Diamant Grain Mill or GrainMaker® Model No.116?
I am considering getting a grain mill and I am a "buy once, cry once" kind of guy with things like this. Credible recent reviews for both of these seem few and far between. Diamant reviews suggest teflon bearings or bronze/brass bushings as being a bad thing. The GrainMaker® weighs less, has a shorter handle, smaller flywheel, etc. with some comments about the grain hopper being fragile and having sharp edges. The GrainMaker® burrs and bearings appear to be better. In terms of motorizing, I realize the GrainMaker® has that option from the factory but, I have no issue with doing it myself with the Diamant at some point in the future.
While I prefer to buy "American", I have no issue with European products and generally find their quality to be superior and their purchase prices to be higher. European products in general are designed to last multiple generations and are generally well thought out so, that is something I consider with purchases like this.
What are the pro and cons between these two grain mills? I am primarily looking to grind wheat into flour but, I also want to grind other grains. I am not into nut butters but, who knows, in a decade or two I may be into those too.
I also realize that neither is a bad choice so, no matter which way I go I won't make a bad choice. I just want to make the best choice for me. I am also seriously considering getting the GrainMaker® Flaker Mill so, that probably tips things in favor of the GrainMaker® 116.
TIA and Best Regards,
Sid
I will say that it is a wonderful mill. It can do just about anything, however claims it can do nut butters and mill oily "grains" are exaggerated. But if you are milling wheat-like grains (rye, spelt, triticale, (non oily)amaranth, etc) or corn of any kind, it is a fabulous mill. You can mill from rough crack to silky fine with one set of burrs - although several sets are available. If you make a mistake and put something oily or damp through it, you can take it apart and clean up the mess you made. The steel burrs allow you to "remill" aready milled grain which allows you to do things you simply cannot with stone burrs. I love mine.
That being said, I purchased mine before the Grainmaker was manufactured. If I were looking for a manual mill today, I probably would tilt slightly towards the Grainmaker. If I really cared about nut butters or oily grains, I would have to see an actual demonstration that the Grainmaker could mill those - as claims for those seem often to be exaggerated (see above).
However, in my estimation, they are both fine manual mills. To my eye the Diamant is more beautiful. I love mine (did I mention that?) These two mills are the ne plus ultra in manual mills. People speak fondly of the Country Living mill, but I have used one of those and it is a tiny toy compared with the Diamant.
When people talk about these two mills, I always tend to ask why they are so set on a manual mill. Because as much as I love my Diamant, I have a Komo electric mill that does yeoman's work for my baking. No, it is not as versatile, nor will it mill as finely as the Diamant, but I love the convenience of hitting a switch and getting flour. It is lightweight and doesn't need to be bolted permanently to a very sturdy base. All of this for much less than the base price on the two manual mills and certainly way less than motorizing them. For me, the Diamant is reserved for "special" milling and experimental milling, because, frankly, it is just more time and effort, but I do these two things and so it still earns its keep.
I'm happy to discuss further, however, it is a rare occaision that I look in at TFL these days, so please either reply directly to this post or send me a PM so that I will be notified.
Hope this helps.
If you don't mind me asking why does not remilling with stone burrs work?
but my answer may not be up to my usual level of research.
First - some professional millers scoff at the thought of remilling,
First (and a half) - the professional milling texts that I have read don't desccribe that technique wth stone miling.
Second- I have been strenously warned by the manufacturers of my mill not to do it or I will risk damage to the stones. I would suppose that they might clog.
When bwraith and I were having "fun with milling and sifting", I used a remilling technique with my mill whereas he simply milled large amounts of flour (through his stone mill) and sifted it into a number of fractions. I don't think he ever ran the siftings through the mill again and I assume he had good reasons for it.
Since every now and then I feel discretion is the better part of valor (and since I have steel burrs in my arsenal of milling) I have not run the experiment to see what happens .
So really, I am guilty of passing on second hand information. If you have data that suggests otherwise, I would be most interested.
Hope this helps.
But is not gradual reduction just that - remilling of sifted out middlings? And gradual reduction certainly has been developed in the age of stone milling.
concede that point.
Perhaps it is a matter of my brand of mill with the way the spacing on the stones is done. I was thinking about it further and that might be an issue that if one is milling what is essentially flour rather than grain. Even when you talk about middlings there's a lot of variation there. Are the middlings big enough that they act like grain with the stones? How coarse is coarse? Good question.
Anyway, not wanting to damage my particular brand of mill (and that was what I was discussing in my original post) I've not tried it, nor would I tell others that they can do it.
