Ginsberg's Scalded Rye Bread and bread pans
Recently I made Ginsberg's Scalded Rye Bread (73% medium rye flour, 27% coarse rye meal, 87% hydration) where he calls for the loaves to be proofed and baked in a charlotte mold or two 9x4x4 Pullman pans or two 9x5x3 loaf pans. I don't have a charlotte mold and I have only one Pullman pan so I put the dough, divided in half, in the Pullman pan and a loaf pan. I had my doubts as it seemed the dough was sitting very low in the pans but I followed the recipe. You can see them after the bake side by side. They were well risen but very short, especially one from the 9x5x3 pan. Here is the Pullman loaf back in the pan to illustrate further; it fills the pan about halfway:
Why did Ginsberg call for two of those pans? Are these loaves supposed to be that squat? Did anybody use charlotte mold as called for in this or another Ginsberg recipe? From that second picture it looks like the Pullman pan could've accommodated all of the dough which weighed 1.6 kg. Would the loaf not rise properly in such a case? I'm trying to figure out his reasoning here.
I have not made this bread, but I have routinely baked 1–1.3 kg of Ginsberg's rye doughs in a 23×13×8 cm Pullman pan. I also made the Oldenburger Landbrot from Ginsberg's website and the dough weight was 1.6 kg and it also fit in the Pullman pan.
Ginsberg also suggested a round cake pan for this dough. I don't know how that compares with the charlotte mold.
Yeah, it seems like the 9x4x4 Pullman pan will take about 1.5 kg of rye dough. That's what Hamelman specifies for his Danish loaves. Might just do that next time.
The Charlotte pan has a height of 6cm (2.4in) The use of two pullmans will give the desired rise height for the type of bake. 6cm as picture 2.
Both your bakes have the same volume just in a slightly different shape.
Ginsberg's suggested alternate pan is about getting the rise height similar to the charlotte pan, more than "will it all fit in one pan"
Your bakes look good.
Rafe
The bread was delicious. I found another loaf in that book, Morskoy Chleb, that also calls for baking in a charlotte pan and that one has a picture. The loaf looks squat. So I guess Ginsberg wanted to preserve that aspect and that's why he called for two of the rectangular pans. But other than mentioning earlier in the book such pans would be used traditionally he doesn't provide more info. Does this desired rise height do anything special to this bread? Or would I be OK baking it all in the 9x4x4 Pullman pan? The 1.6 kg of dough is in the ballpark with similar loaves baked in such a pan. I might just go for it next time.
Based on your results with the 9×4×4 (23×10x10 cm) pan, the volume of the bake and assuming the rise was 6cm this equates to 23x10x6 =1380cm3 (Figure you can’t check this as you've probably eaten it all by now!)
The total pullman volume in cm3 for your pullman pan 23x10x10 = 2300cm3
Given that your dough weight was 800 (half your 1.6kg) The weight required to fill the Pullman volume would be 800/1380=0.58g per cm3, converting up to 2300 is 0.58x2300 = 1334g
The recipe from the book total dough weight is 1774g, 887g per portion. This would equate to 887/1380x2300 =1478g to fill a 20x10x10 Pullman.
The only special thing about this Ginsberg’s bread in a Pullman is, he quotes “The higher sides give me loaves that have a square cross-section and, I believe, allow for more even baking and a more uniform crumb”.
Just go for it!
Rafe
OK, so 1500g of dough should work. I will try that next time or... I will get Yet Another Pan (TM) (charlotte). One can never have too many pans, right? Thanks again!
Go with the 1500g, you can always adjust it if it spills all over the place OR As you say keep buying pans... One of them is bound to work! ;-)
bitcat70
This bread is on my list to bake and like you, I don't have the exact pans, so I did a comparison of pan volumes and dough weight.
Here are the calculations based on dimensions
Round (cylinder)
pi Radius Height Vol (PiR²)H
3.14 4 3 150.72
Rectangle
L W H Vol Diff
9 4 4 144 -6.72
9 5 3 135 -15.72
Stan calls for a 8"x3" round pan for 1.6kg loaf so I am surmising that a single Pullman/loaf pan would have been a little to small so he calls for 2 of them to accommodate all the dough, making for much less height of the 2 loafs.
Your dough density looks correct based on other rye breads from this book that I've baked.
Tony
It's possible it might be a little much but it's about what 9x4x4 Pullman rye loaves call for. Maybe I'd scale it to 1.5 kg. It was very good so will probably bake it again at some point.