March 15, 2021 - 12:25am
underproofed?
here we go again sigh. after a few good bakes i think this one is underproofed. not sure what the heck i did wrong this time
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here we go again sigh. after a few good bakes i think this one is underproofed. not sure what the heck i did wrong this time
feeling a bit discouraged again. These 2 loaves came from the same batch of dough which i divided after autolysing. the one on the left had about an hour more for BF because i thought it fermented slower than the one on the right because the container had an opening which didn't insulate the dough enough and got colder. so i shaped the one on the right first. i have to let the one on the left cool before seeing the crumb. i should have scored them the same way to compare properly, but i didnt'. i weighed the dough when i divided it so they are the exact same weight.any thoughts so far?
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Can one hour make such a huge difference?
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But I think it’s your scoring that made such a difference. The reason I think that is because I make 4 batches of loaves at once and the first batch will get more bulk fermenting time time than the last batch, and my loaves all come out pretty consistently. I use straight sided containers so I can see how much each batch rises and I base my time to divide and pre shape on that rather than time. I do keep my batches on the counter in cooler temps until they are all mixed and then I put them in a warm spot to rise (oven with the lights on). So my question to you is that did they rise equally before you shaped them?
thanks for trying to help Danni . They were in different type containers so i couldn't tell if they rose equally. the one that i waited to shape, i felt rose slower (that's why i waited) because i didn't realize the lid had an opening which let heat escape (surrounding temperature was lower than the dough temp right after the last fold) . i have the crumbshot for the left loaf now. i think when i divided the dough after the autolyse there was some inequality there. because one dough felt wetter than the other. i can't remember which loaf that was. i think it was the left loaf than was wetter because i remember it was more slack when i was shaping it. anyway, i think the both might have been underproofed. i decided i better start keeping a bread diary. i can't remember what the heck i have done. these loaves are 10% whole wheat whereas my nicer loaves are only 4% ww i think, but not totally sure .
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feature here to keep track of my bakes. It’s really helpful over time.
Can one hour make such a huge difference?
In a word, YES.
The image below was taken from Tom Cucuzza’s YouTube video. (Near the 30 minute mark)
Notice that between 4 hr 30 minutes and 5 hr that the dough double in expansion. A dough tends to rise exponentially as the time increases.
This video may interest you.
https://youtu.be/4yM-gKlGX5Y
Danny
Thanks. I’m glad it’s normal that for the first few hours my dough seems to be doing nothing. I often worry,thinking it will never rise
Starter, levains, and bread doughs all have a “lag time” in the beginning of the ferment. But as fermentation starts it goes quicker and quicker. 2 microbes become 4 and 4 become 8 and so on... A thousand becomes a million and a million becomes A LOT. <LOL>
I would also like to know what exactly you don't like about the loaf.
also, try to photograph with light shining on the crumb instead of in its own shadow. :)
Hi Mini
I'm happy with the second loaf but not so much the first. The crumb doesn't look "right". Still tastes good though. I'm not happy because i really liked the way this loaf turned out. (the one below which i've probably posted a hundred times lol) BTW that's not mold. it's a blob of rosemary Are they like children? We shouldn't compare them? Lol
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Scoring...perhaps this helps... think of the dough skin as a container for the free standing loaf. If you look at the two loaves side by side, I notice the right sides of each loaf have enough "skin" to create almost identical shoulders. The left sides show the scoring difference, the left loaf holding or containing the loaf, the right loaf giving way, pushed outwards as the crumb expands. It looks like the lower the score, the less it supports.
Very observant Mini. the loaf on the right i was desperately trying to make an ear. i scored the side of the loaf (rather than the top) almost at an angle almost parallel to the loaf. i saw that technique online and thought i'd give it a try. i wasn't happy with the result so for the second loaf i decided to just score it straight down the center in one swift motion and not as deep at a 90 degree angle. No ear but better oven spring. Do you think the scoring affected the crumb of my flatter loaf? I was not happy with that crumb.
the picture below was what i was aiming for
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I think the scoring does affect the shape of the loaf and that is because it is affecting the crumb. The location of the score directs the dough to expand in the oven in the direction of the score. With a more lateral score a vast majority of the dough has greater resistance to expansion upwards because of the tension in the unscored dough surface.
but there are subtitles. It’s very relevant to this discussion. I remember seeing this a few years ago.
https://youtu.be/Sn0INYBr1fA
Very interesting indeed, thank you for sharing. He scores the bread so violently, I think I must learn to do scoring like that, I'm much more hesitant, especially when the lame starts to snag.
Going back to the original post - is the decorative wheat score beneficial for the crumb and shape in any way - often times I'll see a central deep score for an ear, but that video is now making me wonder about the decorative scores too.
> especially when the lame starts to snag.
One helpful tip I got from Trevor Wilson's Open Crumb Mastery was that snagging is often due to keeping the lame too perpendicular during scoring. The short edge of the razor isn't sharp, so it will snag when it comes in contact with the dough. Making sure to keep a sharper angle of 25 or 30 degrees gives the short edge more clearance, which has significantly reduced snagging in my experience.
Interesting indeed. I’ll be paying more attention to scoring. As a beginner I think I should keep practicing the same one til I get good at if
Yes i think the biggest evidence of this was when i scored my raisin loaf with 3 cuts almost perpendicular to the loaf sort of like baguette, the shape became long. I've decided to give up on the silly fantasy of ears. I just can't get it right so it's affecting my oven spring and crumb.