There really is a lack of information for the adventurous home miller. When I speak to people about milling on steel burrs, they kind of glaze over. When I speak about remilling on stones, I get the same look. They mill once, sift if they are so inclined, and then are done.
Perhaps it's a forgotten technology and requires a more hands on approach to setting the gap between the stones, or perhaps a different way of dressing the stones for remilling. I honestly do not know. Surely today's professional miller with roller mill technology at his or her command, isn't going to bother which is why I don't find it mentioned anywhere when I go to professional texts. And the bakers who are "milling their own" are putting energy into baking rather than the milling itself, with a pass through the mill being the way to get fresh flour.
If you've ever worked with bran that has been remilled it is a very desirable substance (and I have heard of it being available in France, but that is hearsay since I have never seen it) so certainly you would think someone would be doing it - and maybe even on stones.
Anson Mills has a proprietary technology that essentially mills bran as finely as the endosperrm (which would be the primary reason for remilling) but they aren't about to let me know what it is and it most likely does not involve stone milling.
And yes, I can take two stones and in a very manual process do just about anything (I did this with some of my exploration of milling Hopi Red Dye Amaranth - none of which is written about on these pages) but again, that's not quite where the 21st century home miller is heading.
So I'm serious when I say that if you can find someone who actually does remilling on stones, I would be interested.But in all practicality, I would not tell a potential mill owner that is is possible unless I understood why, on that brand of mill, with that process, it is.
As an intellectual puzzle this is going to niggle at me. From a practical perspective, my stone mill won't do it and I find it really hard to justify getting another type of mill just to find out. Although I have been wrong about vows not to get another mill before...
But thanks for a thought provoking conversation.
Hello!
I've been browsing through many a forum on home mills trying to decide what kind of electric mill to get, and when I came across this one I made an account so that I could respond. I'm not sure if this is exactly what you were wondering about, but I have a Wondermill Junior Deluxe that I run by hand and have used to mill the bran that I sift off my flour. It starts out as fluffy flakes and then (with a fair amount of effort) turns into a fine, light (though certainly not silky) powder. I haven't had any issues with clogging the mill from re-milling the bran, as I have from trying to re-mill flour.
Hope that resolves some of those niggling thoughts!
I'd be interested in hearing your opinion about KitchenAid grain mill.
If it's anything like my KutchenAid Professional 600, I would avoid it like plague. The first time I tried kneading six cups of dough, I was going to knead it for ten minutes. After seven minutes, smoke was literally coming from the motor and the thermal breaker was tripped.
I still have use my KA for general mixing. I also have the cutting/shredder tool for making Cole slaw. I also have the sausage tool, but have not used it yet. I also have the food strainer, which was retired this year in favor of a Victorio strainer.
I bought the KA because of its reputation as a workhorse. And I'm sorry I did. For kneading dough, I wish I had known about the Bosche mixer. I may still buy the Bosche anyway, for holiday baking and kneading pizza dough, because that would literally kill my KA.
As for a grain mill, this month I ordered a Grain Maker #99. From what I've seen and read, I expect it to exceed my already high expectations.
I have a refurb of that model and burned out the front gears early on. Turns out the build did not include near enough grease for the gears. Bought a new gear set, then packed the gear box (I mean full) of food grade grease. Runs much quieter, and can handle up to 2 kilos of bread flour making fairly dense pretzel buns with no problems. Run it for 10 minutes and yea it gets a bit warm, but otherwise runs like a charm. Something to consider to get yours to work better.
I'll keep that in mind. I haven't used my KA that much, especially since migrating to home-milled flour for baking, and my Victorio for food straining. Making cole slaw, garlic mashed potatoes, and whipped cream has been about it.
Thank you Proth!
I read several of your comments on the Diamant grain mill but, I don't recall the KoMo being mentioned. The weight and price point are both nice but, I have mixed feelings on the natural wood texture in my farm kitchen. Does this mill heat the flour and kill some of the nutrition? The size and weight certainly are attractive to me as it would be much easier to put away and would be more apt to be used daily (thinking of a coffee maker for example). The inability to use flax, sesame or, popcorn is a concern however. How do these mills (Diamant, KoMo, etc.) do flaking grains if you don't have a machine with the rollers?
I am looking more for regular corn and wheat for normal breads with the other less common grains as supplements to the flour for experimentation and special needs. Dry beans and similar are not on the horizon for me at this time but, it is nice to know I 'could' grind them if things change at my house. Being able to grind my own corn is high on my list as well as wheat based flour.
