry about it. People here for the most part, I think, post because they want to share something, want to learn useful things, want to help, or want to ask for help.
TomP
Sourdough and starters i think it is. Give as much detail as possible. Enjoy!
Thanks
Progress, but... after more research, and before I had an excellent tip to raise acidity, I started a new batch which was very different from the previous 1:1:1 (whole wheat). This new approach started 100g flour/125g water. Days 2&3 discarded down to 75g and 100 flour/115 water. There was a lot of activity on day2, doubled, liquid at the bottom, and very gluten-y. The key point here on day 2 was that, for the first time, it had the funky smell, though it was moderate. I thought that was significant (it had never happened previously) and though I wanted to try with pineapple juice I continued because it looked promising for the first time. Days 4-6 changed to 2X daily feeding using the same 75/100/115. Notable during this period it was quiet for two days, almost no activity, and no funky smell. On day 6 it nearly doubled, lots of activity, still sweet smell. From day 7 onward the ratio changed to 20g starter/100/100 (2X daily). The fotos are from day 7, where I am right now. THE question is this: though everything seems to look good, and it appears to be getting stronger, there is no hint of a smell other than the faintly sweet smell of wet flour. So is this a waste of time, and should I just go back to square 1 raise the acidity right at the start, or can I add pineapple juice now and see what happens? thanks in advance (edit: I uploaded the photos, but to where I don't know)
The development sequence you describe seems pretty standard. What happens is that all kinds of bacteria start growing at the start, some of them unpleasant. During this stage there can be some bubbles and other gas activity, but it's not a starter yet.
The lactic acid bacteria start to acidify the mixture, and the acidity inhibits some of the other bacteria. The signs of gas or other activity fade away. As the mix gets more acidic, eventually only the desired lactic acid bacteria thrive, and when it gets acidic enough the dormant yeast spring to life. A few days later you have a starter.
The pineapple juice helps bypass the first stage by inhibiting more of the undesired bacteria. Later on you don't need it because the mix is already acidic.
Smell isn't necessarily much of an indicator, as long as there is no off smell. Really, you need to judge by the starter's activity. After you refresh it, does it rise to double or more in say 5 hours (more or less depending on the temperature, refreshment ratio, etc.)? If it does, refresh it a few more times and it should be good for baking.
TomP