February 22, 2019 - 5:17pm
Oat flaker?
I'm looking for an Oat Flaker for home use. The Komo models at PHG primarily have my attention. What are the good models and brands at various common price points for reasonable household quantities of flaked grains, in my case mainly oats?
I see the hand crank model at ~$140 and the electric one at ~$460. Is the electric model really worth ~$300 more than the hand crank model? What else should I consider like noise or possibly other things? Or, how about different brands that may be better or worse than the two Komo units I'm looking at?
TIA,
Sid
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I have been very satisfied with my Komo FlicFloc for the past year or two that I've owned it. I've put all kinds of grains and pulses through it without any problems other than those attributable to my not taking soaked seeds down to the right moisture point prior to flaking - knowledge that comes with trial and error where errors are minor misdemeanors, not felonies. The only complaint one might have with its operation is that it's slow going. The mechanical advantage of the FlicFloc's mechanism is somewhat greater (or would that be less?) than it needs to be, imho. That is, you can often turn it with your pinkie, depending on what grain you're flaking. Thus it's easy to turn, but slow to process if you want to fill a quart mason with product. Like pedaling a 10-speed on a level road in first gear. Easy but slow. The importance of that downside depends on what kind of volume you envision running through it. But overall a brilliantly engineered device. Highly recommended.
Happy flaking,
Tom
You can seriously flake beans, lentils, etc? I never imagined that.
I use a Schnitzer with steel rollers. Stone rollers are also available. To get big flakes and minimal flour, one must moisten the groats and wait a few hours. It's easy to crank, but one must crank rapidly to keep the intake flowing. A thumb is needed to keep the exhaust chute clear. Not recommended for more than a few cups at a time.
Grainmaker makes a large, expensive flaker.
The Grainmaker mill and flaker sure are nice. If I was flaking for cattle and other livestock, sure but, it is just way too big to be practical for me.
You can flake anything small enough to be grabbed by the rollers. Dal sized lentils are fine. Split peas, not so good. Forget garbanzos, but split small garbanzos [= Chana dal] can work. South Indian chutneys call for frying dry dal but I prefer to soak any and all legumes before use and drying down and flaking them flat has worked nicely for chutney. I've also put other soaked, dried legumes through and used them here and there. They cook a lot faster when reduced to two dimensions beforehand by the FlicFloc. Same goes for brown rice, in a big way, but that's for another thread. A flaker is one of those tools that invites experimentation.
Tom
Thanks Tom! That is pretty interesting though, I don't think I'll be flaking many legumes right now but, who knows where things will end up once I have one!
https://pleasanthillgrain.com/marcato-marga-mulino-multigrain-flaker
it is a wonderful piece of equipment. It works perfectly. I bought mine through " google express" and lucked on to a $20 off coupon for first time purchasers. So it was $86.99 not the $106 they list it for many places or the $119 listed here. So you can shop around. It will flake all but the hardest like corn. You need to wet the grain , except oat groats, before you flake it and then let it dry a few hours . This softens it enough to flake. It is plenty for home use. Also it is better not to flake ahead as the germ is now exposed and since it isn't being steam treated as commercial oats is your home flaked grains will be rancid in short order if stored at room temp. Hope this helps your search. c
Now that you've had it awhile, do you still love this flaker? What are the cleaning requirements? I'm considering a compact hand-crank since there are only 2 of us, plus bread-baking. No space for an electric flaker. Thanks!
I’m not going to be a lot of help at present. I haven’t been making any bread since late Summer last year as our house has been having an extensive remodel so I had no real kitchen. I haven’t flaked grain since then.
when I used it I can tell you there are no cleaning requirements except to brush it out with the included brush. If you try to flake grain that is too wet it will clog up and then you do have more effort to get it clean but you will know immediately if the grain is too wet. the Marcato is heavy duty and made very well.
you don’t soak the oats so it isn’t a problem to flake them. They do quite well with the Marcato but they don’t look like the commercial perfect flakes. You end up with more crushed ones instead of all perfect flakes.
that said they still cook to a nice porridge for bread and I had really good luck soaking, drying and then flaking barley. It was my favorite. Make sure and toast the flakes grain before you cook it, it really brings out the flavor especially the barley! .
good luck
it is suggested for all grains but oats that you wet the grain in a sieve then let it rest a few hours then flake. The commercial oats are steamed and dried thus killing the germ. So I don’t have any oat groats. I wet 100 g of Kamut and let it air dry for 4 hrs. Flaked it and this is what I got. Very pretty and smells wonderful!