I am primarily thinking about Cornbread and related options, Wheat based flat breads, loaves and biscuits, and fresh cereals from cracked grains (without the artificial colors, beet sugar, and other chemistry concoctions). I have had limited experience with cheap grain mills that convinced me to skip that intermediate step. While I don't need super fine flour for delicate baking I do want consistent high quality fresh flour.
TIA,
Sid
Sid,
If you buy a Diamant or a Grainmaker mill, please do not think in terms of "putting away" - the Diamant, at least, will be permanently bolted to a table or a work surface (it weighs about 50 pounds) and if the Grainmaker claims to have clamps (which they do), please investigate as they would have to be some strong clamps - I would expect it would do better with bolts also.
This "heat the flour" stuff rattles around the milling world like some kind of boogey man. You are taking the flour and then baking it. Why do you care if it gets heated a few degrees? But just for grins, I took the temperature of the flour off the Komo after I had ground about a pound of it. 80 or so degrees Farenheit. Cooler than a hot Kansas afternoon if you ask me. I don't get exercised about the temperature.
As far as I know, the Diamant does not do flaking of grains (nor does the Komo), and from my quick look you would need to buy a separate flaking mill from Grainmaker at an eye popping $1000+ for flaking.(You didn't think one mill did both, did you?) No home mill that I know of does both. I have a Komo Flicfloc for flaking. It is a cute little thing at about $100+. Depends on how much you need to flake, but it works well. Komo sells a mill that combines a flour mill and a flaker in one cabinet - but they are two distinct pieces of technology.
I've never done flax seed in the Diamant, but I have a ongoing mistrust (born of experience) about it grinding oily seeds. My quick view of the Grainmaker website didn't find claims for oily seeds, but as I said it was a quick view. With the money you save on not buying both a Grainmaker mill and flaker you might be able to buy a coffee grinder. Many people use these for the limited amounts of ground flax seed that they actually need.
The Komo won't do popcorn (which many people like to use for cornbread) but it will do "dent" corn - which is typically what you would use for baking. You might want to contact Pleasant Hill Grain about these mills - there is quite a range - with different cabinets that might better suit your decor.
Only you can decide if grinding popcorn is worth the increment in effort, space, and expense that would move you from a Komo to a Grainmaker or Diamant.
I have made 50% whole wheat puff pastry with flour from the Komo (as well as nearly all whole wheat croissants and 100% whole wheat brioche). Yes, the Diamant can grind whole wheat that feels like silk - at the expense of sifting and remilling, but the Komo flour is perfectly fine for a wide range of applications.
In no way is the Komo a "cheap" mill. It is a quality mill with a good warranty.
My old posts on the Diamant are just that - old posts. I also own a Nutrimill (which only has price going for it in my view) because I wanted to gain experience with a few different types of mills. This is an area of interest for me - and I own a couple of flaking mills also - just so I can speak well to differences.
And those posts of mine are old because (and I will repeat) I don't check into TFL much anymore. The fact that you got an answer from me speaks to the fact that today is an atypical day - so please, if you want further information "reply" to my post (as I did to yours) so I will get a notification.
Hope this helps.
Pat
Pat, thanks for the post. Glad to see I am not the only one with a plethora of mills. I have the Komo, the Lee Household, the All Grain, and had a Whisper Mill, now Wondermill, which i think is similar in design to the Nutrimill ( assuming you have the impact version) , and a steel burr machine . I agree with you that, at least as to the stone mills, temperature is not an issue, though the Whisper Mill did put out flour much quicker, and much warmer, than the other machines. I also find that while the Komo has some real pluses, mine won't grind as fine the Lee, though it is on a par with the All Grain. I never gave any serious consideration to a manual mill, because reviews suggested it took a lot of effort, and I prefer hitting a switch and coming back to a container of flour.
A question for you barryvabeach…in regards to the Lee Household mill. I too have several mills and this is the first I have read about the Lee mill. Hard to find info. but someone did post here back in 2009 giving a review on the machine.
She seemed to like the mill and the flour it produced but stated that the cleaning made it somewhat of a hassle to use. Another person made the same complaint which, they said, was the reason that they didn't mill often.
t am curious as to which mill of yours is your most frequently used mill and why if you care to reply :)
My favorite mill to date are the KoMo mills due to ease of use and clean up plus the grind choices. I mill daily and throughout the day when it is time to feed my leaven so ease of cleaning is very important to me. I also like that I can see exactly what is being produced as it is milling rather than dealing with a closed hopper. I also like the aesthetics of the KoMo mills :)
Thanks,
Janet
Thanks Proth!
No worries on the flaker vs. mill question. Some people use a coarse mill setting to simulate a flaker for something like steel cut oats but, I want a real flaker.
