Community Bake - Rye Bread

I made exactly this bread Saturday! I made the sourdough version, using a rye starter. I baked it in a pan. The spices I used were anise and coriander (crushed somewhat), as well as the molasses and orange peel in recipe amounts. I made it as a pan loaf, with a tablespoon of butter poured into the slash before baking. Mixed it up in the morning,  fermented all day, shaped in the evening, baked right before bed.

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Mix all ingredients in a bowl in the evening. Cover and leave at room temp until morning.650g water150g sunflower seeds60g pumpkin seeds40g chia seeds100g 100% hydration starter past peak (I used rye make sure it is past peak)100g rye flour100g whole wheat flour6g Diastatic malt powder (optional)In the morning the mass should be foamy. Add the rest of the ingredients and mix well until incorporated completely. It should feel like a thick porridge.250g rye flour80g whole wheat flour18g saltleave it to rest 30-60 min before moving to a tin. I used 10” USA Pullman pan. Cover tin and proof to about 30% before baking. Took mine 1hr and 45 min. Preheat oven to 392F. Place tin on rack in middle of oven. Lower temp to 356. Bake 1hr 40 min. Internal temp should be 208F.

Here:
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/69787/82nd-bake-01242022-denisas-100-rye-take-2

Here's Denisa's formula:
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67054/100-whole-grain-rye-sourdough-bread

So far, at least Danayo and I have made it. It's straigtforward, just one single stage levain, no scald, no malt, and the sweetener can be any of malt syrup, molasses, honey, or maple syrup. I used jaggery, a 100% UN-refined sugar from India.

 The highest rye formula bread I'd made before this were the Jewish Deli rye breads clocking in at ~44% rye and all using some preferment, usually a rye sour.

I took Abe's lead and decided this one looked interesting enough to give it a whirl.  Alfanso being Alfanso, I can't just leave it alone as is without a few twists.  Changes include the shape (obviously), using 100% hydration AP levain, and dropping the overall hydration down to 70%, an Abe suggestion, (but wasn't really as low as 70%, shhh).  I also didn't have any anise seeds on hand so I went with my backup and added a splash or two (two!) of Ouzo to compensate, raising the hydration a tad.  

When, after ~7 hours, there was no growth I consulted with swami Abe and he suggested that I add a jolt of commercial yeast.  Miniscule grains of IDY, a liltle water (that hydration thang), and equal parts of two teaspoons each of bread flour and rye to mix, then slather on the dough and incorporate.  That did the trick and within an hour I had the start of growth and in another two hours it had grown more than 50%. 

Off it went into the refrigerator for an overnight snooze.  Shaped and couched this morning, and then back to the cooler.  The dough was surprisingly compliant to shaping after retard.  Being fearful of rye's sticky tendencies, I overdid the external flouring of the two loaves and couche and had to whisk off most before they entered the oven.

475dF for 13 minutes w/steam, rotated and steam released, another 10 minutes to ~205dF internal.  I'm partial to a dark bake, but these went a shade beyond that in a mere 10 minutes more  after the steam was released.

I took my best guess at the formula Abe provided, formatted for 500g x 2 baguettes/long batards.

after seeing these beauties!  I bought myself a new toy on sale.  A perforated baguette baking pan.  The two recipes included are a white flour baggie and a 300g/350g, wheat/white-rye flour baguette.  It's a sponge type preferment with yeast. No spices or flavourings mentioned (sounds a bit bland) but a tip to brush the shaped loaf with salt water and to try a variation adding 50g fried onions per baguette to the rye and wheat flour.

Still not having received my baking tools, I was looking for a simple rye recipe that wouldn't require any special equipment, without any malt powders etc. I had a bag of coarse rye schrot, and could only use whole grain rye flour - still not sure where to get light or medium rye. So I was scouring the ploetzblog and homebaking websites for options. Found this one: https://www.ploetzblog.de/2020/09/12/roggenbrot-mit-versaeuertem-schrot/ While it uses medium rye, typically whole rye flour can be used instead with perhaps a slight water adjustment (which is always needed anyway).