Caroline, is it a slow process to flake? How long for 100g kamut?
...like I need another appliance :-D
Danny
is all it takes. You have to turn the crank and let the grains flow through. I used the brush that came with the mill to help the grains continue to flow through. It isn't anything arduous :) just getting used to the whole process and also I started with wheat not oats. I like the " hands on" process rather than a motor. c
Do you mean that oat groats are already steamed and dried? Or only that commercially flaked oats are?
Oat groats intended for human consumption are heat treated to prevent rancidity.
Edit: So-called Hulless Oats Avena nuda are not treated. They can be sprouted.
Ah, understood. Thanks!
I've found that spelt is the hands-down favorite for creating picture perfect flakes. For some reason, overnight soaking of spelt and drying it in the dehydrator without heat until it is surface-dry to the touch yields absolutely perfect, intact flakes and almost no grit or flour. Every other grain I've flaked breaks up to some extent with or without soaking/drying. Spelt is just destined to be flaked. Just wish we liked the taste of it more ?.
On the other hand, producing perfect intact single seed derived flakes is not absolutely required for all grains processed through a flaker. At the other end of the spectrum is unsoaked raw brown rice. It comes out as broken flakes and cooks up in only 20 minutes into a slice-able, polenta-like cake. Good news is even with just salt added to the cooking water, it tastes infinitely better than hour-long cooked intact brown rice. I now firmly believe that brown rice's bad rap comes from the decidedly negative flavor consequences of typically having to boil the life out of the intact grains for an hour or more to render them edible. And simple additions to the cooking water of flaked brown rice elevate it to delectable levels: Saffron is hard to beat, but various curry powders, garam masala, powdered bottarga or even just a bullion cube all create a product that mercifully resembles not at all the cardboardy blandness of typical brown rice.
So there's my pitch (again) for flaked, cooked, flavored brown rice. And no, I am not on the Lundberg's payroll.
Tom
On another board where I lurked briefly, a brown rice discussion took place. One person, who shared your opinion of the standard method of cooking it, had just got a rice cooker or pressure cooker or something (I can't remember what) and came back a while later saying she liked brown rice now. It's definitely the cooking method that makes the difference, at least if you include flaking as a possible part of cooking methods. It seems that "Just simmer it in an ordinary pot", which works fine for white rice, doesn't do that well with brown rice.
several different grains at different moisture levels. I weighed the kamut before and after soaking. A 100g sample after brief wetting was 125. At 4 hrs it was 112g. That is when I rolled it. I plan to do the same measurements/timing with other grains and see what happens as far as texture etc. I am using the grains for soakers to make breads not to eat as breakfast porridge. When I get the oat groats that Breadtopia just got in stock I will try it without and with soaking and let y'all know how that goes.
Always interesting things to try . c
Any opinions about this one? Stumbled on it while browsing Amazon and Ebay (the only places that seem to sell it). Grainmiller.com thinks it's well-built, but Pleasant Hill Grain doesn't carry it so I wonder if that's a clue about the product.
The short list for a compact hand-crank flaker includes the KoMo Flocino and the Marcato Murina mentioned above. Only 2 of us, plus whatever I use in baking. I want adjustable thickness.
There isn’t adjustable thickness with the Marcato as far as flaking. The other settings on it give you different grinds as in milling not flaking. There are only two of us also and flaking ahead in volume would require freezing the flakes grain or at least refrigerating to prevent it getting rancid as the germ is exposed when flakes. Hope this helps. c
Caroline, a few years back I bought a KoMo Flockino. It has been a huge disappointment since day one. Should have returned it :-(
Do you find the adjustable rollers to be a great option?
Have you used the adjustments or do you just leave it a one setting?
Looks like either the Marga Mulino or FlicFlo are the two I am presently considering.
Thanks,
Danny
Thanks for the info on the wetting procedure, also for the pasta machine - I happen to have one of those. Hadn't heard of that use, so now I'll have to dig it out. The new Marga looks good, but I'll try the pasta rollers first. Got derailed with other things the past several months.
Your flakes looks the best of all I’ve seen. I do have manual pasta machine, but since the rollers are smooth, I wonder how they would pull the grain into them.
The Flockino does have adjustable steel rollers.
