Community Bake - Pizza
We're going to sneak in a special Community Bake (CB). Every body likes a da pizza! The promised Swiss Farmhouse Bread will be featured towards the end of July. But for now, “When the moon hits you eye like a big pizza pie, that’s Amore..."
In researching all things pizza, it is obvious that great pizza is a extremely subjective thing to each individual. Everyone has their own opinion. With that in mind we are going to throw this CB wide open. Use whichever formula and process that you like. For those that want to try a tested formula, see The RoadSide Pie King's go-to dough. It is posted in both Instant Dry Yeast and Sourdough versions. The spreadsheet is set to a Total Dough Weight (TDW) of 350 grams, which should be suitable for a 12" pie. If anyone is interested in a larger size dough, I can post a link to my spreadsheet. The TDW can be changed to any weight you desire. Let me know if you are interested. The spreadsheet was built in Excel.
Instruction for the YEASTED version - - - NOTE - - - If using the sourdough version you may have to adjust the amount of levain. At 7.5% PreFerment Flour (PFF) 24- 48 hr. retard should work. For longer retardation, it might be best to reduce the PFF to 5 or even less. A little goes a long way.
(1) In your mixer bowl(or by hand) dissolve the Starter or yeast in all of the Final Dough Water except the HOLD OUT Water. (2) Mix in the flours until well hydrated (3) Allow to fermentolyse for 1hr (4) Mix in the remaining HOLD OUT Water, salt, sugar, and malt (if using), mix until well-incorporated. (5) Slowly drizzle in the oil until well combined. (6) Beat or knead by hand until dough is moderately developed. The dough will be sticky and elastic. If kneading by hand, use slightly wet hands and avoid adding more flour. (7) Oil your hands and a suitable container. (8) Shape into a tight ball (9) Cold ferment in the refrigerator for 24hr-48hrs. (10) Remove to warm up to room temp 1hr or so before use, or you can ferment at room temp. for 6hrs. 1(11 Stretch the balls into your desired size skins (see video below), top and bake at 500F-550F (as high as your oven will go) Until the crust is browned and the cheese has melted. Spin the pie at least once to avoid burning due to oven hot spots. I have included a link to a skin stretching tutorial. Watch this video, more than a few times then go through the motions in your head. If you can see it in your mind's eye, you too can be a home oven pizzaiolo!
I plan to add videos and other resources here as they become available. Check back often
- How to top a pizza
- How to stretch a pizza dough
- How to open a dough ball NOTE - I haven't tried this one, but it does look interesting and easy. For any dough ball it is important to rest the cold dough before stretching it out.
- How to properly hydrate a dough that uses oil
- How to grate soft cheese
By-the-way - a great pizza forum for researching all things pizza is www.pizzamaking.com . The pizza bakers on that site have been extremely patient and helpful towards me. I ask a lot of questions :-D
Let's have a blast and have a great time learning...
Danny
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LATEST UPDATE - - -
June 26 @ 7:30AM - Today’s pie used the Pie King’s sourdough formula. It retarded for 4 1/2 days. This dough used 3 grams of chocolate malt (for identification purposes only) to distinguish between PK’s yeasted version and the SD version. Both were mixed at the same time. Read below for lesson’s learned.
The SD dough ball actually rose more than the yeasted version.
My first pie using the Pizza-Porta. The unit is well built and fits like a glove. I decided the throw a couple of hand fulls of apple pellets in for good measure. Will need more testing to evaluate.
Now that’s a thin crust...
See below for Lessons Learned
Spread out pepperoni on a doubled paper towel and place on a plate. Microwave at 80% power for 60 seconds. Remove and blot with additional paper towel. This technique is well worth the extra effort.
Notice how dry (oil free) the pie looks. It required no blotting at all. Never again raw pepperonis!
2. Season before baking
Season pizza before cooking. The flavor seems better. I used Truffle Salt and also powdered Ranch Dressing. Patsy can’t handle any pepper, but it would also be good.
3. Sour Cream is the pièce de ré·sis·tance
I discovered that a small amount of sour cream added to the top of a hot fully cooked pizza is the finishing touch to your masterpiece.
4. If you cook your pie on an outside oven, pit, etc., consider using your favorite wood for a distinct smoky flavor. IMO, it gives the pie a very special and noticeable touch.
CONCLUSIONS - This pie was topped with sliced Provolone and Colby Jack cheese, feta cheese and pepperoni only. No tomato sauce at all. The sourdough was nice and I’d call this pie the best tasting so far. It was not too greasy, was crisp, light, and had a moderate chew. The smoky notes (provided by apple wood) sets this pie apart from all others. I am beginning to wonder if the 3 grams of chocolate malt (included to color the dough for identification) didn’t have something to do with the exceptional flavor. If I can duplicate the taste of this pie I will be a happy guy.
June 24 @ 9:11PM - I thought it good to post the images of a dough ball just entering retardation and then the same dough ball after 48hr of retardation. After 48hr the dough ball was removed from the frig to warm up and be drawn out to form the pie. The point is, the dough balls grow very little from the original stage.
The images are blurred because the bags were sprayed with oil to prevent sticking. The dough ball pictured on the right is the same dough ball on the left side of the left image. The growth was minimal.
June 24 @ 4:20PM - Today’s pie dough (pictured above on the left) was made using the Pie King’s yeasted version that is listed above. This dough retarded for 2 days. Tomorrow the SD version will be baked off after a 3 day retard.
The dough ball was initially shaped to form the cornicione. At this point it is about 7” wide.
The image above shows the fully opened dough ball sitting on top of a 14” pizza screen.
I learned a few tips while finishing this one off. The pepperonis release a lot of oil. I used a paper towel to absorb most of the excess oil (missed 1 pepperoni). Then I noticed the crust had absorbed a little oil on the cornicione. The coloration was uneven, so I used a tiny bite of pepperoni oil and brush a thin coat on crust. Will’s use of the small amount of whole grain was a nice touch.
I like thin crust pizza. Less dough - less carbs...
June 23 @ 6:00PM - Today’s Cracker Crust pie started out 4 days ago. The formula and method came from Nick57 at PizzaMaking.com. All other previous attempts at Cracker Crust failed miserably until I stumbled upon Nick’s post. It was success at first try! I tried a technique on this one that I had read about called lamination. Basically you divide the dough ball in 2 equal pieces, then roll each out into a circle. Lightly flour the top of 1 dough and place the other one over it. The layered dough is rolled out a little larger than the cutter pan. Then placed into the pan, similar to a typical pie crust and then the excess is trimmed off.
This time the veggies were pre-cooked.
I am stuck on OLD BAY Seasoning. We have used it for seafood for years, but it is great on most things. Out of sight for pizza.
June 22 @ 1:30PM - After seeing the RoadSide PieKing's (aka Will) pies I got jazzed up for pizza. The obsession started about 2 weeks ago. The first pies were terrible, almost not eatable. But, since picking Will's brain and spending hours on the PizzaMaking.com website, my pizzas are looking very respectable. It is the goal of this CB that everyone joining in will be able to say the same.
Here are a few of the "good" bakes.
Cracker Crust
Cracker Crust docked in a cutter pan ready to par-bake
NY Thin Crust
Danny
Your getting extremely adept at stretching N.Y. style. All your community bake pie look great! I think I am not following your posting guide lines to keep the thread compact. I have been replying to my own posts. It seems you in contrast are editing your one original post.
No problem, Will. I choose to post all bakes on a single post, because it seems to be more efficient on topics that have a way of becoming huge. By-the-way- notice how the most recent post are placed at the top. Whenever I update the post it goes to the top of the “Recent Comments” on the home page. When the user clicks the post the first thing they’ll see is my most recent update because it is on the very top.
The important thing is to participate. There are no requirements, except to have a blast and learn while doing it. The CB is like the Out Back Steak House - “No rules Mate, just right” ;-)
I appreciate your compliments, but let it be known that you and your pies were the inspiration for this CB! You are the TFL Pie King...
Danny
Here are some images of the Fourth of July Pizza Party. Baking 8 pies can be very stressful...
The pie above was the definitive favorite. It was a 16” Cracker Crust. All pizza had a layer of sliced provolone put down directly on the crust. This prevented any moisture from softening the bottom of the skin.
Will, I had a hard time stretching out your yeasted dough formula. Do you think the addition of whole wheat made the dough less extensible? BTW - these balls retarded 72 hours.