The KoMo Flocino flaker is only ~$140 at my door. A KoMo Fidibus 21 grain mill is ~$400 or, a Mockmill is only ~$200. I have a shot at a GrainMaker® Flaker Mill for a really good price so, if that deal comes through I will most likely buy it and wait a little while for a grain mill.
I am questioning whether I will use a big grain mill enough to justify the purchase or, if I should just opt for the cheaper KoMo Fidibus 21. I REALLY LIKE the bigger household/farmstead grain mills though so, do I spend ~$400 on a small handy mill or save up for the one I really want but may not use as often at a ~$1K?
TIA,
Sid
And, regarding heat. I'm not overly concerned but, as a child I had some experience with an electric one that heated the flour a lot. I really never did get into homemade bread with that flour as it always tasted "off" to me.
I agree that a few degrees of heating isn't a concern. But enough to slightly burn the flour is way too much.
Janet, I have a few of the Lees, the S6, the 6, and and even earlier version, and have owned a few more. What I believe to be the earliest model had about 6 screws to hold the faceplate in place, and the circular stone was glued in place, so there I don't think it was designed to be opened and cleaned. Later models had two screws with slots, that were used to hold the faceplate on, and the stone was not glued in place, so it could be opened, the stone taken out, the steel disc behind that removed, and then cleaned. The newest model I have, a White S6 has screws that are knurled, so that they can be undone without a screwdriver. The progression suggests that as the models changed in age, they tried to make it easier to clean, though I confess I very rarely clean mine. I have had a few where the stones were very close in size to the opening so that they were tricky to get them in and out, on others, the stone was loose enough that it came in and out easily, I don't think that was intentional on behalf of Lee, I am guessing that is just the tolerances of manufacturers.
I have opened a number of other machines , such as the All Grain - which uses socket head cap screws - which I assume is not meant to be opened, and found about the same remnants of flour as the Lee, the same is true of another one I have, which is similar to the Excalibur. I think the suggestion that they need to be cleaned is a modern one, and I don't believe it, or follow it. There will always be some flour in any machine ( Even the Whisper Mill, which is an impact, had some flour end up around the motor, and there is no way anyone would expect the consumer to open it up to that point) I don't think ground flour in a machine attracts pantry moths - so I don't see that as a concern. To the extent a teaspoon or so sticks on the inside of the machine, if in fact it falls loose the next time it is used, I use them regularly enough, that the flour should still be good. If it sticks there forever, it may in fact go bad, but so long as it is still stuck to the inside, I don't care. I should point out that each machine I have I bought used, and did take them apart ( in some cases down to replacing the bearings, so much more so than ordinary cleaning), and each had some residue of flour somewhere in them from prior use.
Sorry for such a long answer, but my point was for years it seems that having a little flour in the machine was not a big issue. Not sure what is driving the need to clean them.
My favorite for fine flour is the LEE. However, it takes up quite a bit of space, and takes quite a bit longer than the Komo. So I use the Komo to grind flour that I will use right then, but more often use the Lee because I think that finer flour is usually better for baking and pizza, though I am just guessing at that point. I agree with you about esthetics, I keep the Komo in the house, the Lee is in the garage, and I have it on a stand designed so the flour discharges into a plastic container. I never liked the idea of trying to get flour out of a collection bag. Also, I have taken the Komo apart once or twice to clean it, but it is not something I do often.
If I didn't have the Lee, I would be perfectly happy with the Komo. I only bought the Komo because I heard such good things about it, and liked the compact size, that I wanted to see how it worked.
Thank you for the response. Once I thought about I did wonder why people would take it apart after each use. Like you I only clean my KoMos on occasion - like when I mill too much soft grain, oats for instance, and the stones bind up. Easy to clean. I love the simplicity. One of mine just stopped working, still under warranty, so I had to send it off for repairs but, in the future when it is no longer under warranty, I will probably keep an extra motor on hand to repair myself…it is that easy to do due to the design.
I gotta ask…Why so many mills? Do you bake professionally? I though I had a lot, 4, but you have outdone me :)
If I had it do to over again I might consider a Lee but as you said space and convenience. My KoMos work great for the breads I bake and if I want finer flour I can resort to my NutrMill but I really do not like that machine due to noise level and difficulty of getting to the grain once it is milled….not a huge job but it gets tedious when milling several times a day. With the KoMos all I do is grab the bowl out from under the spout and I am good to go.
Again, thanks for your detailed response. I do appreciate it!