So I went ahead and otherwise followed the recipe very closely. Despite my starter not having been fed for quite some time, in the later morning about 13 hours after mixing the preferment looked and smelled very nice. Then the process was quite quick, just 30 min "bulk" fermentation, and then the bread is shaped and proofed. I degassed it quite thoroughly when shaping, in the recipe it's not really indicated how to shape it exactly, and whether to retain as much gas a possible or not. Then I made a change by proofing seem side up instead of down as per the recipe, and for baking flipped to bake seem side down. Just feels more natural to me. During proofing the dough expanded quite a bit and had clear holes and cracks. I probably could have baked it earlier than the recommended 90 min, but I was busy preparing lunch so just waited almost the full time. The dough didn't flatten when turned out, but also didn't get much oven spring. Got some cracks on the surface during baking. It was baking a long time, so I was worried about the crust being very hard, so a couple of minutes before taking it out I sprinked some water on the bread. I think it did soften the crust, but the look is much less appealing with grey flour on the surface instead of bright white with nice contrast.

I was planning to leave it until tomorrow to cut, but my girlfriend was hungry, so it was just cut open for a late night snack.

So despite early cutting it's not at all gummy but a little moist. Even slices well with a serrated knife, although a straight edge makes a cleaner cut.

Very flavourful, with some noticable acidity, but not overpowering. Nice rye flavour and pleasant texture. Also there is some lingering aftertaste of some kind of sharpness, like it's a bit spicy?.. Very interesting subtle flavour note. Highly recommend this recipe!

I personally like the aesthetics of free-form, cracked-surface rye loaves; here's an attempt at the basic (sourdough) rye bread recipe from Lutz Geißler and Björn Hollensteiner's "Brotbackbuch #2" - just rye flour, water, salt and (rye) starter.

I maintain a small quantity of rye starter so "stage 0" was feeding enough to have 60 grams of 100% hydration whole rye starter ready.

Sourdough stage 1 (Monheimer salt method): 60 g starter, 290 g whole rye flour, 325 g water, 6 grams of salt. The recipe calls for 20-24h at 20°C, but the sponge was clearly at/beyond peak after 18h so I went ahead with the bake. (The whole rye flour I used is from a local organic farmer - it is tasty but I have noticed its water uptake is lower than some other ryes I have baked with. The sponge was therefore very "wet" and this may have contributed to the activity).

Stage 2: Add 325g type 1150 rye flour, 130 g water (warm - 50C), and 7 grams of salt. Mixed with a sturdy spoon in a couple of stages over ~ 10 min, resulting in a modestly stiff pasty dough.

Bulk proofed for 2 hours at 24°C, then shaped into a boule. Shaping of 100% rye loaves remains a struggle for me, and I had to be quite generous with the flour. Placed into a (well-floured!) lined banneton, smooth side up. Generously dusted with flour and left to proof for a further 90 minutes. As the dough expands, it forms cracks on the surface; I dusted these with a bit further flour. (According to the recipe this helps promote a finer cracking pattern ... both in this bake and in the past I am not sure how much this really contributes).

With the oven and baking stone pre-warmed in the meanwhile, then came the hard part: the upper surface in the proofing basket also needs to be the upper surface for baking. With probably too much hesitation, I tossed the bread out of the basket and onto a piece of parchment paper for transfer into the oven; due to the hesitation the bread landed a bit on its side and the loaf was slightly lopsided as a consequence. Upon impact the bread spreads and the surface cracks widen, creating the contrasting surface appearance. Then into a 250C oven, steamed, and baked for 55 minutes with temperature dropping down to 210C over the bake. Smelled wonderful!

Waited overnight to slice in - although the crumb is not photographed so nicely here, it turned out nicely moist without being gummy at all, no "sticking to the knife" (there is a slightly denser region at very bottom of loaf visible, but not so noticable on eating). Nice "herby" flavor with a distinct sour note.

Now I'm out of 1150 rye flour - time to source some more, then perhaps will try a different style rye bread.

I unfortunately won’t be able to participate in this fine Rye CB which is getting off to a roaring start I must say.  So my only contribution will be my last two 100% rye bakes.

The first is my Tourte de Siegle.

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Apparently this bread is also known as tourte Auvergnate.  It is a 100% whole rye loaf and mine was made without any commercial yeast although I’ve seen recipes that use it in as a sponge along with the rye sour.  Those who are familiar with baking rye sourdoughs know that they ferment very quickly.  From building the first stage of the rye levain until the loaf is out of the oven only took 18 hours.  However, you’re also likely aware that rye breads need time to “cure” after baking so I think they are best if you wait 24-48 hours before slicing.  Based on my first bake of a 100% rye loaf I will wait 48 hours because I found that the rye flavour was more pronounced at 48 compared with 24 hours, and if you’re baking a 100% rye sourdough you want to taste the rye, no?

