Top Heat Issue?
Hey, TFL'ers!! I have not posted in quite some time, but I'm on the site most every day. I'm back with a request for some assessment on a baking issue I had this morning. This is the first time that I've tried baking back to back loads of 4 loaves each in my oven. My first load turned out great (82% hydration, 70% whole wheat loaves), but with the second load the two loaves up top did not open, so I ended up with the football shape and some blowout on the bottom of the loaves.
Here's what I did with my "heat management"...... Preheat oven @ 500°F for one hour, steam oven with soaked towels, score loaves, load loaves, ice cubes into lava rock tray, and oven down to 475°F. Removed steaming apparatus after 20 minutes. After 10 more minutes, I swapped the loaves top to bottom as there is more heat up top. Removed loaves after 10 more minutes.
Here's where I think I probably messed up......Turned oven back to 500°F for 10 minutes, repeated the steam procedure, scoring, loading and ice. When I went to remove the steam apparatus is when I discovered my footballs on the top, but the bottom loaves opened up pretty normally (though not quite as much as I would normally get.
My guess is that I loaded the oven with too much heat when I cranked it to 500°F again. I'm thinking that by the time I started my second loaf, I had plenty of thermal momentum/mass with my two stones and what was now almost two hours of heat soaking time for them. What say you, collective TFL community? ...and, bonus question, what would you try on the next batch to avoid this issue. My thought is to just leave the oven running at 475°F (which is my normal temp, by the way) and skip the 500°F boost after batch one.
Some pictures to help with visualizing......
Batch #1
Batch #2
Thanks in advance for any thoughts or insights! :)
Rich
Might help if I give you an idea of what kind of oven we are talking about! :) This is a DCS electric wall oven that we had installed 20 years ago. I use the "Bake" function only, no "Convection", "Roast" or other modes. The insulation in this oven is REALLY good so it holds its heat very well in general with, or without stones on board.
The two stones are both cordierite, 5/8" thick, and 16"x14".
Thanks again!
Rich
it's not a scoring issue?
Yeah, JL, I'm pretty sure it's not a scoring issue. I score the same way every time, and I get great open loaves and ears every time. Top and bottom loaves were same batch of dough, with same scoring.....bottom opened, top did not. If they both didn't open, I'd be thinking along the lines of a steaming issue.....
Thanks for the reply!!
Rich
More time to reheat the stones between loadings. My stone temp taken with an IR thermometer after removing the first loaf is down to around 420F and takes almost 20 minutes to get back to 450. I would think with two loaves on each stone you would lose quite a bit of stored heat. The extra heat from jacking it up to 500 may have caused the score to seal up too early while the stones weren’t up to temperature to get a good oven spring. MTCW
Don
Thanks, Don, I stupidly did not think to check the stone temps! The one thing that has me a little confused is that the bottom loaves did open/spring ok. I suppose it is possible that the stones hold onto/give up heat differently, but I'm a bit doubtful about that since they are the same material and dimensions. At times like this, I always remind myself that I do hold a BA degree, and NOT a BS degree!! 🤣
Ok, well, some tinkering to do with the process, which, of course, means I get to bake some more bread (which will make some people happy!)
I appreciate your input, Don, many thanks!
Rich
I don't know if I can be of much help, but I am assuming you are using a standard thickness ( around 1/2 " plus or minus) cordierite stone. If so, IMO, there is no way you had a lot of stored heat in those stones from the first bake. I have a few gas pizza ovens, and while we can get the stones very hot, cooking a very thin pie for only a few minutes will really drop the temp of a standard thickness stone. As MTloaf says, when you took off the first loaves, those stones would have lost a fair amount of stored heat, and 10 minutes at 500 would hardly make the stones hotter than your first bake.
If heat is the culprit, one possibility is that when you did your first load, the element had just turned off when you loaded the loaves, so tne temp was dropping, and on the second batch, the element turned on early in the bake ( If you set an oven to 475, and you measured the temp in the oven, it would fall below the 475 part of the time, then the element would kick on , it will go over 475 part of the time, then the element will kick off - the actual swing depends on a number of factors, but can easily be 25 above and 25 below the set temp).
My thought is that the difference is not the heat, but something else - maybe some of the loaves were a little more proofed than the others, or shaped differently.
Thanks, Barry. I will definitely be shooting temps of the stones the next time I bake so I have a much clearer idea of where I'm starting with my typical 60 minute pre-heat, where I'm at when I unload the first batch, and how long it takes to get back up to temp.
I'm not too convinced it's proofing or shaping, as those four loaves were a separate batch of dough, so all bulked, and proofed together. I'm no shaping wizard, but my results are very similar every time (well, except for today.) :) I'll keep an eye on that, but will probably fiddle with temps first to keep the changes minimal so I know what's having an effect, if anything.
I appreciate your feedback! Oh, and the stones are 5/8" thick, 16"x14". One is very new (bought last month), the other is very old (was my mom's.....maybe 30-40 years old.) So, I'll cross check temps on both stones.
Always something to chase in this hobby! :)
Rich
I'm thinking too much top heat, sealing the crust before the oven spring is complete. Maybe less steam reaching the top row.
Does your oven have separate top and bottom heat controls? If so, turn off top heat for the steam phase.
Failing that, turn off the heat completely for the steam phase.
Either way, make sure the top element has been off for a couple of minutes before introducing the loaves, in case there is residual red heat in it.
Lance
Lance, that was my first thought, too, so I'll need to pay more attention to what the oven is doing in that re-heat phase. I've got a few things to work on based on feedback here, and thinking about it more. I need to track my stone temps more closely (I should do this anyway, just to have the data), see what increasing the re-heat cycle does with oven functions, and make sure that I have adequate steam for the second cycle.
I'm certain this is something I can accomplish, just need to be a bit more attentive on the next round (whenever that is.)
I appreciate your feedback!!
Rich