September 14, 2008 - 9:39am
ugly loaves
ok, all the loaves i made out of my large amount of starter , during the second rise started breaking open, i don't mean getting a dry crust on them and cracking i mean just breaking open and they look terrible but the flavor is good, no need to score them with all that opening its like insted of stretching the ball to double size they just break open and double
they rise fine, just not pretty and i want to do some scoreing darn it lol
any ideas on this anyone else had this problem
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sounds like my low hydration loaves made with 10% protein flour. Essentlially you do not have good enough gluten development. I suspect you either need to hydrate more or knead more.
Sounds like you need more water in the dough.
Rudy
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My TFL Blog Page
ok sounds good next weekend ill try that,
right now i'm up to my elbows in bread lol
Post a picture if you can, eh? I just had the same deal today - I have 4 starters going and I fed them all today and reduced them down to a reasonable amount in the 'fridge. I was thinking of your situation too. I had a total of 650g of starter left over, rye, whole wheat, white, and an apple ferment thing. I mixed them all together and added enough flour and water to get to 80% hydration. I was working on shaping and came out with the best bâtard I've ever done.
:-Paul
*Remember to stop and smell the flours*
awesome pics i'll se about posting some when i figure it out
see thats the scoreing i want j did 1 boule i think thats what the round loaf is called lol and 2 loaves in loaf pans
Check out my new post "peach leavened bread" I baked it this morning.
:-∆aul
here they are see how the tops are they rose fine just broke open
They don't look ugly to me. They look nicely browned and I like the split crust - it's a feature. Did you want the tops to be smooth?
:-∆aul
yes smooth enough to score i made the round one for my daughter and i wanted to score it for her but it did the same thing all lumpy and stuff but it was the first to get eaten lol i don't have this problem with my other bread with commercial yeast
i think i just need to make more to figure it out plus i need some scales so i can be more accurate with my starter
and sorry i didn't get back to you sooner my comp was acting up
If you really are going to be persistent with this, you need to get a scale. All the serious recipes have their ingredients listed in ounces or grams. I got my scale just a few weeks ago. I did an experiment and weighed what I measured as "one cup" of flour several different times, just to see. My measurements varied from 150 grams to 168 grams of my white flour. When you scoop out a cup it's often packed some, and that's different from scoop to scoop. So that was interesting.
Also, when people mention "hydration" what they mean is the amount of water relative to the amount of flour. So, a very wet dough at 80% hydration means it has 80 grams of water for every 100 grams of flour (or 8 oz.water to every 10 oz. flour if you were measuring in ounces) A drier dough, say 60% hydration, would have 60 grams of water for every 100 grams of flour. It's an important concept.
If I were making a recipe that called for 3 cups of flour, that could be (3 x 150 grams) 450 grams or (3 x 168 grams) 504 grams, depending on how I scooped out my cups. My hydration would be different so the dough would behave differently. But if I were weighing my flour, it would always be the proper weight that the recipe called for and I'd be less likely to get a surprise result.
So get a scale! :-)
:-∆aul
yes i told my wife today that i wanted to get a digital scale for that reason and all the hydration stuff is new to me , good explanation on hydration by the way thanks maybe this weekend i'll get a scale or soon anyways any ideas on how to keep the bread fresh longer without freezing them
All I know about bread storage is that a paper bag is recommended rather than plastic, if storing at room temperature. Short of freezing you might try the 'fridge. Also, sourdough stays fresh longer than regular bread. In The Bread Baker's Apprentice (maybe available from your library?) Peter Reinhart describes some baker in France who prefers his bread on the third day after the bake. He (Peter Reinhart) describes people buying these huge (3 pounds or bigger) sourdough loaves and the family eating it for the week. Again, some people like the second day best, some the forth and so on. You like sourdough already, so you've got a leg up there.
Those scales aren't too expensive, either. $20 - $40, right in that range.
:-∆aul
Quite a bit of research has been done on the effect of different temperatures on bread. Fridges are the worst. Store your bread at room temperature or freeze. Use paper bags for room temp storage, as Paul said, that is if you want to keep the crust crusty. If softer bread doesn't bother you, plastic bags are fine. But take care that the bread is completely cool before bagging.
No problem with freezing really, especially if your freezer temp stays constant. Just don't refreeze. That puts your bread in the staling zone over and over as it freezes and thaws, freezes and thaws! As with all food for the freezer, moisture and vapour-proof wrappings or bags are best.
My favorite storage facility is my tummy. :-P That's really good info, apprentice, I sure didn't know it. Thanks
:-∆aul
I've also read never to store bread in the fridge in a number of places, and I was curious why that was. Depending on what is in my bread and how long it will take me to eat it, it's fairly common for me to store my sandwich loaves in Ziplock bags in the fridge. The crust loses all crispiness of course, but for me that's not a big con for sandwich loaves, and I haven't noticed any other problems.
What am I missing? Why is fridge storage so disparaged? Or is it just another instance of my peculiar tastes?
Disclaimer: not a scientist but these things fascinate me. Here's an excerpt from How Baking Works by Paula Figoni. Great book on the fundamentals of baking science imo.
Starch retrogradation is a process in which straight-chained amylose starch molecules in a cooked or baked and cooled product bond more and more closely over time, increasing structure. It's as if the starch molecules wish to return --"retro"-- to the tightly bonded state of ungelatinized starch granules...When starch retrogrades in baked goods, the soft crumb becomes dry, hard, and crumbly. In other words, starch retrogradation is the cause of staling in baked goods...can be delayed by storing products at room temperature or in the freezer--not in the refrigerator, where retrogradation is fastest...
Staling is also slowed by adding ingredients that physically interfere with the process. But we won't go there! I agree with the comment that tummies are the best storage facility for bread! In short, if you go through your bread fast enough, storing in the fridge isn't a problem.
Carol
Oops, I don't know how this got here. I didn't have anything to say and somehow a message got posted anyway. Oh well...
the texture looks fine to me and i am sure they tast good. let me ask you this how did you shape them. one of them looks like the seem was on the top and that cauld cause that effect. did youscore the loaf with a knife befor baking to give the bread a place to open.n scoring and that could cause the bursting.
like i said eather way they look fine to me and the tast is what matters. my mother aswaly said no matter what it looks like at the start everything looks the same at the end.
seams on bottom and they broke open durring the second rise when i shaped them they were smooth and uniform as they rose they started breaking open after about 1 hr and kept getting worse they didn't dry crack they were oiled and rose in cool oven around 80 degrees or so
and as far as storage i agree now after having my loaves for about a week ,that room temp is good, cause i have kept mine in the cake carrier (wich is in the pic above ) sense they were made and still good yesterday i put one back in the loaf pan and in the oven with foil over it for a bit and then removed the foil for a bit and wow back to cripy and close to what they were when they were fresh baked
and paul wow i can't beleave you would post without talking about some kind of bread, lol , kidding ,
and thanks for all the info you guys share with me it helps alot
:-)
:-Paul