When recipes for rye say to flour the countertop or your hands, they do mean generously.  At the time of shaping I didn’t have quite enough flour down and was getting a ton of sticking.  Fortunately if you have your dough scraper handy, and of course you would, it is easy enough to get more flour under that sticky dough.  I use the word shape loosely because really you’re molding the dough into a boule.  Forget trying to create any tension, there isn’t the gluten of wheat in this dough so really you’re moulding it like clay.

Stage 1 sponge (Day 1, Evening):

Ingredient Grams 2x800g loaves 1x900 g loaf (0.5625) Baker’s

Percentage
Wholegrain rye flour 118 66 g 100%
Warm (105°F/41°C) water 118 66 g 100%
Rye sour culture 14 8 g 12%
Mix the sponge ingredients by hand, cover and ferment at room temperature (70°F/21°C) overnight, 10-12 hours. The sponge will have tripled in volume and be very bubbly.

Stage 2 sponge (Day 2, Morning):

Ingredient Grams 2x800 g loaves 1x900 g loaf Baker’s

Percentage
Stage 1 sponge 250 140 g 100%
Wholegrain rye flour 250 140 g 100%
Warm (105°F/41°C) water 250 140 g 100%
Combine the Stage 1 sponge and the Stage 2 ingredients in the mixer bowl, cover and ferment at room temperature until the dough has visibly expanded and shows cracks or broken bubbles, 1½-2 hours.

Final Dough (Day 2, Midday):

Combine the Stage 1 sponge and the Stage 2 ingredients in the mixer bowl, cover and ferment at room temperature until the dough has visibly expanded and shows cracks or broken bubbles, 1½-2 hours.

Final Dough (Day 2, Midday):

In the mixer bowl, combine the final dough ingredients and use the dough hook at low (KA2) speed to mix until fully blended into a soft, sticky dough that gathers around the hook but doesn’t leave the sides of the bowl, 5-6 minutes.
Cover the bowl and ferment at room temperature until the dough doubles in volume and shows cracks or broken bubbles, 1½-2 hours.
Turn the dough onto a well-floured work surface. Use floured hands to gently shape into a boule, then place boule seam side up in a floured linen-lined banneton or cloth-lined proofing basket. Cover and proof at room temperature until the dough has visibly expanded and shows cracks or broken bubbles, 20-30 minutes.
Preheat the oven to 445°F/230°C with the baking surface in the middle. Turn the loaf onto a well-floured peel, if using a baking stone, or a parchment-lined sheet pan.

Bake without steam for 15 minutes, then lower the temperature to 430°F/220°C and bake for an additional 15 minutes. Reduce the temperature again to 390°F/200°C and bake until the loaves thump when tapped with a finger and the internal temperature is at least 200°F/93°C, 30-40 minutes. Transfer to a rack and cool thoroughly before slicing.

My other was a Danish Sourdough Rye Rugbrod by Jennifer Lapidus 

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There have been quite a few posts lately regarding various rye breads, after finally getting my hands on a barley malt syrup, I decided I would try to bake one myself.  I had borrowed Southern Ground by Jennifer Lapidus and decided to try baking her Danish Rye bread since I had almost all the ingredients.  Being from the south of the US she includes sorghum syrup which I understand is common there, so I subbed the barley malt in for it.

Her recipe created a lot more levain than one needs, I didn’t check the calculations ahead of time and only realized that when the levain was being weighed, I’ve adjusted the recipe so there wouldn’t be any waste with future bakes. Her recipe was also for a 8x4” pan where I have a deep 9x4x4” Pullman so I think I would want to increase the final dough weight  even more than I already have in the future to get a slightly taller loaf.  That being said, it would be smart to actually taste this bread before baking it again in a larger size, I haven’t had a 100% rye bread in many many years so I don’t recall if I actually like them or not.

I wondered if I had underproofed the loaf given its short stature, but I think it would have torn as it baked if it was underproofed.  The final proof went much faster than the recipe estimated taking only 2h45min instead of the 4-8 hours.  When I saw a few holes appears on the top crust I started the oven and put the dough into the fridge to try to slow it down to avoid overproofing.  As always the crumb will be most important and I won’t slice it open until tomorrow afternoon at the earliest.

