Hooch appearing just before 12 hours.
Let me just start off by letting you know my problem and followed by everything I can try and disclose about my culture to avoid repeated questions.
I started it last night around 10:30pm, woke up this morning and there is about 1 inch of hooch, It's my first attempt at ever attempting sourdo and I have just followed the instructions. Instructions were followed by where I purchased my dehydrated sourdo (sourdo.com). Italian culture which was purchased 3 years ago and held in my freezer up until last night. Yea, don't ask me why I waited 3 years to use it haha.
I will post the activation instructions as instructed by the PDF in the bottom. Using large mason jar, Bakers Roses flour, spring water and of course the dehydrated yeast. I am located in Toronto (Canada) where the weather currently sits at 4 degrees C (39F). I put the lid on without tightening it and put a cloth over the top of it, then I situated it inside a kitchen cabinet. Now another thing I noticed was that the activation instructions says to discard some of it every time I apply a feeding but it doesn't specify how much exactly and that's also another challenge I am facing.
Anyone who has experience with this culture or the experts on here to please advise me if I should continue following the instructions mentioned or revise them, as well as letting me know how much to discard. Thank you kindly!
Activation: Mix well all of the dried culture with 105 grams of flour (¾ cup) and 225 grams of warm water (1 cup). The proof (fermentation) is started at close to 32o C (90o F). This temperature stimulates the lactobacilli to rapidly acidify the culture which prevents contamination by nonsourdough organisms found in almost all flours. At the end of the first 24 hours a few bubbles may appear as the first sign of growth and activity. Subsequent feedings should be140 grams of flour (1 cup) and 170 grams water (¾ cup) at approximately 12 hour intervals with the temperature reduced to around 21o C (70o F) which favors the growth and activity of the wild yeast. Each feeding will require discarding some of the mixture or the jar will overflow. This is an opportunity to start a second jar to serve as a backup if required. Activation is complete when the foam and bubbles of the mixture increase the volume in the small jar by 2 to 3 inches within 2 to 4 hours of the last feeding. Now the culture is ready for baking or it can be refrigerated until needed. During refrigeration a clear light brown liquid (hooch) forms a layer on the surface. This is normal and is stirred back in when the culture is used.
Did you get the culture up into the high 80's or 90° F for the first 24 hours? If not, then do it first before anthing else. Next, not hooch but water and flour separation. Stirring never hurts it. Give it a whirl. Hooch takes a bit more action than what you've got. Be patient. Do not discard too soon or before the first and second feedings after the first 24 hours.
Save the first discarding in a jar and chill it in the refrigerator or cold pantry as back-up "just in case."
Mini, two web sources say Bakers Roses is bleached. Might that be it?
https://www.parthenonfoods.com/products/bakers-roses-all-purpose-flour-20kg-44lb
If it's bleached than what do I do?
(Phaz to the rescue.)
Thicken the mixture to a wet dough like consistency, keep warm, stir, don't feed until it shows hefty activity - like rising. Once it does that go with normal feeding. Bleached flour isn't a concern in this case as you are activating a starter, not starting one. Enjoy!
Ok I can do that, what ratio flour:water do you recommend? I'm still new to all of this. Thank you.
means just adding a bit of flour, no water, so add slowly and stir in before adding more flour. It won't take much, just a few spoonfulls, one at a time. Keep it soft. Then let it show you what it can do. :)
OK I will give it a shot, this morning I did notice there was no liquid and it did rise. Should I resume regular feeding or make the dough a little thicker like you mentioned?
it means something is actively stirring up the culture so there is little or no separation. A good sign. Take that little rise also for a good sign and dont discard yet. Give it some flour to thicken it up and keep watching.
Awesome great feedback!! So now this begs the question, some say because it's been in the freezer for 3 years it killed all the bacteria. Could this fermentation be due to the bacteria it collected from my kitchen or is the quick rise due to the current bacteria from the actual culture? I know it's a loaded question but really curious to know if you can help me understand. Thank you!
bacteria. I think you can now figure out the rest.
D). All the above plus some from the flour.
Next question.... :)
Yes it worked thanks!!! This morning I noticed the culture rose above the mason jar and onto the counter. Also, every time I feed the culture I put the discard into a secondary jar, however I'm using the same jar for every discarded culture so the mason jar has bit and pieces from 4 different days. Is that ok?
the size of the starter or bake something. Or get a bigger jar.
A starter culture can be reduced easy enough. Then reduce the amount of flour and water at the same ratios.
Right now, how much active starter are you saving and how much are you feeding it?
An active starter needs headspace to peak, plan about 4 to 5 times expansion to be on the safe side and slip a bowl under the jar to help clean-up and protect surfaces.
I would have saved the first discard ( it contained more of the original culture) kept it separate while dumping the following discards. Anyway, now that the starter culture has taking off, Bake bread with the next discard to reduce starter culture size and then feed a smaller starter. You can always feed it more to make a larger starter. Keeping it small will save you a lot of flour and is more economical.
" Also, every time I feed the culture I put the discard into a secondary jar, however I'm using the same jar for every discarded culture so the mason jar has bit and pieces from 4 different days. Is that ok?"
I'm not clear on when you began saving these discards. I'll defer to Mini Oven, as she knows more about starters than I do.
But AFAIK, you don't want the discards from before the starter stabilized and achieved the proper balance of Lactic Acid Bacteria versus yeast, and then fed a few more times.
You want to make sure the acid has killed off the "bad" bacteria, and, I suppose, the detritus has been diluted out with a few feedings.
In other words, until the main body/container of starter is first ready to bake with, the discards up to that point should not be baked with, just thrown out in the trash or compost.
You said you started this on the 25th, and now it's the 29th. AFAIK, the first 4 days are not suitable to bake with.
Mini: is that correct?
Yeah well I'm pretty sure I started saving my first discard once the liquid dissipated, the starter was right about starting to yield results and now every 12 hours I'm feeding it and throwing the discard in the same mason jar as the previous discards. At this point I know I am just wasting flour but I'm really keeping it alive just to see and experiment with how the process works. I purchased 10KG bag of Bakers Roses flour for $4CDN from a restaurant distribution warehouse so I am not too worried about wasting flour.
I was doing 140F/130W/140S and now I'm doing 1:1:1 ratio (100g each). I will probably make my first bread tomorrow.
I just now read where Mini said to do that as a back-up, not to bake with. Now it makes sense. Sorry for butting in.
20201030_000739.jpg
Not bad for my first attempt. Thanks every one for the feedback.
Wow!
You were sand-bagging us. You've made bread before, right?
scouts honor. first time baking sourdough bread with a conventional oven.
Yes, I believe you about it being your first sourdough bread. But, you've made regular (yeasted) bread before, correct ? That is what I meant,
Your above loaf is superb. Contratulations. Most of us make loaves that look like pancakes or bricks the first few times we attempt sourdough.
You got oven spring, blisters (a good thing), and open crumb. A trifecta!
Next step... dry out some of your starter as a "backup".
Here's a good video: https://breadtopia.com/drying-sourdough-starter-for-long-term-storage/
Then to reactivate: https://breadtopia.com/starter_instructions/
Yeah first time making sourdough and second time baking bread ever. My first bake was last year which was a similar shaped bread but used commercial yeast and not sourdough. I will continue reading about storing my culture now, it's all a learning curve for me and I have every one on here to thank! Thanks for the support and the resources!
Beautiful and congratulations!
Mini
Oh and of course for anyone wondering which recipe I've used, here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNzJLP61nnQ