Ken Forkish Overnight White - Sticky wet mess
Greeting everyone. I'm so glad I've found this forum.
I'm a new to baking bread and I picked up Ken Forkish's Flour Water Salt Yeast book to make my start. I've had great success with half a dozen same-day breads outlined in his book. But my woes have begun with the overnight bread,
Twice now I've made an attempt and twice my dough in the morning is still a sticky mess after bulk fermentation.I do my measurements by weight, so I'm pretty confident my issue isn't there, but I do know of a couple problems.
My temperature after final mix has twice been 81 degrees. I know I should be somewhere between 78-79 ideally. So I know I need to make adjustments there, cooler water. And as a result of this higher temperature, the fermentation is happening quicker. So that's problem #1, my dough was 4-5x's risen by the time I woke up verses it being 3x's.
When I take it out to shape into balls for proofing, it's just way, way, way too sticky. I can't get it to hold it's shape, it flattens out. I can't even give it the poke test to see if proofing is done as it just sticks to my finger.
So problem #2, am I not doing enough folding in the early fermentation process? I've done it the recommended 3 times, but it does still seem pretty darn soft, and not tight enough after this.
This last time, it was so sticky, that it just stuck and ripped itself apart as I tried to pour it from the proofing basket into the dutch oven.
Perhaps it's a combination of those factors or something else. I'm looking for some advice, tips, or any help this collective of knowledge has to offer a bread newb.
Thanks!
I can’t help you other than to say I am having the same exact problem as we speak. Except mine rose about 2.5 times during bulk and my kitchen was only about 67 degrees overnight. And I still have the same problems you described!!
Interesting. Temps were 75 in my house during this period. And my final mix temperature was 81, so warm warm on all accounts which would explain why mine was over-risen.
So your issue wasn't too much rise during ferment. Perhaps that is one factor I can remove (other than my over-rise makes for flatter/denser loaf). Which leaves two possibilities, two much water, which I don't think is the case unless we both measured incorrectly.
How many time did you fold in the initial bulk fermentation? I think I may need to continue to do more folds until there's sufficient tension built to give it some shape. I'm not sure if that would correct the stickiness part though.
I did three folds. My dough was also cool by the time I added the yeast because I ate dinner during the autolyse and it was more like 45 minutes later. So I’m pretty sure the dough was not too warm. The only thing I can think of is that my flour was too low in protein (10%). However, this same thing happened when I tried the 75% whole wheat recipe, and that flour was higher in protein. So I don’t really know if that’s a factor. I’m adding a picture of my dough after taking it out of the bowl after the proof. It basically spread out onto the counter.
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And this whole time the dough was sooooooo sticky.
You have experienced a common problem with Ken Forkish's timings. For many of us, following his instructions, especially for overnight fermentations at room temperature, results in severely over-fermented dough. My hypothesis is that he developed his recipes in 65-68ºF environments.
I have had better success working out the timings to get everything done during the day, when I can watch the dough, and using cold retardation liberally.
If you want a white flour Forkish levain, I have had good luck with the "White Flour Warm Spot Levain," or something like that. But the key to any bread baking is that the dough rules, so watch the dough, not the clock.
Happy baking!
David
Thanks for your insight, David. So are you saying the reason for the super sticky and loose dough at the end of the ferment is due to fermenting too long? I know I let mine ferment too long based solely on the fact it was 5x's the original size from the night before. That's on me for sure. My intention wasn't to let it get that far, it just happened so fast. My choices are to try less yeast or colder temps, or using the fridge, but always be keeping an eye on the 3x's.
I'm just trying to account for the stickyness and looseness.
Loamochi's dough never quite reached 3x's though, but is having the same issue.
Actually, I generally only let the dough double during bulk fermentation. Expanding a bit further will give you bigger holes in your crumb, but that may be because the gluten is starting to break down.
David
Yes thank you for your insight! I am pretty new too and have no idea what over fermented dough looks like. I have been baking no knead loaves for about a year and decided to up my game and try Forkish’s book. I did not have this problem when I used other overnight no knead breads, but I’m not experienced enough at all to know what causes what.
When you say watch the dough, what should I be looking for?
He's saying instead of waiting a specific time, you should let the dough tell you it's ready by how much it's increased in size, depending on the recipe, double or triple.
Basically keep an eye on it until it reaches the desired volume.
But I wonder if mine was within the 2-3x as the recipe states and it was still acting weird, maybe I shouldn’t let it go past double then? Or I wonder if it’s possible that it rose even more than that overnight and then fell? Oh well, guess we’ll just have to try again!! And thank you for allowing me to butt in to your questions :)
You would have to live within the arctic circle to get the Overnight Country Brown to work.
The second thing is that his sourdough method is unnecessarily wasteful.
I would like to praise the pizza dough section. Lots of good info and recipes.
Often missed at the end of chapter, he does state you can scale up or down depending on your baking needs. We scale down to 25% and it works fine, and we can scale up quickly. Or are you stating you don't need the daily feeds?
I will admit we often forget to feed for a day, and nothing bad happens that we can detect.
I've been baking using Ken Forkish's book for a year now. I've made many versions of the overnight country blonde and overnight country brown. Every single version baked up flat and was a sticky mess - UNTIL, that is, I decreased the water used when mixing the dough. I now reduce the water called for by 15-20% - and everything turns out perfectly. I tried everything else first (lengthening and shortening the rise times, amount of flour, etc) - but until I reduced the water (20% last time, and my loafs finally looked exactly like his - they were awesome).
So, this thread might be old - but I bet there is someone out there with the same problems that this might help. Also, use convect bake instead of regular bake or you'll get burnt bottoms!
So, to be clear, I follow his recipes exactly EXCEPT I now reduce the water amount by 15-20% (for example, 548g of water instead of 684g) and bake using convect and everything turns out perfectly!
Glad to know it wasn't just me - thanks for the tips!
I realize this is an older stream, but thank you Bmoller for the info! You confirmed what I'm going to try with my next overnight loaves.
...per Abe's suggestion and bake quality improved dramatically. I dropped hydration from 78% per book down to 70% and no longer baked flat loaves. That is approximately a 10% drop. Maybe I should try a 15-20% reduction for the next bake.