Because I keep such a small amount of starter I added a first stage levain build in order to make enough levain.  The ingredient weights for the 8x4” pan are from her book without adjustment other than adding the first stage.  The weights for the 9x4” pan are my adjusted to fit a 9x4” pan but not yet increased to make a larger/taller loaf.

YIELD: 1 (8 X 4-INCH) PAN LOAF

First stage 

10 g starter

40 g water

40 g whole rye flour

LEAVEN (8 TO 12 HOURS)

150g water

75g starter

100g whole-rye flour

SOAKER (8 TO 12 HOURS)

150g hulled pumpkin seeds

75g hulled sunflower seeds

100g cold water

DOUGH

113g warm water (about 85°F)

226g leaven

226g whole-rye flour

1½ teaspoons sorghum syrup or light molasses, I have barley malt

11.3g fine sea salt

soaker (above), drained

I would increase the ingredients by 50% if you wanted to fill the Pullman. 

1. Make the leaven: Measure the water into a small clear container with a lid, such as a widemouthed 1-quart mason jar, then add the starter. Using a spoon or your fingers, break apart the starter into the water. Add the flour and mix until fully incorporated. Cover and let stand at room temperature for at least 8 to 12 hours (it’s possible to let it go even longer, say, 14 hours), until fully developed (see image on this page).
2. Make the soaker: In a container with a lid, stir together the sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, and cold water. Cover and let stand at room temperature for 8 to 12 hours, then drain and set aside.
3. Make the dough: Once the leaven is fully developed, measure the water into a large bowl, then add the leaven and dissolve it in the water, breaking it apart with your fingers. Add the flour, sorghum syrup, salt, and drained soaker and mix until fully incorporated, squeezing and mixing all the ingredients together vigorously to make a smooth, claylike dough.
4. Final rise: Grease an 8 x 4-inch standard loaf pan with olive oil or butter (if you’re not vegan, the butter is more commonly used in this Danish bread).
5. Place the dough directly in the prepared pan, using wet hands to smooth the top of the loaf. Cover with a cotton or linen kitchen towel and proof at room temperature for 4 to 8 hours, until small holes appear in the top of the loaf. (The final proof time depends on how active your leaven is and the temperature of your kitchen.)
6. Bake: Preheat the oven to 450°F. Bake for 10 minutes, then lower the oven temperature to 350°F and bake for another 45 minutes, or until the internal temperature reads 206°F.
7. Remove from the oven and immediately transfer the bread from the pan to a cooling rack. Let cool completely, ideally for 24 hours, before slicing. If you would like a softer crust, remove the loaf from the pan and let cool for 10 minutes, then return it to the pan and let it cool completely.

My son, (The Prince of Pie) gave me a 5lb bag of farmers market organic stone-ground rye! I will be making the suggested recipe, maybe today? For now, please enjoy a previous bake, formula by my favorite "Rye Baker"

Spiced Honey Rye

Set your transporter to the French countryside. This French interpretation of gingerbread is lighter and quick to make due to the chemical leavening. I found it just sweet enough to go with your favorite jams or savory toppings. Another winner brought to us 

by Stanley Ginsberg!

Spiced Honey Bread. Martin Philip, from his book "Breaking Bread: A Baker's Journey Home in 75 Recipes".

I'd forgotten that I indeed did once bake a 100% rye in mini loaf pans, and was "featured" in the No Comfort Zone CB last March.  This is not a "new" bake for this CB by any means, but I have to backtrack on my earlier statement that I'd never baked anything north of ~44% rye until this CB.

The leavening agent in this bread is baking soda, which I’ve never used before for my breads. There is no water, but rather a combination of milk, honey and molasses to provide most of the 242% hydration. This bread uses 5 spices and orange zest, and has no Bulk Ferment.

Mix, pour, bake! The bread is designed for baby loaf pans 3.5" x 5.5”.

 Enough to pique my interest, and certainly a tasty "dessert" loaf, it is a more complicated pan loaf mix than the flavor warrants. Basically requiring the baker to empty out the kitchen cupboards for the ingredient list.  A bit too fussy for me.

It was a fun adventure at least this one time. Certainly more of a quick bread rather than an "artisan" bread.