Yes, I did follow your link in another post explaining 2 cups of oats and 2-3 tablespoons water in a sealed container. Shake and store overnight. Nice procedure but the flaker still didn’t work great. PHG wants me to send the flaker back so they can take a look. Darren told me that is the unit he uses and he likes it.
Not tablespoons so perhaps your grains were too moist! The Marga is smooth rollers and gravity pulls them in. So pasta machine is the same. Worth a try.
im glad they want it back... they are very reputable folks! Gold star for them.
if I were getting the Marga again I’d seek out the newest one on the link I sent you. I saw it on line for $80’s and $90’s. I love the bins.
Mine was actually free! I ordered it online from an Italian market and it didn’t ever come and tracking showed it was delivered in Pennsylvania!!! So they credited to me. I ordered from another place and before it shipped the first one showed up! I cancelled the new order, called the other place to tell them it showed up and they said they couldn’t charge me again so keep it ... well that’s what I did . But I hated it till now! Now I’m flaking up a storm. I love porridge breads. So moist and taste full!!
Definitely use lots of other grains and then make sure to toast them for full flavor. So far barley and rye have tons of flavor.
as an aside the 1000g and over boules in the small graniteware pan with a couple ice cubes have the BEST bloom . So there is definitely something to the idea that a large loaf in a small pot does best due to higher steam even without the ice cubes it’s very noticeable.
and the addition of salt late is also true as I’ve found it on all loaves now that I’m adding salt and the wet porridge after the autolyse of the main dough.
learning new tricks. Keep us posted Dan
Caroline, the new Marga Mulino has knurled aluminum anodized rollers. I’m not really sure if I used tablespoons or teaspoons., but the oats were not wet the next day. They sat overnight. Darren with PHG told me that he didn’t wet his oats. I’ve tried it all ways.
You said that your rollers were smooth, but your images doesn’t seem to indicate that. The image below is from a reply you posted elsewhere.
I tried my pasta roller using THIS INFORMATION. Most of the oats failed to be pulled in.
I just but a Marga Mulino Flaker from THIS SITE. The reason I went with them and not Pleasant Hill Grain (my favorite source) is because one Marga has aluminum rollers and another model has steel. I definitely want steel!
The units with the clear trays have aluminum and the ones with the white trays are steel rollers.
I thought other potential buyers might find this interesting. With shipping the price is $100.
The grains definitely do NOT feel or look wet the next day . The moisture is internalized sufficiently to soften the grain for flaking but NOT to any noticeable degree as far as how they feel before OR after rolling.
The rollers on my flaker made 2018 are steel and smooth throughout. The unit is 6#!
Hm as far as how they appear after rolling I can’t attribute that to the rollers at all as they are smooth so it’s a feature of how they respond when rolled.
Darren’s outcome isn’t something I can speak to as I have never flaked oats , only barley and rye and Einkorn. I couldn’t get even one grain to flatten with these till I wet the grains overnight. I’ll likely try oats someday but at present I have enough other grains to keep me busy.
So you bought another flaker? Do try something other than oats and do use 3-4 teaspoons water with 2 c grain. Put on the smallest roller width and please post back. I surely hope you have great results!! If you saw my video you know it was easy and perfect outcome with the HARDEST grain out there according to everything I’ve read.
good luck! I’m not baking again until May!!! Travel after vaccination!!! c
for your feedback on the KoMo, Danny. It's helpful to hear from experienced bakers I trust rather than random product reviewers.
I have the same flaker Caroline does. Her process for pre-hydrating the grain before flaking helps considerably. To the point where I now use it again (it had started collecting dust).
Of note, my expectations were not realistic. I was expecting flakes exactly like the ones you get from Bob's RM, or Quaker, etc. Even with hydration, mine do not come out the same as that, and I have since learned they are not ever likely to do so. But I still find it worth doing. The flavor of everything I have flaked is much better, not unlike the flavor comparison between freshly milled flour vs store bought. So far I mostly make porridge of various kinds, but do plan on making porridge bread in the near future.
Oh and my limited experience with trying to use the flaker to make flour was less than impressive. I haven't tried to do that since learning her process. And I now have a Mockmill ?. I may need to plan a science experiment between the two, just for fun.
Mary
I linked above in my reply to Dan about the new model. It says definitely does flour and has recipes. There is a video as well. I can't see any difference other than the the plastic bins which would be nice but mine has 6 settings if you count the dots between each number. I don't think I would soak if I was going to try and make flour but it is a must if you are doing flakes.