Janet
Janet, no great answer for why so many mills, though I have given away a few to family and friends, and may resell a few on ebay. I do like to see how they work, and most cost less than $100, sometimes due to missing pieces. My only slight issue with the Komo is that the spout is a little low, so that if I put my normal amount of berries, I can't just walk away because the flour will start to back up towards the spout. If I started with a Komo, I probably would not have bought any of the others, but when I first started it was pretty expensive just to see if I wanted to home mill. I think that is one draw back to home milling. The cost of a new mill is pretty high, and unlike a mixer, which you can use for other things if you decide you don't want to bake bread, a flour mill is pretty much a single purpose use, and if you decide you don't like to mill flour, you are out a fair amount of money. You are right that the noise level of the impact mills like the Nutrimill is pretty loud, and I out grew my impact mill pretty soon after I got it. Barry.
Makes sense. I outgrew NM too and sold it to a friend about a year ago but just purchased another one when one of my KoMos went on the blink. I bake daily and realized that I do need an extra mill on hand and the NM is the least expensive and was locally available. (KoMo has already been diagnosed, broken switch, and on its way home in less than a weeks time. I LOVE the people at Pleasant Hill Grain)
Lesson learned. So when passing your other mills on - hold on to one for one of those ' just in case' situations.
I found bowls that sit perfectly under the spout and no longer have the spilling over issue with the KoMos.
Thanks for sharing.
Janet
Janet, right now I am still "holding on" to 4 or 5, so I am good. As to the Komo, the motor is pretty heavy duty and it would be pretty hard to burn it up unless you really abused it - like setting the stones to touch. How much flour do you grind at one time that it fits in a bowl without having to move it around? I usually go for just under a quart, and have the shake the bowl a few times to redistribute the flour.
I own a grainmaker 99 but it’s fairly hard to use and bulky for my kitchen. I love the flour and i can also make fresh masa. I’m considering buying the electric motor attachment but it’s more than the mill st $1000!
What komo model might I enjoy better?
I have the classic and love it. It is well built, long lasting (12 yr warranty), and a work of art. Pleasant Hill Grain (USA) is a great place to begin. They are the US importers for KoMo. Their tech staff is A, #1.
Danny
I grind about 500g - 700g at a time. Bowl I use is an Emile Henry mixing bowl. Tall and deep.
The Retsel Mil-Rite with stones or steel has no problem re-milling the coarse fraction. Falls Mill in Tenn uses stones for corn and re-mills the coarse fraction.
Forgive me if it has already been said, but I have read a review that the Teflon berrings on the Diamant will flake off over time and end up in your flour. Has anyone else experienced this?
I was reading through this old thread and wondered what you ended up with.
I have the GrainMaker, and really enjoy it. I ended up buying the electric option shortly after buying the mill. I cannot think of one negative comment to say about the mill. I have not seen or used the Diamant mill, so I do not want to say anything about them.
I would post a picture of mine, but I don't know how to put one in this post.
Satch
Which Grainmaker do you have?
Is it true that a significant amount of grain remains in the mill at the conclusion of milling?
Hi,
I have he model 99 with the direct-connect electric motor. In my mill, there is never any grain left over. I pull the auger and clean everything after each use. I clean it each time because my son's specific carbohydrate diet uses some grains that my diabetic diet does not allow, otherwise, I would just wipe down the outside after use and put the cover back on.
I can not think of one thing negative about this mill or the company that makes it.
I spent $1,700 for this mill with all of it's accessories, and I am getting ready to buy the flaker which is $1,200. It might seem high, but I believe that they are worth every penny. I highly recommend them.
click on my avitar. It is of my actual mill with the cover on it and the electric motor attached. I could still use the fly wheel and handle to crank it if I wanted, but the electric motor is much nicer.
i have the GM 99 - considering the motor and flakes too. Does the motor add a lot of weight/space? Do you know if flanker will do quinoa?
also thinking of the komo since it’s less than the motor for GM so would appreciate any input.
What is remilling? Is this milling the bran sifted from flour and if so how is it used?
Hi, I love my GM with motor. The wheel became too much effort after my third heart surgery. The motor is well worth having, for me.
I mounted my on the island and never move it. The motor doesn’t get in my way and the weight doesn’t matter to me as I don’t move it. I couldn’t guess it’s weight, but it does weight a few pounds I’m sure. I have not used a flaker so again, I am of no help. Sorry.
I will mention that the equipment I’ve purchased are all top notch, problem free and work flawlessly. I would expect the flaker to do be of the same quality.
Good luck and enjoy.