Your pies look great, Danny! I could only get a couple of pics of my 6 pies, so nice work getting all of yours photographed! I don't have any input for you on the difficulty stretching your skins. My usual 50/50 Caputo/AP stretches so easily (and is very soft/silky, too), so haven't encountered this issue.
Did you use the Porta Pizza for these? Do you think it's a good addition to your BGE?
R
Rich, I am starting to suspect that the dough balls were hard to stretch out because of the whole grains. Only 10%, though. The balls were very elastic and I had to work to get them opened. Left them on the counter for at least 3 hours.
On second thought. I did something different this time. I bulk retarded the dough for 2 days, then balled the last 24 hours. This may have been the culprit.
I used the Pizza-Porta for 2 of the 8 pies. The pit got way to hot and believe it or not I forgot to close the bottom vent when trying to bring the temp down. Only used the P-P side vents. Anxiety affects the minds :-D
I am confident the P-P will work well once I get used to it. The downside is, it uses a lot of lump coal...
Danny
Oh! If you haven’t tried sour cream on a pizza, give it a try. It really ramps things up. Apply after the pie is cooked and still warm.
i clicked the link above then had to scroll to the bottom of your post and touch reply then scroll down again to get to the blank reply area. Will see if I get this entry in my personal email as well
Hi Trailrunner. You asked me in a message what my process and recipe was, this was my reply.
I used PieKing’s recipe for sourdough pizza in the Community Bake thread. I think the only changes I made to his recipe is that I like to do the cold bulk fermentation for 48-72 hours. I didn’t find that the dough lost any significant amount of elasticity from the longer ferment.
I max out my oven with the skillet in it at 550ºF for 1 hour that way it is piping hot when the dough goes in and gets nice and crispy on the bottom.
To get the dough into the skillet I carefully place it in at the end of stretching. I take the skillet out of the oven and then lift the dough getting my hand underneath just as I would when stretching it in the air. Then carefully drop the bottom end hanging down into the skillet and then plop the rest of it in without touching the sides. It never goes in perfectly but you can carefully adjust it in the skillet because it is so hot I haven’t found that it sticks at all. I guess my skillet is also pretty well seasoned, but you can easily but carefully move the dough around to get a nice round.
For my 9 inch pizzas they have all taken 8 mins at 550ºF to finish with a nice crispy bottom crust.
Hey thank you ! I have all sizes of iron skillets and they are all 50-100 yrs old and are very well seasoned. I have always just oiled the cold skillet with extra EVOO ( it kind of fries the bottom as it bakes like a Detroit pizza) and dropped in the stretched dough and let it rise for a bit in the cold skillet. I then top it with cheese first and then toppings and more cheese and last just drips of sauce. I bake it at 500 for about 15-20 min. Depends. It rises great and saves dealing with the hot skillet. The crust gets amazing rise and the bottom gets wonderfully crisp as well. You might give it a try as then you don't have to waste all that energy preheating one 9" skillet .Just a thought. Thank you for sharing your process. Next time I am going to do a pizza I think as I am preheating the steel for an hour I will stick one of my skillets on top and do a pizza each way !! That way we can have both with 1/2 the effort. Thank you Benny
1. In your mixer bowl(or by hand) dissolve the Starter/yeast in all but 25G of the water 2. Mix in the flours until well hydrated 3. Allow to fermentolyse for 1hr 4. Mix in the remaining 25G of water, salt, sugar, and malt (if using), mix until well-incorporated. 5. slowly drizzle in the oil until well combined. 6. Beat or knead by hand for 6-10 minutes. The dough will be sticky and elastic. If kneading by hand, use slightly wet hands and avoid adding more flour. 7. Oil your hands and a suitable container. 8. Shape into a tight ball 9. Cold ferment in the refrigerator for 24hr-48hrs. Remove to warm up to room temp 1hr before use, or you can ferment at room temp. for 6hrs. 10. Stretch the balls into your desired size skins, top and bake at 500F-550F (as high as your oven will go). for about 10min. Spin the pie at least once to avoid burning due to oven hot spots. I have included a link to a skin stretching tutorial. Watch this video, more than a few times then go through the motions in your head. If you can see it in your mind's eye, you too can be a home oven pizzaiolo! Lastly, as you all know Danny, works tirelessly to make this a fun interactive group. I have seen first hand, how hard he works. He will not just post up a formula, Willy-nilly. He works very hard to make sure we all have a good experience. Kudos to you, my friend. Thanks for all you do!
New York style skin stretching
I deleted my post and placed it within the Community Bake topic so your comments are lost :). If you want to post again on my post that way it will be there for historical data LOL! Detroit Pizza always has the sauce on the top after it bakes. You add it and then put it back in the oven for a few minutes. I love Detroit pizza so may use the crust for that on Wed. Stay tuned. Thank you ! c
I always put a cheese layer down to prevent the dreaded soggy crust. I'm not sure what the toppings will be on Wed. I like it pretty simple. It's awesome that you are from Malta! My daughter went there a few years ago and loved it . c
First I though I was going nuts. Then i decided I must have screwed up some how! I reposed.
Under construction.
Please bare with us, while we wait for our sourdough to ferment.
While we are waiting, please enjoy this short video. One of my very first pizza pies. My methods have changed but the basics stayed the same. I no longer use fresh tomatoes for my pizza sauce. This simple L.I. Grandma pizza pie is a great jumping off point to get your feet wet in home oven pizza making. No special equipment required,simple readily available ingredients yields outstanding results!
(fresh tomato no cook pizza sauce)
Fresco, senza cuoco, salsa per pizza
People keep asking me, how do you get your pizza pies so perfectly round? I will now share my secret. My skills have improved so much since I made these videos, I really need to make a new one. Ah but I digress, where were we? This is one piece of inexpensive specialized equipment that I wholeheartedly recommend for shaping round N.Y. style pies. The pizza screen. These can be had for well under $10.00 depending on the diameter. As you can plainly see, even a clumsy inexperienced dolt like me can easily line up a properly fermented skin to the circumference of the screen
Edge streching a N.Y. style pie
Perfectly round pizza pie
^^Please click on the links above ^^.
Ordered a 10" screen! (how much dough would you recommend for 10''?) Thanks for sharing, Will!
Yippee
***Elevator music playing***
A good starting point is 227 grams. That is allowing 2 Gram bowl residue compensation. Make one pie then you can judge how you like the thickness and go up or down.
Very important The screen should be seasoned before you use it. The ones in the video were not and every now and again a pie stuck to it. Live and learn. Now that my screens are seasoned I don't have that problem.
Here is the simple procedure, from the Dough Doctor himself, Tom Lehmann:
Once seasoned, the screens should not be washed, otherwise the the seasoning will peal off like a bad sunburn! All you need to do is brush them off. Should apiece of crust get stuck just pop it out with the tine of a fork. Every time you use it it will get darker and darker. (This is a good thing) Enjoy!
Will F.
Q: Can you please explain to me how to correctly season my new pizza screens?
A: Pizza screens and many pizza pans should be seasoned before they can be used. Failure to do so will result in the pizza (crust) and the pan or screen becoming as one — not to mention a poor bake quality
To season new pans or screens, first wash them to remove any protective oil or residue from the manufacturing process. Then thoroughly dry with a clean towel and pass them through the oven for a couple minutes to evaporate any remaining water. Next, wipe the pan/screen with any type of salad oil. Be sure to wipe both the top and bottom surfaces. Then, brush on the oil. A thin coating will do. Place the oiled pans/screens in an oven set at not more than 425 F. This is important to remember, because the fl ash point (temperature at which the oil ignites) of most oils is at around 440 F. If you season pans at this temperature, or higher, there is a possibility that the oil could ignite, resulting in a bit more excitement than you might have bargained for. Allow the pans to bake in the oven for 15 to 20 minutes.
This is what can happen with unseasoned screens:
Good stuff???
227g at what hydration? Thx again.
Yippee
Danny, has the formula for both IDY and sourdough pizza above in his spread sheet, Both formulas are at 63% hydration.
I plugged it into the pizza spread sheet for you. This is the formula for two dough balls @10"
???
Yippee
now I need to make the dough.
How do you make your sauce, Will? If it's simple and delicious, please share your recipe. Thx.
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to find all my C.B.pizza posts and give your honest opinion! He He.