Trying to work on some pretty spare formulas from Geissler and Brotdoc, with the "end-up-flipping" technique, giving the nicely cragged lines as shown above.  This one didn't quite get there, lol.  This is the "Landbrot Nach Alter Art" as described on Brotdoc's site.  I missed my DDT of 30C, and my "proofing" DIY chamber wasn't up to the set temp of 30C, so I extended the bulk fermentation from the formula's 30 minutes to 50 minutes.

Visually, a total mess.  The "end" surface, kept at bottom for proofing and up-ended for the bake, was way too loosely "crimped," as you can see by comparing Brotdoc's pic:

to my results:

And it was clearly not the same "glänzend,""shiny" or satiny quality of Brotdoc's loaf.  Very (differently/) caramelized, as well, without that nice golden hue, and blacker edges due to the severe tearing of my loaf. Basically, visually way off. I think I was hoping or some of the quality of earlier bakes along similar lines:

-but with that golden, satiny quality of Brotdoc's, without the flour "relief."

I have a tendency, especially when I don't know something well yet, to believe "if a little is good, a lot just has to be great!", so I'm wondering if I OD'ed on the pre-loading spritzing of the loaf.  I also really slathered on the water post-bake, though he does call for a generous dosing both pre- and -post bake.

Texturally and taste-wise, this is an excellent bread.  I'm loving the development of malty notes in these breads.  Comparing my crumb to Brotdoc's, my crumbs is still more tight and regular, less dramatic, less "seized up in the midst of a frenzy."  I used to be able to get this quality but it has been so many years ago; seems like now I can make a tasty bread with well-developed gluten chew, but cannot get open and irregular breads to save my life.  I suspect it must be rough pre-shaping or shaping, because I can't see any dramatic evidence of underproofing.  I deign to you guys here as well.

I'm doing Geissler's "Fröstlberg Malt Crust" and amended it slightly in two ways: rather than just a straight rye flour scald and maintenance at 75C, I added in 15 grams (active, brewing) rye malt flour and maintained the Malzstück at a saccharification range favoring alpha-amylase activity, 68C.  He calls for 8-12 hours and I only held it to 6 hours.  Especially at the a-amylase range, saccharification is almost entirely complete in 2 hours so I haven't yet figured out the purpose of this long 8-12 hold he has.  Anyone?

It also involves the "flipping" technique to get the loaf from the brotform to the peel.  More to report on this "Fröstlberg" later. 

This thread and these breads are astounding, and I'm learning a ton.  Thanks Abe and all.  Looking forward to so more.

edit:  whoops, bake log date obviously wrong.  It was done yesterday.

The above-mentioned Fröstlberg Malt Crust from Lutz Geißler.  The baking log, which includes my notes, is at bottom.

 Edit:  Don't know why some was nuked.  This is post-proof, which took 75 minutes:

 And this is final loaf.  60 minute bake and 5 minutes off for a total of 65 minutes.  Interior temp = 96 C.  The crust was really hard - toothbreakingly hard, which is something I've experienced with this type (e.g., Lutz's "Rauris Rye" or "Alpine" rounds).  This one has no steam.  Is this why?  I sprayed it prodigiously with water as I set it to cool.  Was that the right move, to soften the crust a bit?

I’ve been lurking on this site for a while, especially after I bought The Rye Baker. I seem to have caught rye fever at the exact same time as many others.

I had hoped to contribute a Horst Bandel Black Pumpernickel, but I over-hydrated the dough and it didn’t turn out well enough to show anyone.

So here is Sweet Limpa from the rye baker. It is very quick and easy, and produces a sweet and tender loaf. I had no idea 100% rye could turn out like this.

I’ll probably be back in a few days with a better attempt at the Horst Bandel.

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Okay, I would like to play along even though I am not sure what I am doing with a 50% rye in the dough, as I have never done that before. Are you sure 50% rye will be good enough to play here?

Anyway, I have just put together a biga as pictured below. It will ferment for 48 hours before I use it. It consists of 50% dark rye, 40% bread, and 5% WW for a 95% preferment. The left over 5% will be a 60% hydration levain. 

Hadjiandreou's 100% rye with caraway & grapefruit zest.

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I couldn't have done this without amazing help from Abe and MiniOven (see https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/69750/hadjiandreous-corianderorange-zest-100-rye)

It's a flavorful & easy recipe ...

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... once you figure out two steps Hadjiandreou was a bit unspecific with:

--cover the levain completely with the dry ingredients before adding the boiled water & then stir it all together.

--Hadjiandreou proofs hot -- starting at 50C/120F

Enjoy!