Hi, My GM has been awesome. After a few years of work, the brass bushings in the electric motor drive unit started drying out a bit. This started making a slight squeak while it turned. Easy cure, pull cover and smear the grease in there around a little, making sure to put some on the brass bushing. There are two bushings, and it's easy to get to both if you want. This process worked fine and cured the squeak. I emailed the folks who made and sold the mill to me. They knew of this squeak happening on the early models that used brass bushings instead of bearings. The later ones have a bearing thing instead of brass bushing. Anyway, they offered to send me a pre paid UPS label so I could ship the motor back to them and they would upgrade it. Awesome. I took them up on this. I removed the motor and drive unit and using the free shipping label they emailed me, I sent it back to them. Quick repair. Easy to do. No cost to me what so ever. I love their Customer Service and I love their Mill. I could not be happier. Awesome in all aspects.
Steve
Thanks Steve!
Did you buy yours direct from the maker or through a reseller?
Hi,
Yes, I bought it straight from manufacturer. I live on the east coast and had it shipped to me. They also will give a discount now and then. I called and asked, they gave me 10% for being retired military.
They are an awesome company to do business with and their customer service is top shelf! They are the kind of company a person wants to do business with. Very glad I bought straight from them.
Cheers,
Steve
Also,
The model 99 size has fine for us. I weigh my grain before I mill it and have never filled the hopper enough to come up to the safety grate, let alone fill it all the way. With the motor, I wouldn’t mind if I had to grind multiple loads, but the 99 has been plenty for the three of us. The larger one must be just as awesome as mine, but can grind more, faster, and hold a bit more in the hopper. The GrainMaker is a fantastic mill, any which way you want to go.
Thanks Steve! Positive feedback for a small manufacture is nice. Quality products are often overlooked in today's mass-market 'cheap and disposable' options.
It is a bit like my expresso maker. Mass-market brands have their place but, a nice European unit is at a totally different level of enjoyment and quality.
I'll add that I love my GM 116 - I bought it about 7 yrs ago. The clamp holds it very well to a countertop. It never wanders or comes loose. I have been hand cranking it for all these years. It produces very close to 2gr per revolution so if I need a specific amount I can count cranks. At 60 rpm, I produce about 120gr/min. I have measured the temps of the ground flour - at very fine it goes up about 8F - normal fine grind raises temperature about 6F. I grind at room temp which here in FL is 78-79 and my highest flour temps have been 86-89F.
I am very fit so generally I have not minded the extra workout of hand cranking, but I will say I never double the recipe just because I am baking anyway. I am going to get a stone electric mill so that I have an easier option ( it is cheaper than the motor attachment for the GM) when I am not in the mood or want to make an extra loaf.
The GM still looks and works like it is brand new. It sits on the counter permanently - it is really too heavy to be bringing it in and out (I think 46lbs). I go through 150-200lbs of berries a yr - any more and my arm would fall off.
I just thought I would add this since there is not a lot out there about the GM 116. BTW I am very happy I got the larger one - I am done grinding 50% faster.
I had been contemplating the purchase of a Grain Maker, but didn't because of the price. Then the panic buying started and an unctioning told me to buy one ASAP.
Glad I listened to that voice! When I ordered, production was running four weeks and so I probably have one more week before Ethan sends me the happy news my mill is on its way.
While waiting, I've been researching the virtue of home-milled flour and am now wondering why I waited so long. Plus with all of the expert advice I've received here on TFL, I'm going through the happy dilemma of deciding what to bake first!
I chose NOT to buy the motor drive, not only for cost but also because I've ignoring my upper-body and arm exercise. At least that's my excuse. :-)
I am also a firm devotee of Self-Suffiviency, and the acquisition of my 99 represents likely my final purchase before I take possession of my rural property and move up there to begin "living the dream." In time, I wouldn't be surprised if I added a motorized 116, but first their Flaking Mill.
So the adventure begins! Based on the comments I've read here, I won't regret buying my GM#99 from Bitterroot.
Facebook Salzburger
Does anyone use these Granite stone mills? Are they available in the USA with US power requirements?
They look attractive compared to KoMo and Bock mills and appear to be in the $600 range for one with the 90mm granite stones. This puts it in the range of the mid-range KoMo and GrainMaker mills. I'm curious about them compared to the GrainMaker mainly thinking both have an advantage over synthetic stones or, at least some nostalgia for yesteryear.
The Salzburger flaker also looks competitive with the KoMo unit.
I'll let you know in a few weeks when mine arrives. I decided I wanted to get an electric option and I thought the salzburger was the nicest. I really like the idea of granite stones. I'll be honest - I am not that sure there is actually anything to worry about with the synthetic stones - the bits of stone or aluminum - but just the suspicion was enough to steer me elsewhere. I have definitely enjoyed the GM and I have never felt it was not up to the task. Sometimes I am not up for all the grinding though- it takes time, it is quite noisy, and if you want really fine flour in one pass it is going to be a good workout.