Yippee! Your almost ready! OMG it is so easy and Delicious! I use this recipe for all my pizzas. In fact I have ten, 8oz packages in the freezer right now! Enjoy!
Could you make the font/image a bit larger? Thx.
Yippee
I was just looking at your blog, I am honored that such an accomplished chef would ask me for advice! That is a photo file if you right click on it, you will have an option to view the photo.
Better yet.
IngredientsOne 28-oz. can whole peeled tomatoes
one fresh slicing tomato
2 anchovies
2 garlic cloves
1/8 cup olive oil
1/4 cup basil leaves
Salt
Pepper
Drain one 28-oz. can whole peeled tomatoes and pulse tomatoes with 2 anchovies, 2 garlic cloves, 1/8th cup olive oil, and 1/4 cup
basil leaves in a food processor or blender until mostly smooth (some texture is okay); season with salt and pepper.
Note: I use less olive oil. I guess the slicing tomato is a topping, omit that. Puse the rest in a food processor. Yumo!to have created extra work for you, Will. Thank you so much for your recipe and kind words!
Yippee
Back when I first started out making pizza/pizza sauce I would use fresh plum tomatoes. Now days I like how the canned ones work better. In fact this last big freezer batch I use a very thick ground tomato instead of whole canned.
just blend everything to form the sauce, am I correct? I usually don't want to make a sauce that requires cooking, too much work. Thx again for sharing your recipe.
Yippee
The sauce cooks in the oven on the pizza.
My plan was to do a 48-hour cold ferment from frozen of the sourdough ball I have in the freezer. For a Wednesday bake. However, with all the excitement swirling around T.F.L., I was sucked into the fray. After careful consideration, I decided that making one of my standard 18-inch pies was just not going to cut it. This morning I whipped up a batch of my IDY pizza dough by hand, scaled for two 12- inch pies (324 Grams Ea.) The plan is for a seven-hour room temperature ferment. For these special Community bake pies, I am going way off the reservation in regards to toppings. My wife requested chicken as her topping, her pie will be chicken cordon blue pizza. My pie is going to be Italian eggplant Parmigiano pizza. Smile... This is exciting!
All the ingredients for both the chicken and eggplant pies ready and waiting. We are on schedule for a 4:30 PM bake. T minus 80 Minutes. Smile...
Today, we have a rustic flat bread pizza, from the island of Gozo. I submit for your approval:
Maltese/Gozitan Ftira The toppings:
Olive oil, vine ripened tomato, anchovies, raw shallot rings, capers, sauteed shallots with shiitake mushrooms, garlic. and topped off with thinly sliced red potatoes. This my friends is indeed a culinary treat! The recipe is in the photos. I converted the crust (base) from a commercial yeast formula to sourdough. As you can see this formula called for a very low hydration dough, which worked very well for this application.
Thanks for the chance to free my mind and concentrate my mind on baking a better pizza!
First Up, chicken cordon bleu.
Next up on the menu, Eggplant parmigiano pizza pie.
You have baked the pie of my dreams! I asked Patsy the other day, “what do you think about an eggplant parmigiana pizza pie? Eggplant parm is my absolute favorite dish of all times, with cajun cooking a close second.
Will, did you fry or bake the breaded eggplant? I had planned to bread the eggplant (sliced, salted - then cleaned off and dried), next coat lightly with misted EVOO. Baked off until nice a browned, then used to top a da pizza pie...
I don't bread the eggplant. I salt/sweat, then wipe off. After that I dredge the slices in seasoned flour and fry it hot olive oil.
Lately hubby and I have been putting thin tomato slices on top of the pizza, specifically to protect toppings like shrimp, crab, and tuna. Keeps them moist. And the caramellized tomato is super!
Mom would make me sunnyside up eggs on a bed of caramelized tomatoes. Can't wait to see one of your sea food pies Mini!
Today's ftira toppings:
Ricotta, egg, mozzarella and parmigiano. Caramelized onion and mushrooms, black olives, roasted red peppers and pepperoni topped off with sliced potatoes.
Good morning, friends.
I have already established that my "Slow-Mo" culture dough will work just fine for a pizza skin inside and up to 7 days frozen. Today's dough ball was frozen at 5:00 PM on the 19th of June, nine days ago. The dough ball is slowly defrosting in the refrigerator and will have a 2 hour bench rest prior to a 5 PM shaping and bake. I took some time before work and did the prep work. I don't really mind the maggots in the fried sweet sausage, they add texture! Ha, just kidding, it fennel seed. I thought of adding them after the sausage was fried up. Next time I will cook the meat with them in the pan. I took out the wrong package of sausage last night usually I use hot sausage on my pizzas.
5:45 PM. The pie turned out very nice. I would have liked some more oven spring. However, still a very viable dough. I am wondering how to get a little more pop from the last frozen dough ball on Sunday, at 11 days frozen.
I wonder if the yeasted version would handle freezing better.
If you are fermenting the SD balls for a long time before freezing, maybe shortening the fermentation might help.
Last thought. What if you didn’t ferment the balls very much at all, then froze. After defrosting balls could be fermented more before stretching out.
...just thinking out loud.
Yes I believe commercial yeast would fair better. These went directly from the mixer to balling and into the freezer. I am going to take the last ball out of the freezer for a 48 hr. cold ferment in the refrigerator. then maybe a three hour bench rest before shape/bake. I will take the dough out tonight for a Monday night bake. The dough would have been frozen for 12 days by then, We shall see. Still a nice result the rim was chewy yet tender.
This was my effort, not a regular shape unlike those of so many other posters! It was intended to be square but I have not mastered the knack of loading the dough onto the baking stone and part of the dough got stuck!
I used the Overnight Straight Pizza Dough recipe from Forkish FWSY. Despite the British Summer and higher overnight temps than Forkish suggests all went well timing wise and I divided the dough with one half to the fridge and the other to the freezer for next time. I scaled the recipe to a 2 pizza quantity using 400g 00 flour ((Mulino Marino) plus 4g diastatic malt flour, 280g water, 8g salt and .32g instant yeast (SAF - Pizza). I did vary the baking instructions, partly because I have not been very successful in sliding the dough onto the stone and I have found that the cheese can go brown if baked for too long. So I spread my pesto sauce onto the dough and baked that for 4 mins at GM9 (in a domestic gas fan oven), removed the part baked pizza and topped with mozzarella, pepperoni, halved tomatoes and topped with some grated parmesan. I baked the pizza for a further 7 mins also at GM9 (240°C).To serve I used some fresh basil leaves and a salad.
So I have a problem with sliding the pizza onto the stone despite copious amounts of brown rice flour, perhaps I did not use enough flour when shaping the pizza. Any advice on how I can perfect that stage of the process would be gratefully received.
The taste was excellent, light and full of flavour. I will try his SD recipe soon.
Hello, Seven.
I do not like using flour/cornstarch on my peal. First of all it does not always work, secondly it makes a huge mess on the kitchen floor! I recommend you line your peal with a sheet of parchment paper. It works perfectly every time with no mess or fuss. Once the pie sets a bit you can slide the parchment paper out from under the pie. The pie itself looks fantastic! Many people like the free form pies, go with that "This is my free form pizza pie!" Enjoy. I can't wait to see your sourdough pie!
Kind regards,
Will F.
Yes I spent some time sweeping up the kitchen floor and cleaning the oven (but because I part baked the pizza this time at least the oven was not covered in baked on topping!). Parchment or baking paper looks like a possible solution for me but I have been reading other posters using a screen perhaps I should consider getting one of those?
Yes free form or rustic I like! Thanks for your suggestion.
Alan
I mainly use the screen to be able to bake an 18" pie in my oven. It is also a good way to get a perfectly round pie. Your pie looked perfect to me even though we know it was a miss step. The down side of the screen is not having the pie directly on your stone. You could always slide it off the screen half way though the bake. Both solutions are far superior to cornmeal/four on the peal in a home kitchen.
Do you think that a silicone mat (which I have) would substitute for the parchment paper? The mats that I have are said to be able to withstand temperatures to 250°C. Perhaps even shape the dough on the mat and then the sauce and bake on the stone for 4 mins until the dough is part cooked, remove pizza on the mat from the oven, add toppings and return the pizza (without the mat) for the remaining bake time.
Thanks again for your help.
