LM lacks vitality
I'm trying to train my LM ready to make panettone, but it is lacking vitality, presumably due to insufficient yeast. The LM came from my stiff French starter and I've been training it for about two weeks now.
I have been doing one or two 4 - 5 hour feeds at 1:1 44%, 28C, then 20 or 16 hours at 1:1 42%, 18C.
- Flour: Carrs Canadian extra-strong, protein 14.6%
- Storage method: forma libera
- pH after warm storage: 4.2
- ph after cold storage 4.1
- Flavour sl acidic, not floury, not unpleasant
- Alveoli: small
- Colour: maybe slightly grey?
Photos after 4hrs at 28C:
I don't seem to be making much progress, so I'm not sure whether to pull the plug on this one. Any suggestions appreciated.
For weak yeast Massari suggests:
"Refresh the sourdough with the following sample dosages
sourdough gr. 250
gr “00” flour. 200
gr water 100"
whereas others suggest a low (40%) hydration, so I don't know which one is best.
I'm only working with doughs of about 50 grams total - I don't know if that is a factor?
Lance
50g vs. 550g will make a big difference. I imagine that temperature in the centre of the LM will be warmer and more stable then a 50g LM. There could be other factors too.
Also your'e using a 14.6% protein flour at 42-44% hydration. It's gonna be tough for the yeasts to leaven that piece of dough. What is the protein content of the recommended flour?
P.s. i've just looked it up and it's telling me 12% protein. Now if i'm not mistaken Allinson's Bread Flour is 12% protein. How about switching up your flour and increasing the LM? Doesn't have to be 550g but how about 200g ish and see how it reacts?
Agree with Abe, try a good quality bread flour to see if that gives an improvement. You could also try a small addition of sugar for a couple of the warm feedings, which should stimulate yeast activity. I don't use that approach all the time, but have gotten larger alveoli in the LM after doing so.
Also at higher hydrations above 40%, you will usually only see smaller alveoli. Very active but not able to create the larger openings, at least that's my experience. Also you will see more openings in the LM if you roll and coil it.
IMG_7017.jpeg
Hi Lance,
Looks like your dough is degrading faster than it can rise.
The 1:1 ratio at all stages is good for ensuring retention of all microbial activity and your maintenance routine is typical and ideal. However if the starting point is not of an already perfectly mature madre then LAB will creep in and become too dominant at the expense of leavening. In this case tweaks must be made.
Try 1:2 a couple of times for the long and cool ferment. And please use either the bound (Milanese) or water bath (Piemontese) method during this phase. It really is quite important for preserving the oxidation potential.
Massari warms of the "free" method it as it causes the dough to degrade and sour.
Your dough looks too dark / it needs to be brighter white in tone.
Dark (ochre) = sourdough. Some Italian masters might describe it as having used up all its oxygen!
Might all sound like madness but try it out...
Michael
On all of these points. I'm going to take this advice too, thank you. While my LM is and has been working, it trends back to the excess LAB position if I am not very careful. I had my best results about 1.5 years ago when I was maintaining the LM in water.
Thanks all - some great ideas here, which I will put into practice.
Michael, is it possible to vacuum pack the LM as an alternative to the traditional bound method?
Lance
I imagine that will be fine. With some room for expansion while not allowing too much, as some degree of pressure is suitable.