I ordered my salzburger through the austrian website (www.natural-grainmills.com) - it takes credit cards - the exchange rate is currently very favorable -just make sure you have a credit card that does not charge exchange fees and whatnot. Shipping was 105 euro bc of the pandemic - it apparently was a 1/3 of that before the pandemic. It will come set for US power.
I decided to get the MT12 which is pricy but very nice. I do think the Mockmill Pro 200 is quite similar and probably just as good without granite, but I will post back when it arrives. I ordered it May 2 - it shipped May 8 and departed internationally May 12. I am hoping it will appear this week.
I got an email response from Salzburger. Christine replied that shipping out of Austria sometimes is only available via Airmail while a few days later may be available via regular mail at a significantly reduced rate. Also, they do not have any USA based distributors and only ship direct to the USA right now.
Any updates? Thanks!
I finally got it! It was stuck in customs in Chicago for 2.5 weeks. I have ground about 3 lbs so far. It is great - much finer than I usually do with the GM. It is very fast too - they say 200gr/min but I think it is at least 300gr/min. The listed speed is probably maximum fineness.
Only issue so far is temperature - it does heat up the flour. So with the GM I would use room temp (78F) wheat berries and the highest temps I ever got were about 90F. It just gets too hard to turn the thing fast if you set it to very fine. With a motor or the bike attachment I bet that might change, but by hand I do not heat up flour with my GM.
The salzberger mill took room temp berries to 126F on normal grinding. That was not ideal. I just tried berries in the freezer for 15 min before grinding -that kept the temp to 115F. So I am probably going to freeze the berries for an hour or so to keep the temps under 110F.
The speed of grinding is much faster than hand grinding. Honestly I was shocked how fast it is. The granite stones seem to be absolutely perfectly parallel. Even on very fine, there is no grinding sound heard before berries are added (like I have seen in videos with the mockmill/Komo).
I'll update when I have done more with it
So I have done about another 5-10lbs. It is great. So fast and effortless and much finer that I could do with the GM. I still love the GM for a more rustic flour and bread. Temperature has not been a problem with the berries frozen for an hour before. Max temp was about 105 after doing almost a kilo at once on very fine. For my usual 500gr grinding session, max temps have been 95-96F. Keep in mind I am in FL and the room I grind in is usually 84F by the instant read Thermapen I use for these measurements.
Sounds like that mill is a great option for people like myself and is working out really well for you.
Hi DansBread
I was wondering how it is with you Salzburger mill? I've read the post and it is very interesting. I'm also interested in either the Grainmaker, the Diamant or the Salzburger.
The temperatures you mention, and then also storing them first in the freezer looks quit some work, so therefor I wanted to inform how it is with your Salzburger.
Are you still using the grainmaker? I live in Europe, so for me the diamant is more easy for ordering ( transport cost is lower), but I have to say the grainmaker has it all. Clamp, stainless steel, lifetime warenty, goodlooking,....
Best regards
I still use the Grainmaker but not that much. My grainmaker has ground probably over a 1000lbs of grain since I bought it in 2012. It still looks and functions like brand-new. It is hard work though. I am very fit, work out everyday and still do not enjoy hand grinding.
Since I bought the Salzburger grinder, that is the go to option. I do keep a bag of grain in the freezer so I am ready to go whenever I want. I live in FL so room temp is quite warm - usually 78-80F. If the grain has been in the freezer, then there is no problem at all. I love how easy it is to adjust the fineness of the grind. It can easy do "00" flour. You would probably need shoulder surgery if you try that on the Grainmaker.
I would recommend you get what you really want and don't worry too much about the cost. The reason is these machines will last your entire lifetime (assuming you are not running a commercial establishment).
It cost a small fortune to ship the Salzburger unit to FL in the middle of the pandemic. It was worth it and I would do it again.
Hey DansBread
Ok, thanks a lot!
Maybe some small addition questions about the salzburger. Things I've read here and there. I'm living in a apartment, so the noise is very important. Is it tolerable during milling? And perhaps most important what is louder, the salzburger or the manual style (such as the grainmaker).
I've also read that the motor could smell a bit during milling. Do you notice this with yours?
Thanks a lot for the response.
Greets
MathRye
Powered grinders will all make a good deal of noise, generally because of the speed of their motors. Stones and burrs, whether in a coffee grinder or grain mill shouldn't be a big source of noise because the burrs and stones shouldn't be contacting each other. With a coffee grinder, the beans and grinds hitting the wall of the grinder make some noise so, as long as it is sturdy or insulated, you won't get much noise from that.