Alan
I never use them for pizza but have used them for breads many time. No worries about withstanding oven temps. The downside like with the screen is the insulating factor.
I think that my next attempt will involve the use of the mat for that initial bake, as the dough starts to set. Hopefully the entire base will become crisp enough when topped and returned to the oven without the mat.
Thank you so much for helping me to come up with a possible solution (and save me time cleaning up afterwards!).
Alan
I am going to do the parchment paper directly on the pizza steel later today! I just finished prepping all the toppings! I will be looking for your next pie.
Best,
Will F.
You could preheat a baking stone. Fit the dough to the pizza screen so that it would be perfectly round. There are 2 options. Either (1) par bake the naked dough on the screen until it was set enough to handle (2-3 min) then remove and top or (2) you could top the uncooked dough on the screen and put that onto the preheated stone. Once the pie was rigid enough to move off the screen, slide it onto the hot stone. I like to finish the bake with the pie straight on the stone. The darkened bottom is a nice touch, IMO.
Parchment paper sounds like a great idea, but there is generally a temperature limit. Good News! I just read an article by Cooks Illustrated and they maintain that parchment is fine for pizza.
For those that don’t have a pizza screen, a round pizza serving tray (pan) works for me. The stretched dough is placed perfectly round on the aluminum or stainless plate. The dough is then par-baked. Once the dough sets up it is removed, allowed to cool a bite, then topped and placed straight (without the plate) onto the stone to bake. I now have screens, but prior to that a plate was used with great results.
THOUGHT - for those that may not have something round to cook on, you could use an inverted square or rectangular baking pan and make the pie perfectly fit the pan.
Thanks Will, for posting such great info. I am sure we are going to see many postings of gorgeous pizzas soon!
Danny
Whatever work best for each individual is just fine. Thanks for getting this CB started and sizzling hot!
What works for me is to give the peel a couple of short sharp jerks just before sliding the pizza on to the stone. If that does not free it up, lift the pizza up gently at one edge, put some flour or cornmeal underneath and try again. Once the pizza moves freely when you jiggle the peel, it should slide easily on to the stone.
Thanks very much for the advice. I will try again, and if at first I do not succeed...
I have done SD pizza only two or three times. My recipe is adapted from Renato Bosco and is a slight nod to the Neapolitan pizza.
This makes 4x 250g panetti for four 10-12 inch pizzas.
I have done a few test runs with variations.
Dough is scaled at 180-250g per Neapolitan rules.
I have a couple of options available in how I can cook the pizza but what gives the best results for me is to pre-heat my cast-iron stone which is rectangular by the way and then use my grill to apply some top heat.
Recipe:
Biga:
10g lievito madre maturo (refreshed twice) (50% hydration)
44g very cold water water
1g salt
100g white bread flour
Dissolve salt thoroughly in 25g of water before a adding the lievito. Let hydrate for few minutes and then mix well so that the lievito is broken up. Add flour and mix to form crumbs. Lastly add the remaining water. Do not form a dough as such but pieces that contain no dry flour. Push together under hand and place in a heavy bowl. Cover with cling film and then pierce it may times with a cocktail stick. Then cover the whole bowl with a fine woven cloth and let rest at 16-18C for 16-18 hours.
NB. The dough is covered this way to allow a continuous exchange with the air. It important that the dough is not hermetically enclosed.
Main dough:
All of the biga (~150g)
150g Khorasan flour
350g white bread flour
330g water
15g salt
Mix as desired to medium gluten development. Allow to rest covered for 90-120 minutes. Divide into four panetti per la pizza. Leave to rest until slightly risen and then refrigerate until needed.
To be updated...
28th June Update.
Todays lunch with a spelt version. Toppings include red spring onion, nocellara olives and Milano salami.
Biga:
I will provide a full update soon Danny.
I am so glad you joined in. The cornicione if gorgeous! To me, you are the king of fermentation.
You are also, like they might say in Italian, “a biga man”. And I have no idea how large of a guy you are :-)
I look forward to your update(s).
Danny
I imagine you are busy, but I’m looking forward to reading your pizza update. I calculate a 62.5% hydration. Always interested to observe your methods...
To all bakers
I am trying something a little different for most pizza methods. Using 3% prefermented flour and plan a minimum of 12hr bulk @ 79F, then ball dough and refrigerate for convenience. I almost always read that after a short (if any) BF the dough is retarded for 24-72 hours then shaped and baked. I want to develop a lactic flavor profile. Also hoping to create a great tasting dough that can be ready in less than 24 hours.
Looking for thoughts and opinions...
Dan
Michael, the browning of the under skin is impressive. Since the dough balls are sitting on your stove top I assume you baked this in a home oven. What temperature and steel or stone?
Would you call this a Neapolitan style pie?
I noticed you used the trusty parchment paper.
Dan
I am fairly new here and haven't ventured into SD pizza yet, just starting on SD bread. I wasn't going to post but you have to start somewhere. It's not a fancy recipe but I've been working on my pizza for a few months getting the base, sauce and cheese mix just right and I am finally there .. for now!
My dough is: 190g water, 1 tsp sugar, 1.5 tsp active yeast, 250g 00 flour, 50g semolina flour, 1 tsp salt, 20 ml olive.
I mix and knead then put in the fridge in the morning to use at tea. I take it out an hour before and cook on full heat on a well heated travertine stone tile. 4 mins then turn for another 4 mins. Gives a crispy, sturdy base.
This was a 14in veggie pizza on a tomato base. Sorry it's simple but am still learning.
Actually when you think about it, pizza is a very simple food. Yours look inviting. I’m trying to figure out a particular topping on your pie. Is it quarter onions? What did you top it with?
The color of your crust and the browning of the cheese is beautiful!
Dan
Thank you :) The topping was peppers, onions, sweetcorn, mushrooms and pineapple.
Corn is a great idea! Never thought of that.
made it an Iowan pizza. One of my favourites with ham too. Pineapple is Hawaiian. So is this an "Hawaiian in Iowa?" The last spinach, 3 cheese, olive jumbo shrimp pizza with tomato wedges (hubby was going "way out" with the wet stuff) nearly drowned my mini oven! Made a puddle when opening the door! Made him clean it yesterday. Even though the pizza was really really good! Any ideas what to call a spinach shrimp pizza? (Draining the Red Sea?)
Pizza, especially thin crust cooked pan-less can be a very messy endeavor. In fact, early on I became frustrated with the mess and waste, I was about to give up. Then my wife reminded me, of some of the nice pies I had made, ones that did not cause an oven disaster. She further propped me up by telling me how much better my pies were, compared to the local offerings. (The local offerings around here are world class) To make a long story short, I tried again. The rest is "Pie King" history! Smile...
All of your hard work to perfect your pizza game has paid off! This pizza looks terrific! Kudos to you!
Pizza is one of my favorite foods and it was my first venture down the rabbit hole of bread making. I have tried many dough formulas and have settled on a hybrid of the Forkish FSWY overnight recipe mixed by hand to about a 70% hydration kneaded by the slap and fold method. It is retarded in bulk and then again after being divided. Maybe because the dough is wetter than most recipes it is better to work it straight from the fridge. It gives me a baguette like puffy crust rim that is as delicious as the pie. I dream of a wood fired oven someday but have been content with a home oven or in summertime on the gas grill with an Emille Henry Pizza stone. That ceramic stone somehow makes a crisp crust that I don't get otherwise. The slices are rigid no matter how thin the crust is so the toppings don't slide off when eaten.
My preferred tomato sauce is made from home grown tomatoes roasted to a char, that we freeze in small jars and are the perfect size for one pizza. Some of the favorites in our house are a pesto, grilled chicken, red onion, artichoke hearts, kalmata olive and pine nuts with a little crumbled feta cheese. Wolfgang's barbecued chicken pizza is also a staple.
I would like to share some different options for pizza. One is an Iowa gas station breakfast pizza that is pre-baked for 5 minutes with a layer of cheese then spread with runny scrambled eggs topped with bacon or breakfast sausage and some onions, peppers and more cheese.
and since we are talking eggs I sometimes add one on top like this
For desert I got this idea from Jacques Pepin. An apple pizza that is top with sliced apples, butter and sugar and then after it comes out of the oven it is brushed with apricot jam.
Thanks Dan for being a ringleader. I look forward to seeing everyones pies
Kudos, You are an accomplished pizzaiolo Davvero molto bello!
