Bread is too light and fluffy

Thanks for that Danny, I'll see if anybody else can offer some thoughts.  Like I mentioned, there's nothing wrong with the bread as such, it's just that I would just like it to be a bit more solid.  To this end I have decided that with the next loaf I will increase the flour and water by 10% but leave the sugar and yeast the same as original and see what happens!

Thanks for the recent posts, not sure on the protocols regarding reply or comment!  Anyway thanks both.

More solid ... my wife and I are sitting here trying to find the right words to expand on this.  Given that this (by chance really) is much the same recipe that I would use for hand-made bread, the machine loaf is much taller and therefore less dense.  I imagine most would say it is a good texture.  However, when I make bread by hand there is more substance and more chewing is required.

The current machine offering is what I would describe as the typical texture of an uncut shop loaf in a good bakers (in the UK) - fluffy and lacking substance.  When you cut it there is a slight tendency to tear if you are not careful.  I am sure for many this would be a really good loaf.  Given the minimal effort I am impressed but I would like something more ... errr, solid!  Please excuse the lack of artisan understanding - I am something of an amateur baker.

The addition of Rye is one I would like to try.  I could also add a small extra amount of wholemeal but not increase the white.  I hadn't thought of that.

Leaving out the oil is an interesting thought - I have always added some form of fat to my bread and wonder if it might be a bit dry without it.

Anyway, I shall experiment in due course and will post an update.

I always think that having started a thread, it is good to keep up the flow.  However, the notifications do not seem to be coming through to me - presumably a setting I have omitted.  Anyway, thanks for the last two posts.

clazar123 - I understand what you are saying about "light and fluffy" and on those criteria the machine is working well.  My desire to change things a little is down to my personal preference - my liking is for a bit more body / chewiness in a loaf.  Being new to bread machines I was not sure which direction to head in; that said, I have a list of things to try and I will add your idea of reducing the protein content to that list.

mini oven - was wondering whether the pile of books was during baking or afterwards?!  Anyway, spelt is on the list to try so I will do an update when that has happened.  It's a bit ironic but we actually try to not eat too much wheat bread (I do a nice but solid buckwheat and quinoa loaf - see below) so it will be a few days until I post an update.

Regarding the light and fluffy loaf being in the fridge, we have decided that it is much better a day or so later - easier to cut and nicer in the mouth.  But of course it is still has that lightness.

One thing I will try is changing the settings for small / medium / large loaves.  Depending on which you choose the ingredients increase and that makes sense but the overall programme time is the same which seems odd.  I cannot figure out what changes within the programme depending on which loaf you select.  If the overall time was longer the bigger the loaf selected, well that would make sense to me but that isn't the case.  So, I am going to use the ingredients for the medium loaf on the small setting and see what happens.  Might be one for the birds!

Thanks again.

Thanks for the recent posts.  I have been experimenting and will update this now and then just in case anyone down the line finds it useful.  So far I have tried reducing the water (no effect on the output) and changing the loaf size (this you select on the machine before starting) and again with no effect.

So today's effort was to add 50g of organic wholemeal spelt - meaning I used 250g strong white, 250g of wholemeal bread flour plus the spelt (total 550g).  I also increased the water from 360g to 396g i.e. flour and water up by 10%.  I thought that this, by increasing the raio of flour to yeast, would achieve something.  In fact this has had no effect at least judging by appearance - we haven't eaten any yet but it is the same size and still light in texture.

I intend to try adding 100g of spelt next time then will experiment with something like quinoa or barley flour.

I am not keen on eliminating one of the proof/rises or any other maual intervention because this is all about lazy bread!

I am intrigued as to the effect of not adding oil, I thought that was good for the texture?  Also, is it not the case that the quick dried yeast needs sugar to activate same?

Thanks again.

So ... it would seem we are in for the long haul.

I increased the flour to 600 grammes (250 wholemeal, 250 strong white, 100 spelt) but there was no real difference - maybe it was a tad more dense but still too light for our taste.  This amount of flour is the maximum that the machine will cope with so my next experiment was inevitably going to be reducing the yeast and sugar in ratio to the 600 grammes of flour.

Meanwhile, and to answer my own question above about leaving out sugar, the following is courtesy of Loren McCune on Quora:

Yeast eat sugars; however, flour is primarily starch. And, starch is made of sugars all linked together. The flour alone is sufficient food for yeast.  When instant yeast meets water and flour, the yeasts wake up hungry. Enzymes in the flour go to work unlinking the sugars and the yeast are lined up behind them for breakfast. Everybody is happy and added sugar is not necessary.

Most of you already knew that but I didn't.  So I then reduced the yeast by 25% and the sugar by 50% (I used 3/4 teaspoon and 1/2 teaspoon respectively).  This produced a loaf that is more dense but maybe we are veering towards it getting a little doughy.  Ho hum.  I am going to leave the yeast at 3/4 teaspoon but carry on reducing the sugar and we will see what happens.