March 5, 2024 - 6:51am
Evolutions in Bread Failures
I’ve had two successive failures with Ken Forkish’s Country Bread EIB style. Despite careful weight, temperature (including winter seasonal adjustments), and levin creation, the final dough mix will not increase in volume after more than 5 hours.
Uncertain what to correction is needed, maybe another recipe.
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Another recipe won't matter, I don't think. Tinkering with ingredient ratios, etc, will only change details. If your dough really isn't rising, something more fundamental must be going on.
Walk us through the steps you took to put this bread together. Then we might be able to help. Include what kind of flour(s) you used.
TomP
FLOUR: King Author Bread and Whole Wheat, Arrowhead Mills Rye
After the third fold, there is essentially no rise after 5 hours.
Sorry, King Arthur flour
I have the book and I've just looked through the section for this bread. It sounds like you followed it pretty much as is. I don't see anything out of line that would explain what you saw.
The initial seed starter (or call it levain if you like) - was it active and gassy? Did the build stages produce active, gassy starter?
What did the dough feel like during the third S&F? There would not have been much if any rise yet, but the dough should have felt smooth, somewhat stretchy yet strong, and should have tightened up as you stretched it.
Some people have had mysterious problems and it turned out to be the water. Using bottled water, or filtered tap water, made a huge difference. Apparently all bottled waters are not equal, and not all of them made for a good bake.
If you haven't done it in the past, I would suggest making a simpler bread, with just a single stage - starter, flour, salt; single bulk ferment with several S&Fs; shape loaf; bake. If this also flops, then you for sure have a big problem.
I’ m guessing my feed starter is the problem. I’ve had it about a month with weekly refresh. I made several pan loaves with the starter (and yeast) with good results.
Looking at the refrigerated starter today it appears running and just a few small bubbles and a few gray colored streaks. I think I’ll begin a new starter a try again.
Weekly refresh of a basically white starter, even if it's been refrigerated, is not enough for most people's starters. It would need to be refreshed at least once to regain activity before being put to use.
If it used to work well you should be able to recover it with enough refreshes. I recently recovered one that had been unfed in the fridge for at least two months and probably more.
I guess it's worth repeating at this time - a little flour and water (keep it thick) - time - when it gets thin - just add flour to thicken again - wait. It can be days (not likely) - it can be weeks (more like it) and you'll have a starter. Enjoy!
Yes, the starter appeared as it should through all stages. The final stage had the surface filled with tiny bubbles. The dough felt right after the final or third fold. Really has me stumped.
I'm sorry to say but I'm stumped too. If it were some random flour I'd say try another kind, but KA is pretty consistent.
but I only attempt making bread if my starter is really bubbling and active. I will have it at room temperature, feeding it twice a day..... I consider it ready if it rises very visibly within a couple of hours of the feeding. I've had a couple of failures in the past due to what I consider to be a starter with very diminished activity.
The formulas in Kens latest work rely on commercial yeast for leviening, and discard sourdough culture for flavor?
He's got two versions for many of the recipes. In some cases it's with or without sourdough enhancement.
Alas, until today I barely glanced at it. This thread pushed me to is investigate. There is a lot I like about what I see so far. First he actually gives guidance on exactly when the volume increase prescribed has been reached. The only cavite is you need to use the same size graduated proofing container he uses. Interesting indeed! I just might follow suit and try my hand at the Le Pain Champagne.
I feel like I could have written your original post, you have described exactly my problem with same recipe.
Just like you, I have been very careful with ingredients, weights, temperatures, etc., and 5 hours after the final fold, there’s barely any rise at all - it firms up and then just spreads in the tub. This is my second attempt, exactly the same problem first time around as well
I used to get consistently good results with the recipes in Flour Water Salt Yeast, so I’m guessing the issue is that my Evolutions in Bread levain just isn’t strong enough. I have followed the book’s feeding advice and it has always looked just as it should - based on the photos in the book - but I wonder if it’s just not alive-and-gassy enough. I notice that it’s a more loose than the FWSY one.
Feeling frustrated, please share any insights!