And thanks for the video links
Diggin’ that apple pie, MT!
Pizza have limitless variations. Hydrations can be in the low 40’s all the way to the 70’s. And no doubt some go lower and others even higher than that.
Why did it takes us so long to celebrate pizza in a Community Bake?
Danny
I don't get to use mushrooms much because the wife won't eat them. The pie came out great!
For me, a perfectly round pie with a uniform cornicione is so professional and visually appealing. Great Job!
It wasn’t until I started using pans and screens that my pies took on the pro look. I continue to perfect my cornice.
Dan
Boy, you sure are making me hungry!
Chapeau!
-Nils
removed
I love the melt on your fresh mozzarella and putting the toppings under the sauce!
Dats a nicea pizza, c. The “leoparding” (brown spot on crust) makes the pie look like to cooked it in a wood fired oven.
Our home boy Will, aka the Pie King is bringing the TFL bread bakers into a new realm.
Danny
Will’s crust was the basis I needed to finally make a great crust! I can’t thank him and you enough. The crust will never again fail me. It was simplistic. I want a pizza oven but my sweet husband said” I don’t think you need one for baking 1-2 pizzas a month” . Ha!! He’s right I’m going to start baking them every week and then I’ll be able to justify lol!
Caroline, what kind of BBQ pit do you own? Weber kettles and Komodo type pits (Big Green Egg, etc) can be fitted with inserts that make them much better for pizza. I just ordered a Pizza-Porta for my BGE.
we don’t BBQ... I know we are unAmerican ! We actually have a propane 150,000 BTU open flame cooker that my husband does his Chinese stirfry on. There is a Chinese grad student who started selling them several years ago and has continued to improve them. It’s great. He has a 16” wok that’s almost 50 yrs old that we got when we got married. He can get a fantastic grilled flavor by putting his cast iron griddle over the flame and then sears the meat on that but no way to use the propane pizza insert. I could just get a propane pizza oven and use his tank. And there is a combo oven that uses both wood and/ or propane . I may look into that again when we finish our renovation and build the new terrace.
Thanks for the suggestions and will look forward to your exploits
Caroline, I think you’ve solved my dilemma. I also wanted to allow the formed skin time to ferment and puff up a little before par-baking. By-the-way - I par-bake all of my skins before topping and baking. That really helps topping the pie and loading onto the stone. It also assures a completely baked crust and helps to prevent any sogginess.
Back to your solution... I feared allowing the skin to ferment a while before baking would cause it to stick. Enter parchment paper. First trace the pizza screen’s (or any other sufficiently sized round) outer diameter on the parchment. Then place the skin on the paper, using the traced circle to establish the perfectly round form. Put everything on the peel and allow it to ferment for a while. Then bake off. If oil is to be applied to the bottom and/or the top it can be applied to the par-baked skin just before topping and loading.
I like this idea, because the act of stretching out the dough removes the gas. A short fermentation should provide time to development a little lightness. We’ll see...
Danny
I brushed the whole sheet of paper and use it to form on the screen
Then place it on the screen- cut it later way easier to shape on the full sheet than on a small circle
Stretch the COLD dough so much easier
place it on the oiled paper that is on the screen and finish the shape using the edging of the screen through the oiled paper
let the shaped crust rise about 2 hrs ( this is the 2 hrs that isn't used when the dough is removed from the fridge)
you can let it go even longer if you like with no harm to it-the crust really gets beautifully risen
you don't need to parbake with this method as crust gets nicely puffy
slide the peel under the topped crust to remove from the screen and quickly trim the paper and slide it into the oven
you won't believe how well this works
Hope this helps. This whole process has turned me into a PIZZA MOMMA LOL ! I can hardly wait to make more....can you hear my husband groaning :) ????
...for posting such detail about your process. Knowing whether I’ve actually learned from it will have to wait for the proof in the pie next pizza night here. Malt in pizza dough and cheese on the bottom. Who knew.
Tom
please be sure to post the pies!
My favorite pie is sticking sprigs of fresh rosemary in the dough and then using a mandolin thinly sliced Fresh jalapeño, sliced potato with a sprinkling of whatever cheese you have that needs to be used up.
also if you freeze dough it works as a great cold pack while traveling..
TruthSerum, would like to see an image of your favorite pie. The ingredients sound interesting.
The kimchi was not popular with my culinary muse but I loved it.
Update June 27/19
Baked another two 9” personal sized pizzas today. I’m happier with how they turned out. Rather than “parbaking” them with just sauce I baked them after putting all the toppings on except the pecorino Romano and the basil. I have a better oven spring of the cornicione along with the tiny blisters on the cornicione. Baked for 8 mins at 550ºF again in a cast iron skillet.
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I'm late to the game having had visitors over the weekend. Yesterday I fed my starter twice and this morning started the levain. I will get the dough started this evening after having picked up some stoneground spelt flour yesterday for the first time. I'm hoping I can get a decent bake. I plan on making 4 9" pizzas over a couple of days and will post when I bake them.
Thanks to Danny for getting the CB going and to Will for the SD recipe which I will use.
Here’s my dough for a single 9” pizza after 24 hour proof in the fridge.
These pizzas were topped with sauce, mozzarella cheese, roasted red peppers, shallots, artichokes, olives and grape tomatoes. After they came out of the oven I added a mix of pecorino romano and Parmigiano Reggiano cheeses and basil leaves.
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I used my 9” skillet and placed my formed dough into it after it had been in the oven for 60 mins at 550ºF. I then spread the tomato sauce on it for which I used a Passata as the base adding fresh basil, oregano, salt, pepper, olive oil and some garlic salt. I then baked the first pizza for 1.5 minutes without toppings to give the dough a head start. I then pulled it out and put the toppings on it. It was then baked for another 6 mins.
This is the first pizza.
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We ate the first pizza which was pretty good, but I think it needed another minute in the oven.
So the second pizza I did the same process but gave it 2 mins with just the tomato sauce in the oven and then 6.5 mins with the toppings.
Here’s the second pizza.
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The second pizza had a bit of blistering on the crust which was nice. I suppose if I did the bake all at once rather than pull it out after the first 2 mins the blistering would have been even better. As well, I might have had a better edge to the crust with a more open crumb had I just bake it all at once.
We quite enjoyed the flavour and crispiness of the crust, my best pizza to date.
I have another two doughs in the fridge which I’ll bake tomorrow. It will be interesting to see the effects of another 24 hours of fermentation.
YW all white dough at around 70% hydration, bulk retarded. Sorry, a formula doesn't really exist as I mixed the dough up rather randomly.
Sauce: 中濃ソース (some consider it thickened Worcestershire sauce)
Toppings: Edam cheese, yellow bell peppers & aonori seaweed flakes
Wow unique toppings and flavour. It would be neat to make a pizza in the style of an okonomiyaki.
but not exactly... 中濃ソース is fruitier and sharper than okonomiyaki sauce. It's hardly as syrupy and salty as well. Most okonomiyaki are dressed with the sauce and mayo in a heavy-handed manner, which makes it impossible to eat without a cup of water on hand. This pizza is much lighter in that sense, even with all the cheese :)
Thanks for the comment!
Elsie, what is the “thickened Worcestershire sauce” made of? I’m curious.
It's composed of vegetables, fruits (tomatoes, carrots, apples etc.), vinegar, sugars (sucrose, glucose), salt, amino acid, spices, corn starch, fermented seasoning / polysaccharide thickener, sweetener (Licorice). The taste is sweet and salty with a bit of sourness. It surely resembles Worcestershire in that it carries the same pungent fermented flavor.
I posted this last week and Dan asked that I include the link to this pizza thread. See pics and a few comments on the recipe.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/60579/tonights-ny-style-pizza
Lots of good looking pies on this thread!
It seems the most common and frequently employed method for fermenting pizza dough is mainly via retardation. I am planning to use my SD bread baking experience and change things up as it relates to fermentation.
Since I like the lactic flavor of warm and long ferments tonight’s dough was mixed with 3% prefermented flour. It will ferment for at least 12 hours @ 79F, maybe longer if the dough looks strong. After that ferment has been pushed to near degradation it will balled, oiled, and bagged to be retarded for a yet to be determined time. I think convenience will be the determining factor for retardation time. They should remain ready in the frig from 4hr up to 48 hr, matbe longer.