I haven't used the hand mills in this in this discussion but, the manual ones I have used were relatively quiet because the RPM (speed of the "motor") was not that high like it is with an electric motor (very high RPM with a smaller motor that is reduced through gearing to provide more torque to power the stones or burrs). HIgh-speed motors are simply louder than slower-speed ones.
In terms of "smell", electric motors under a lot of strain will produce ozone which is what I assume is being referenced. If the smell is related to oils or plastics, that is a different issue and would concern me around food products. If it is from the grain in the mill, that would suggest the flour would be no good.
Any grinding is going to be noisy. The grainmaker can be quiet but you have to go real slow. I typically grind about 600gram at a time. On the grainmaker that will take me just under 4min and it is pretty loud. My kids get pissed and turn the TV real loud. The Salzburger is much faster - probably just over 2min. It is pretty damn loud as well - I would guess 80-90dB. The motor is whisper quiet - it is the grinding that makes the noise. I really feel they are pretty similar unless I go real slow. I prefer to get it over with quickly.
There is no smell from the motor ever. Any time there has been a smell is was because the grain got too hot. This has never happened with freezing the grain first.
You may have heard the expression "keep your nose to the grind stone" - well it is true
Well keeping your nose to the stone indeed is true. For years I'am using a flake-hand mill. Specially for rye, and the flakes smell delecious due to the very little warming effect. And I love the excercis. It is a eschenfelder grain flaker. But after 5 years of use, the steel rolls seems to be worn out. See pictures. I think this is caused by some little pebbles that are unavoidable in the grain. Is that something also can occur with the grainmaker?
What would be best ( against pebbles). The grainmaker burrs ( hardend steel) or the diamont ( cast steel).
*Diamant
The grainmaker has held up well. Good clean grain is important. I have been lucky - I have found very few pebbles over the years - maybe just 1 or 2. I buy all my grain from Honeyville which has been exceptional. I know they are only in the States. I got some grain from a health food store once. I had to turn it into bird seed because it was so contaminated
To answer your question, I think the hardened steel will hold up better but I am sure they both have a finite amount of abuse they can take.
Always enjoy reading about other folks and their mills. I know we all enjoy the ones we have decided to buy.
I love my model 99 GrainMaker with it’s electric motor, and can quickly put the hand crank on it if I ever need to. I am not sure what the burrs are made from but they are listed as True 5” Grinding Burrs individually machined from hardened alloy steel. They look and feel like surgical grade stainless steel to me and I cannot scratch, mark or injure them. They are very nice and do a great job, plus the awesome lifetime warranty that they really do honor.
snielsen - I love my GM too. 7 1/2 yrs after purchase and it still grinds like brand new. I was thinking about getting the motor for it ($900), but decided for almost the same cost I could try a stone mill as well. A second mill might come in handy. This is my hobby - sometimes the decisions don't make perfect sense. ;)
Awesome! I also have a second mill, but have not used it in 15 years. Still, it’s there if I want to use it. I really like the GM though, and have never regretted buying any of it. There are only three of us at home, and I don’t really eat any bread, but I like making it for my wife and son. Enjoy you mills.
I was close to purchasing a GM as a backup and for controlled RPM.
I ended up rounding out my Salzburger collection with their smaller hand mill. I have not noticed any issues with milling on my electric mill, it does get up to 120F though. The raw food limit is a bit under that which is my threshold for tolerance, not necessarily enzyme reaction or baking quality. Their MT18 is at 850RPM, whereas the MT12 I have is at 1,250RPM. I really wanted the slow rate but I had no need for the extra power and hopper size in general. I sometimes feel like I should've saved up a bit more but I have no regrets still.
My hand mill will be here soon, so if I'm ever feeling for whatever reason like cold-milling, I have the option. Now I've got their mill, a hand mill and a flaker for my morning oats. Their flaker does oily seeds as well. Lots of wood involved here which I like, I have felt very healthy the past few months, I am getting the authentic Austrian bread experience, lol.
I really don't think you can go wrong at the end of the day with a GM, a Diamant, a Country Living. Grain mills have been created for a long time, they're not really in the business of innovation, and if it's made well out of steel or wood, it's probably good to go.
I have "hand milled" my coffee for the past two years, for both coffee and espresso, using two nice German hand grinders. I have yet to tire of it. I rely on my Vitamix for something like nut butters...
I'd be willing to bet you'll tire of hand milling pounds of grains before the mills tire of you.