Rob

The blog post: "Rye Flour Classification: Untangling the Mess" by Stanley Ginsberg.

He explains the confusion over "light, medium, dark" and "dark vs whole" and "flour vs meal vs pumpernickel".

http://theryebaker.com/rye-flour/

Bottom line: There is no industry-wide agreement over what the names and adjectives mean, so the buyer may have to ask for specifications like ash %.

For example: At Bob's Red Mill, they call their whole rye "dark rye."  But at Bay State Milling, "dark rye" means whole rye that has had a portion of its endosperm removed. Hence their dark rye is darker (has a higher % of bran and germ) than even whole grain (100% extraction) rye!

If you're confused, this is the article to read.

I've started some rye sprouts to make solod for a Borodinsky, I'm very intrigued by manipulating (essentially) a single ingredient for such depth of flavor, but since that seems to be a week(s) long project, I would like to fit in a quick Rugbrod before this after seeing a few posts above.  How do people generally mill rye for Rugbrod?  For whole wheat loaves, the rule of thumb is *usually* as-fine-as-possible-for-your-mill, for example, "stones just barely ticking", etc.  The main exceptions seem to be coarse soakers for added texture, etc.  I recall one post suggesting rye generally benefits from a coarser default grind in order to achieve the right consistency or viscosity that is needed to achieve structure that is provided by gluten in wheat loaves.  How do people usually think about home milling rye for 100% rye loaves?   

I've been working on them already made a few so won't post here.  These are "Roggenmischbroten," the mixed ryes that are the breads consumed popularly and daily by German folks.  The spare ingredients are like a constraining practice arena, to me, good place to open up to new flavors and techniques,

I thought it might be interesting for some folks to see this graph based on an informal survey Brotdoc did, regarding the preference Germans had for their types of bread.  I was not surprised by some, and very surprised by others.  See what you think:

I'd just like to add, I don't want to take up the bandwidth gushing about what I'm seeing, so I'll do it here as a general statement of appreciation  I'm utterly blown away by the beautiful, inspirational breads here.  The creativity is mind-blowing and the mastery is very humbling.  In a word, you guys kick my ass and you're a goal worthy to work towards.

Paul

Otherwise known as South Tyrol Farmers' Bread.

Recipe link and more details can be found in my blog post here.

Lance

Here is my bake of Rugbrod [LINK], by Jennifer Lapidus, thanks to Benny's detailed notes above in this thread.  Thanks to the other recent TFL Rugbrod bakers for directing my attention to this one.  I used a home milled whole rye at a fine setting for the bake.  I really like the flavor in this simple bread relative to my previous bakes of Vollkornbrot, and I'll be comparing these recipes to understand the differences.

I've seen a previous comment saying that instead of docking or spraying with water one thing you can do is pour whey on top prior to going into the oven?

This was the comment "There was a baker on this site a few years ago that formed her whole wheat dough in the pan and then poured whey (left over from kefir) into the pan until it just covered the dough. When she baked it, the liquid evaporated and she had a shiny crusted,dark brown loaf with no steaming needed."

Is this a good idea? My loaf for this community bake already in bulk and this is my "phone a friend" question!

-Jon

Lithuanian Rye - Stanley Ginsberg.  Just out of the oven, cooiing now.** Can't recall who recently did this or even if it was from the site, sorry guys.  But Never made it before and now I'm pretty inspired to try Borodinsky again (my first was an epic fail).  Will try Rus Brot's 1940 version.

** Mini, sorry, a bit fried having had only a couple hours sleep last night, but it's unclear what you'd recommend for a rye from this point (hot, right out of the oven) forward.  I understand this is a very different bread (and crust) like the moonscapes above - this one had a potato starch glaze painted on the last 5 minutes  of the bake - but may I ask your process from now until slicing (and beyond)?  Apologies again if you've covered it, and obviously feel free to refer me to the post or posts.  Thanks.

Crumb:

Love this bread. There is a delicious backdrop of malty sweetness that cries out for salt: cured or cold-smoked salmon.  Can't wait to work on Riga and Borodinsky breads now.

Just a note I actually contacted Monica Drax, the owner of the Drax Mill out of Rechtmering, Bavaria, Germany.  About 45 minutes east of Munich and the place looks beautiful.  Brotdoc and another whose blog I can't recall both spoke very highly of her and her mill.  They carry the Type 2500.  If she writes back I'll share what she had to say.  