I am hoping to shorten my normal 3 day retards to less than 1 day total time, all the while increasing the flavor. Hope it works...
BOY, have I been eating some great pizza lately. I think pizza taste better as rewarmed leftovers...
Dan
Have a question for the group.
We are all aware that pizza dough must be extremely extensible. Generally the long fermentation facilitates that. But, what about elasticity?
The basis for this question originates in the thought, how weak can a pizza dough become and still stretch out and have the skin remain intact?
My goal is to use a warm and extended ferment (similar to my SFSD method) to develop the maximum lactic flavor profile in the pizza dough. As the dough is pushed to it’s limit by this type of fermentation, it will consequently become weaker. And if left alone, completely degraded.
I would appreciate your thoughts and ideas...
Danny
Good morning, Danny.
I would recommend re-balling your dough 6-12 hrs. before shaping. Additionally, I think a cooling off period in the refrigerator could also be helpful.
PK, I am bulk fermenting for approximately 12hr @ 79F. Just pulled the dough from the proofer after 13 hr. It is strong and has a decent taste. Yes, I taste raw dough <LOL> I balled the dough, oiled and placed in plastic bags inside a round container. The dough balls are placed in the frig with the bags left opened to dispel moisture. Tip from Tom, aka the Dough Doctor.
So far things are looking very good.
I think the dough would taste great, even if I omitted the retard and bench rested the balls a couple of hours to relax before shaping. If this works, it will be possible to make dough at 7PM and the bake pizza the next day at noon. AND the dough should have a great flavor! At least I hope so...
Dan
The SD experiment is complete.
Used 3% prefermented flour, 15% whole grain, bulk Fermented the dough for 13 hr @79F, then balled and retarded for 24hr.
Note to myself - don’t forget the sour cream. It should be added after the pie has cooled a bite and just before it is cut.
Lessons Learned
1. Picked up a tip on this CB. Put slices of cheese down first, then add the sauce. The crust was much more dry and crispy
2. Keep whole grains to 10% or less.
3. Don’t forget to degrease the pepperoni and add the sour cream after the pie cools and just before cutting.
4. This is a biggie. Don’t use a 16” pie screen when the door opening for your Pizza-Porta is 14” wide :-D
Conclusion
I think 15% whole grain was too much. The gluten was not developed enough to properly stretch the dough. Maybe the dough wasn’t developed enough initially. Wished the dough was stretched and folded during the BF. At any rate The dough was rolled out and that worked well. UPDATE: I failed to consider the 63% hydration, coupled with 15% whole grains (100% extraction). Maybe if the hydration was increased the gluten would have developed more elasticity and stretched out better.
The flavor was very nice, the SD added something nice to it. The texture and chew was different, but pretty good. It was very crispy and the bite was a little dense, but that suited me. When using whole grain in the future it seems 5-10% is sufficient for me.
The winner - the sourdough flavor.
OH! The Old Bay seasoning salt is still tantalizing my pallet.
Dan
Let me make sure I understand. Are you recommending reballing dough that was previously balled? If so, what is the benefit of reballing? I am interested to learn.
dan
It helps make an over fermented dough more workable. I don't know exactly why. But it does work. (*Tip from Tom.) Additionally, should you ever have a skin that ripped and is unusable, reballing and resting for a few hours will give you a second chance. No reason to throw it away!.
OK. Here's my second and final pizza for the community bake...
...4th of July white chicken pizza with artichokes and tomatoes
...sourdough crust
...pesto sauce
...mesquite smoked chicken
...fresh parm, fresh mozz, low moisture mozz
...served with a topping of chopped marinated artichokes and sun-dried tomatoes.
******
What follows was the first pizza...
...a classic "Puget Pounder" meat-lover's pizza.
- sourdough crust
- homemade sauce (from last year's garden tomatoes, canned with vinegar, onion, garlic, brown sugar, cayenne, allspice, cinnamon, cloves, ginger, tobasco and salt)
- grated parm, fresh mozz, low moisture mozz
- black olives, mild Italian sausage, pepperoni.
Baked at 550 in a convection oven (ie 585 final temp). Parchment, corn meal, baking stone, peel.
Served with more parm, red pepper flakes and fresh basil toppings. Greens from the garden on the side.
I hope to try a white pizza for the CB soon - still working on smoking the meat (a several-day process in itself).
Happy Baking!
You used the exact same topping as I did for my latest Community bake pie! (Pizza Friday) Mine is 18 inches hand stretched N.Y. style.
”- homemade sauce (from last year's garden tomatoes, canned with vinegar, onion, garlic, brown sugar, cayenne, allspice, cinnamon, cloves, ginger, tobasco and salt)
- grated parm, fresh mozz, low moisture mozz
- black olives, mild Italian sausage, pepperoni.”
How could you go wrong with all of those spices and seasonings? Especially diggin’ that tomato sauce. Great sounding combination.
Nice combo, Beth; chicken, artichokes and tomatoes! You have a flair for toppings...
I recently learned something about editing a post. In an effort to keep the Community Bake neat and tidy, I advocated a single post and editing that post for additional bakes. It works well, but I discovered a problem. It is true that additions (edits) to a previous post will cause that edited post to come to the top of the “Recent Comments” column on the Forum’s home page. Unfortunately the site does not send out email notification to alert the interested users of the new information that was updated in the original post. Unless I can think of a better way, next CB I will probably make new post for new bakes. That way interested users will be notified of the new info.
Thanks for joining the CB. In the next few weeks we are scheduled to feature Hamelman’s Swiss Farmhouse bread. It is a favorite of many bakers and indeed, a special bread. Hope to see you there...
Danny
Ok, I’m finally getting my pizza bake on! Thanks for organizing this CB, Danny. It’s been inspiring to see everyone’s creations!
I decided to depart from my usual “same day” dough for these pies, and have also built my dough with my own starter instead of ADY for the first time. This is the formula and process I used for the dough:
725g Caputo 00 (Red bag)
242g Gold Medal AP
605g Water (63%)
26g Salt
19g Active starter
Dissolve salt in water, mix in culture until it is well dispersed, add flours and mix until it comes together.
Knead ~20 times until the dough stiffens up, then let it sit 5 minutes
Slap/fold the dough ~10-15 times, if it is smooth at this point, continue on with bulk
If it is not yet smooth, let rest 5 minutes, then slap/fold a few more times until smooth
Bulk @ RT for ~12 hours, divide into 270g portions, form into tight balls (6), then ferment ~12 hours
Here's how they looked after balling, and before the final 12H proof
My neighbor and I don’t have the gas burner for the Ooni 3 yet, so I decided to cook all of my pies in my Kettle Pizza. I build a semi circle of unlit Kingsford in the back of my 22” Weber kettle. I use coal baskets to keep the briquettes where I want them (the goal is to keep the stone from getting much, if any, direct flame/heat). Fire up a full Weber chimney of Kinsgford until it’s all lit up, then spread evenly over the unlit charcoal. Assemble the Kettle Pizza, and let go for 30-45 minutes. About 10 minutes before the first pie goes in, add two small oak wood splits to the top of the charcoal.
Pizzas cook quickly at 800 degrees, so mise en place is important (dough balls are not pictured off to the right)
Started with a grilled Caesar salad (fast grilled romaine halves, drizzled with Caesar dressing, parmesan on top)
First pizza sauced, then topped
Second pie (pesto, shrimp, mozz and a bit of parmesan)
So, I was really pleased with how the dough turned out. I think the amount of starter I used was just about right for the 24H process, though I think I'll drop it to 1.5% next time, as I think I was getting a bit too much development going on (had to move the balls to the fridge for a couple of hours in the afternoon.....it IS a bit warm today.) My fire management is rusty, and I had enough logistics issues that I was only able to get the minimal amount of photos as I was assembling pies, getting them cooked, and then served.....repeat. I need to replace my wooden peel that died, as I forgot that the metal peel tends to get warm as I manipulate the pie on the oven, and that makes it hard to build the next one.....
All in all, this was fun to do, I have a new dough formula to play with, and we got to eat some great pies! Thanks again, Danny!!
Rich
Sounds like a busy but fun afternoon! You pizzas look yummy! I love those "leopard" spots, I forgot what the proper term is??? Why did you mix the 00 flour with gold medal?