I think you should try 4 tsp of water and leave it 2 days and see what you get when flaking and try different settings as well. I'm going to do that next time...which won't be till May as I will be traveling til then so no baking. c
I have both the hand and electric Komo flakers. The hand/manual ine is not adjustable. Ended up buying the electric. Approximately $600 later, basically counter art. I keep trying to experiment with soaking and drying, which is a pain but all I get a basically lumpy flour. I too should have returned both immediately. The electric one, I had to put shims in, to keep the insides from moving around and hitting the wood. Design flaw. So disappointing and buyer remorse.
I’ve used my Molino a lot and the pre wet /let rest overnight/ flake still works just fine with all the grains I’ve tried. I’ve done Emmer, Barley, Spelt and Einkorn. I do stop and use the brush that came with the flaker to loosen any stuck pieces but that’s not that awful to do. The grains flake distinctly differently depending on which grain it is. I toast them in an iron skillet with butter. I always make enough for 4 big loaves of 900 g each. That’s 400 g of flakes. The komo flaker isn’t very expensive and Breadtopia has amazing customer service. I’d give it a try!
So you soak, dry, toast then flake for bread? Recipe?
I have linked previously to the method . Put two cups of grain and two Tbsp water into a container with tight fitting lid. Shake off and on for 20-30 min till there are no grains sticking to the sides of the container, this indicates the water has dispersed throughout the grains. Leave at room temp 24 hrs. Remove and flake a few to make sure of moisture level. Too sticky put out on a sheet pan and leave for a short time to dry a bit or if not flaking easily close container and leave a bit longer . The next time having recorded the results you can adjust the water/grain/ time ratio . Every grain will be different but I haven’t found it excessively different or difficult. I have the anodized steel with aluminum rollers from Italy as the All Steel wasn’t available when I purchased mine. It’s fine but since there was an error from the shippers on mine I ultimately pd nothing for my Mulino mill. I’m thinking of purchasing the All Steel after seeing Dan’s report. Good luck and I hope you will have better luck with the dampening method. c
Woodsie, I am an avid fan of KoMo products. But their oat flaker (Flockino) has been a huge disappointment. After a couple of disappointing years, I abandoned it and bought an All Steel. I am happy with it.
BUT
You mentioned oat flour. None of those units are designed to turn out flour. For that, I think you'd need a grain mill.
HTH,
Danny
I was just saying it doesn’t make decent oats, it destroys the groats, into basically chunky flour. I will keep trying to figure out the correct equation to soaking and drying before I flake my oats and hopefully I can figure it out and not feel like I have completely wasted a huge chunk of money. I love my Komo mill and use it every day.
Woodie please reply with the model of your KoMo mill
I got the Schnitzer hand crank model with steel burs several months ago and have been happy with it. It mounts on the countertop and works well in our small space for the volumes we need. I don't have anything to compare it to, however. What a difference in flavor!
Campo-Steinwalze.jpg
That flaker seems to be rebranded by several different companies.
Salzburger seems to offer this model with different wood types in their construction. Whether they are the OEM or not is a mystery.
Unfortunately, with shipping charges for most of them being ~50% of the cost of the flaker, I'm not sure there is much of a market for them in the USA. Now if I lived in the EU with VAT and free (or near-free) shipping, I'd buy one online if it wasn't available locally. 45 to 90 Euros for shipping is simply too much for a ~120 Euro flaker IMHO.
I am so much happier with my flaker. I have experimented this week. Groats in a jar, little water shake shake, sit over night. Perfect . 2 cups if groats, 2 tablespoons water. Thanks!!!
A5FDF82E-7AE0-4373-AA52-D081880B8A36.jpeg
Looks wonderful!!!!! You are doing great! Now try other grains! You will be amazed at how barley tastes after flaking toast in a skillet preferably iron over low heat with butter. Don’t burn it!!! Then cook with 2x water weight of grain in double boiler just til water absorbed. Let cool. Add your honey and yogurt to it to loosen and add to your flour with levain to make porridge bread. It’s heavenly. Can use any rye or wheat grains as well. Einkorn has to soak the longest as it’s really hard….2 days. Please post back
Thanks!
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/blog/trailrunner
you can sub an equivalent levain instead of mixed ones and not use YW if you don't have any. It will all work. Depending on how wet your porridge is you can judge your water for the dough. I always hold back till I'm sure how much I will need. The YW makes the breads very moist as does the yogurt and the butter. It's a wonderful combination. Good Luck c