Sesame raisin walnut 65rye/35spelt 100% whole-grain loaf

Details of this bake can be found in my blog post. 

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Ok, screwed up this post.  The crumb shot above is several days later in natural light.  Notice the crust definition fading into the crumb.  The crumb did darken a little bit.  It's almost gone and getting better every day.  We will be fighting over that last slice for sure.

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I've been interested in trying Mini's Dark Rye & Chia loaf, since we came into possession of more chia seeds than we can otherwise use.  This recipe seems to yield pretty outrageous oven spring for rye [LINK].  I'm curious how much the chia alters the final proof?  My rye experience is limited and I've never baked with chia.  I've made one Vollkornbrot recipe that calls for a 30% rise, and the Rugbrod (above) in this CB, which looks for a few pinholes on top.  I'm curious if the chia gel traps more CO2 in a way that would suggest a different proofing strategy (a bigger rise in the final proof, for example).  Do we still see pinholes?

Just to settle the R 2500 idea - I'm part of a German FB page run by Brotdoc and a member there pointed out to me that indeed R 2500 is basically a rye equivalent to wheat's first clear.  It's in Ginsberg's book, pg. 29..."like first clear wheat flour, the leavings of milled rye after the lighter grades have been sifted out...."

Might be fun to do some bolting, even though it's imperfect, and make an ersatz "2500."

Not to beat a dead horse but I think it's pretty cool Monica Drax herself responded to my query.  Nice lady, and a quality mill.  Would love to visit them,

Danke für Ihr Schreiben.

 

Gerne können wir Ihnen weiterhelfen. Bei dem Schwarzroggenmehl handelt es sich um ein Mehl, dass nur aus der mittleren Randschicht des Korn in der Produktion „herausgesiebt“ wird. In der beigefügten Grafik ist dies in dem „PINK“ markiertem Bereich zu sehen. Wenn Sie dies einem amerikanischen Müller erklären, wird er gleich verstehen wie dies zustande kommt. Bei den letzten Mahlungspassagen kann es gezogen werden. Leider ist dieser Prozess nicht durch mischen von Mehl und Kleie oder selbst mahlen mit einer kleinen Haushaltsmühle möglich.

 

Ein Tipp von mir! Sieben Sie Ihr feines Vollkornmehl über ein 0,5mm Sieb. Zumindest ist es einen Versuch Wert!

Beste Grüße nach Übersee und bis bald in der Drax-Mühle,

 

MONIKA DRAX"

 

My German isn't that good so I'm afraid it's Google on this one:

Thanks for your writing.

 

We are happy to help you. The black rye flour is a flour that is only “sifted out” from the middle surface layer of the grain during production. This can be seen in the attached graphic in the area marked "PINK". If you explain this to an American miller, he will immediately understand how this happens. It can be pulled during the last grinding passages. Unfortunately, this process is not possible by mixing flour and bran or grinding it yourself with a small household grinder.

 

A tip from me! Sieve your fine wholemeal flour through a 0.5mm sieve. At least it's worth a try!

 

Best regards overseas and see you soon at the Drax mill,

 

That is serious selectivity!!!

My second entry (third overall 100% rye bake), based on Denisa's formula. This time with coarsely ground home-milled rye, 1 tbsp of ground/toasted bread spice, some whole sesame seeds, whole sunflower seeds, whole flaxseeds, 1/2 tsp whole caraway, and 1/2 tsp whole fennel as soaked add-ins. Topped with raw pumpkin seeds.

https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/69816/83rd-bake-01282022-denisas-100-rye-take-3

I had some senior moments and forgot the salt and sweetener. But with some melted salted butter, the bread is wunderbar.

Rye rolls. 55% rye flour, 45% wheat flour. So cute.

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My bad. I got the concept now - previously posted on my blog

Here's my response to the Community Bake - Rye Bread, the Franconia Crusty Boule  /  Frankisches Krustenbrot (Germany) from The Rye Baker by Stanley Ginsberg

I am quite pleased with this bake. I really enjoy the added bread spice called Brotgewürz however the next time I make this bread I'll increase the amount. I can see how this bread goes with savory foods and dark beers and veined cheeses.

How about a slice of Rye Gingerbread (LINK) for dessert? Slightly bending the rules, but it is a "bread" of sorts. 100% KA medium rye with a nice clove kick, which I like (I used to chew Adams Clove Gum as a kid).