Yippee
Thanks, Yippee! I've used a blend of Caputo and AP for a while, as I can't get my KP up to true neapolitan temps (and keep it there) reliably. A dough of pure Caputo really needs that high heat 8-900F in order to cook a pie in 90 seconds, and get the characteristic browning/leoparding. Since my temps tend to be 7-800F, I find that a little AP in the mix keeps me from having a really blonde crust. I usually go with 50/50, so this time with 75/25 (Caputo to AP) was an experiment (that worked, ok, though I may up the AP next time.)
Rich
Great writeup, Rich! The grilled and halved Romaine is a great add on. Hope to give that one a try soon.
Did you hear? I bought a Pizza-Porta, working to get it dialed in. I have an 18” BGE and a 16” stone. Pretty sure the stoneks size is limiting air flow. manufacturer recommends a 14” stone. May need to change that. How do you setup your pizzas stone? Do you use some sort of heat shield underneath it?
Is Caputo (red bag) Chef’s flour. I tried Caputo Pizzeria and Americana. They are both super fine flours that develop the silkiest, smoothest gluten network. But they don’t seen to tolerate long fermentation well. I read that Chef’s flour is formulated for long fermentation.
It is obvious from your images, you are setup for serious pizza!
The leoparding on the shrimp pesto pie is gorgeous...
Dan
Thanks, Danny! Try the grilled romaine, it's easy, and a nice twist on the classic Caesar!
I did see that you acquired a Pizza Porta. Hopefully you can get it dialed in with your BGE. With the KP, I build a semicircle of coals around the back of the kettle. This keeps direct flame mostly away from the stone itself, so it gets mostly indirect heat. This wouldn't work in your Egg, of course! My IR therm was temping the stone between 7-800F when I could get a good reading.
You are correct, the Red Bag Caputo is the "Chef's Flour", and it does say on the package "for long fermentation baking". I like the feel of the dough from this flour, too, and it seemed to tolerate my 12H process pretty well. I wish I had more time last night to really pay attention to how the crust looked after baking so I could provide a better assessment. Maybe I'll just need to mix up another dough ball or two just to play around. :)
Rich
Your pies look delicious Rich, especially the one with shrimp, yum! The grilled Cesar also sounds great.
Thanks, Benito!
R
Rich:
Could you share the recipe of your pesto sauce, and how you prepared the shrimp (marinade, seasoning, etc.)? Thanks!
Yippee
Yippee, I just grabbed a tub of pesto from the store (didn't get my herb garden going this year, so no fresh basil!) For the shrimp, I just hit them with some salt and pepper, then onto the pizza they went. I might get a bit more creative with them next time, but, since this was my first time with shrimp on a pizza, I went with simple. :) I guess that doesn't help you too much does it! ;)
Rich
Here is our house pizza -- at least the Early Summer 2019 rendition. They vary with the seasons and as new inspirations arise (e.g., this CB. Thanks Danny! Sorry - not round ?). The long term goal has been to reproduce the style of pies we've enjoyed at several places in Lombardia, first and best at a stylish joint frequented by the local furniture manufacturing trade in Cantu-Brianza (cafe name lost to history, including to our hosts, since queried about it) and later at Baba Yaga in Bellagio. These pies are rolled out in sheeters and served on chestnut platters. Crusts are thin, delicious of course, and practically cornicione-less, which suits us fine yet difficult to reproduce a casa.
The particulars of our home version:
• Dough is essentially Ken Forkish's overnight CY but with fresh-milled durum (25%) and hard white (25%) plus 6% EVOO. The other 50% is Central Milling AP and is all in the poolish. Final doughs are 75% hydration which may be less than Forkish calls for (I don't recall), but that's because...
• Before refrigerating, they are divided and scaled to 100-115 g balls. Out of the fridge, they are shaped in our Imperia R220 pasta machine, in 2-point steps down to #2. One in this batch (lower left) was run through at #1 making it oversized and thus requiring folds at the ends to fit the Superpeel. #1-ing is always a tempting gamble but this one worked. Depends on seasonal dough wetness.
• Doughs are docked, painted with EVOO and blind baked in a 500˚F oven with convection for 3 minutes and with 180˚ rotation at the 1.5 min mark.
• Toppings vary with seasons in our vegetarian household, but our practice is always to pre-mix them in a bowl beforehand and spoon-spread onto blind-baked doughs. This week: Coarse shredded fresh-picked courgettes ('tis their season, fridge filling up), blanched 1 minute in (1) lightly salted water, cooled and squeezed "dry" + hydrated sun-dried SM tomatoes (from the excellent San Remo mercato) + fresh (WFM) mozzarella + chopped fresh Genovese basil, all combined in a bowl with one whole raw egg uniformly incorporated before spooning mix onto doughs, (2) shredded courgettes blanched in a potent refrigerator mushroom stock we maintain (the grayer topped pies shown here) + mozzarella + cold cured Kalamata olives + oregano + egg as above.
• All are baked 7 min @ 500˚F on a stone without convection. This batch was treated to fresh grated aged Piemontese Valgrana cheese just out of the oven (yet to melt on upper left pies).
Topping (1) above was the hands down winner of this lot. Just magically, synergistically fabulous flavor. The egg addition is our invention, migrated over from house standby sformato. It keeps the wet-ish toppings from making the crust soggy. In winter, the shredded courgettes are often replaced with blanched spinach + pesto which can make for some very soggy doughs. But these sturdy little pies can easily be held in one hand without flopping. And I will provisionally claim that painting the docked doughs with EVOO before blind baking markedly reduces "pita-ing".
Happy pizza making!
Tom
I learn so much from these CBs.
My 3 best take aways from your writeup.
It is interesting how much the cornicione rose after being sheeted. You mentioned your method for preventing soggy dough. Just recently started laying down a layer of sliced cheese on top of the par-baked skin. After that layer the pie is topped. The crust remains super crispy and dry. Used to grate cheese, but after the slices melt you can’t tell the difference.
Thanks for sharing your innovative twist about pizza pies.
Dan
Thanks Dan,
Clearly one doesn't have to sculpt the cornicione while shaping -- it will form by itself unless actively restricted, as in sheet pan pizze. It would disappear from ours if I were bold enough to run the toppings all the way to the edges. But I am afraid of spilling raw eggy topping onto the cloth of our precious Superpeel. Hence I top relatively conservatively. OTOH, the cornicione on these little single serving pies probably stabilizes them from flopping while handling.
Tom
In WNY we call it old fashioned. it's basically a Sicilian but only Romano after it is done. Will update more in a few, but wanted to start the post so I would finish it..
Duplicate post
After checking my records, I found that the photographed dough ball/disk was frozen for 336 hours, with a 48 hour slow refrigerated defrost. (16days total from inception.) In the hopes of achieving a better oven spring, I will double the room temp pre-bake bench warmup to 4 hours. Results to follow.
Kind regards,
Will F.
The quintessential plain cheese NY style pie.
Time to make some more dough. This last dough ball was from frozen. The sourdough skins loses a lot after 7-10 days frozen. Still a very nice NY style pie. I am going to make a batch of three sourdough balls for the refrigerator and a batch of three IDY balls for the freezer. I think the IDY will fair better from frozen.
Will's sauce (7/11 base)
Parmigiano on the sauce
20 oz.Grande East coast blend mozzarella
From frozen sourdough skin @ 18"
Your cheese pizza is gorgeous. Picture perfect. The browning on the cheese screams, “eat me”!
Danny
Very tasty indeed!
Will, how was your oven setup to produce such beautifully browned cheese?
Was the stone set high?
Did you use the broiler?
What temp? Convection or not?
I want the whole scoop...
Also did the cheese produce a lot of oil? If so, how do you handle that?
The 16" round steel is set just below center. The oven temp. is turned up passed broil to as far as it will go. I have confirmed 560-570 F. The broiler is never employed in any of my bakes. Convection is unavailable.
This CB is obviously winding down, but I made another two individual pizzas with my 9” cast iron skillet and I’m so pleased with the outcome. I’m feeling quite comfortable working with the sourdough pizza dough now and quite happy about the thin crispy, tasty crust.
Today’s pizza was a white pizza, no tomato sauce. It had olive oil, pecorino Romano cheese, smoke prosciutto, peaches and arugula, so delicious. I never eat white pizzas but I’m glad I made and ate this one.
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Super nice and thin crust, Benny. Great color on the bottom. You can tell, looking at the bottom crust shot that no moisture seeped through.
I have started putting down a layer of sliced cheese first, then adding the sauce and other possible moist ingredients. After doing this for a bunch of pies I can say that the cheese slices will seal the crust from unwanted moisture.
Dan
Danny, I layered in this order on the dough, olive oil, pecorino Romano cheese, smoked prosciutto, then peaches. The arugula obviously went on after the pizza came out of the oven. The fat from the prosciutto rendered and flavoured the pizza very nicely and as you said, the crust remained dry and crisp.
Benny
Enough said...
Here's my bake from the weekend. I've been using Caputo Pizzeria (big blue bag), but suffer a lot from lack of extensibility, so decided to try something a little softer. A shop near me sells Frumenta Tipo 0 (10.7% protein), from Grandi Molini, so I bought a 1kg bag of that and found it a lot easier to work with.
Formula
100% Frumenta tipo 0
61.5% water
0.013% calcium carbonate - my water is very soft and Italian flour is not fortified
0.05% IDY (Dove's Farm, ascorbic acid free)
2.7% Trapani salt
Process
Dissolve calcium carbonate and salt in the water
Mix IDY into the flour and sift through a kitchen sieve. Nothing is separated, but I found it makes the dough less lumpy. Caputo especially seems prone to lumpiness.
Water in the mixer and add the flour
A very light mix - about 3 mins on low speed once the dough has formed
Turn out and give a few folds
A couple more folds half an hour later
Bulk ferment 18 hours at 20C
Ball up in 210g balls
Store in wooden dough boxes for 8 hours at 20C
Bake in the WFO, floor temp about 380C
Results
I'm pretty pleased with how these turned out. I'll reduce the hydration down to 60% next time as the balls were tending to stick to wooden boxes as I got them out.
I may also try a flour mix of 80% Frumenta and 20% Caputo next time.
Lance
Long fin albacore, caught roaming around the depths of the Hudson Canyon, 110 miles off the coast of N.Y. Critiria approximately 2009.
No, Pie King, my handle comes from the name of a class of sailing dinghy my Dad used to sail (and built two himself!).
The Albacore was a bigger sister of the Firefly, both made by Fairey Marine in Gosport, England with highly innovative construction techniques based on wooden aircraft construction. The Firefly was sailed in the 1948 Olympic Games.
Lance
said the blind man. One of my projects that has yet to come to fruition, I was to build a traditional inuit kayak. I am not dead yet so there is still time!
My dream pizzas!
Hey I have been looking for Frumenta/Grandi Molini. Just wondering where you were able to find it? I live in California.
-Mike
Did another two 9” pizzas to use up the remaining dough which started cold bulk fermentation 72 hours ago. I wanted to see if going another 24 hours would adversely affect this dough. Again I followed Will’s sourdough recipe above and made enough for 4 180 g portions as I thought that would give the right thinness that we like.
Cold bulk fermentation for 72 hours didn’t produce any deleterious effect on the dough that I could see. Perhaps if I was trying to stretch the dough for a 14” pizza there might have been a negative effect, but not for the size that I made.
The final pizza that I made had an incredible cornicione with tons of blisters and bubbles and the crust was thin and crispy with no seepage of the oil from the cheese, prosciutto or peaches. Again we loved the pizza. I will be making more sourdough pizzas in the future. Thanks for the CB to get me into pizza making.
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Hi Benito,
I'm super late on the Pizza community bake, but I would love to know what specific flour you use for your amazing pizzas, as this is exactly the kind of crust I would like to achieve (SD recipe + long cold bulk fermentation).. I've searched the threads but am now more confused than ever about what flour to use for long fermentation...Some say Caputo blue bag, some say to not use Caputo Blue bag....I'm lost!!! Thanks in advance!
Gaëlle
Hi Gaëlle you're never too late on a CB, they remain open indefinitely so feel free to post when you've made the pizza. I actually use my usually bread or all purpose flours. I have yet to buy tipo 00 for pizza dough. I supposed I should try tipo 00 at some point but I have so little space for more flours in my apartment. Try making the pizza dough with your white bread flour first, you might be surprised at how well it turns out.
Benny
Oh really?? My goodness me, it's so complicated!!! ...I thought that AP flours (quite low in gluten) would not stand a chance in the long bulk fermentation process...
The last time I used my Anita's AP flour and I ended up with a terribly stretchy dough but with no spring back at all after 48h in the fridge / aNd when I used my regular strong bread flour, the opposite happened: impossible to stretch the dough!!
Thank you so much for your quick reply Benito :-)
The pizzas I just posted in my blog were made with Anita's AP flour and they turned out well.
Benny
Made this one tonight. I used the pizza calculator online and switched the yeast for sourdough starter. It’s 80% bread flour the rest is whole wheat, semolina and spelt flour. Toppings are Italian sausage, bacon, mushrooms? hot peppers, green olives and onions. Baked in a black stone pizza oven
I was very pleased with this one!
Very nice looking pizza pie!
What a great looking pie! It looks perfect...
7/11/2019 - Another plain N.Y. street slice pie.
Parmigiano on the sauce, 16oz. cubed whole milk grande mozzarella cheese. Sourdough skin, cold fermented 48 hrs. 726 grams stretched to 18".That's all I can think of.\
You’ve got the NY Thin down.
Have you ever tried a Cracker Crust?
However, at some point I may try my hand at a big fat Sicilian pan pizza!
All preps done, pre launch check A-okay. Pre heat ignition in T minus 22 minutes.
I call this the puffy rim.
Gorgeous pie Will.
You are a gentleman and a scholar!
You are truly The Pie King!
Truth be told the ingredients have more to do with it than my skill. Look at that melt! I attribute this to the Grande brand Whole milk mozzarella. Additionally, look at how the Hormel pepperoni curls up, just perfect! Okay I will take credit for the sourdough skin...Smile.
My setup and very organized method is of paramount importance in my tiny Manhattan kitchen.
The dough for this bake was from frozen. Made on 7/9 and put directly into the freezer. 24 hrs. ago it was placed in the refrigerator. This morning at 6AM It was punched down and re-balled. At 1:30 PM it was removed to room temperature for a 5PM stretch and bake. Worked a peach, I got some oven spring and a nice N.Y. chew. The rest is pretty much self explanatory. Smile.
You said you punched down the dough the same day you stretched it out to bake. Doesn’t reballing make the dough hard to open up and stretch out? Doesn’t reballing so close to stretching make the dough highly extensible?
I ask because I had a hard time with a Cracker Crust because I reballed hours before stretching. It was extremely hard to open and stretch out the dough. I actually had to use a rolling pin to get the job done. Any ideas?
I’ll be doing Cracker Crust tomorrow...
Danny,
I re-balled at 6AM this morning, that was 11 hr. before I stretched it out. I find that my dough balls that are cold fermented for over 72 hrs. or frozen are way to extendable. Re-balling gives it back just enough elasticity to get a nice even base with no thin spots.
Makes sense...
My problem occurred when using a cracker crust dough with a 55% hydration (including oil). The hydration difference probably accounts for different characteristics.
When I made the fried bread with egg out of the week old low hydration dough I found it to be very elastic, I flattened and rested a few times and was able to get them shaped with out a rolling pin. Maybe you right about the lower hydration?This was 57 not counting in the oil.
Lately, I’ve been stuck on Cracker Crumbs. Par-baking the skins are my go-to method. The par-baked skins are topped and the baked directly (without the pan) on the baking stone. Once the doughs are par-baked in a cutter pan, the are very easy to handle with toppings.
Danny
Friday night delight!
Dough ball from frozen... pepperoncini,East coast blend, grandma sauce and Pepperoni
Never ate pepperoncini. Are they very hot? How would you describe the flavor?
Hello, Danny.
I would describe the flavor as tangy bitter sweet. Compared to the much more mild roasted red bell peppers.
Tried another flavour combination yesterday and today. I marinated grape tomatoes, onions and arugula in a balsamic vinaigrette and put that on top of mozzarella cheese and lastly cracked an egg in the centre. Again, I made sourdough following Will’s wonderful reliable delicious sourdough pizza dough recipe and made 9” personal pan pizzas using my cast iron skillet. I’m quite happy with how well they turned out. Oh forgot to mention that after they are out of the oven, I put more of the marinated tomato/arugula on top for a bit of contrast between the cooked tomatoes and fresh uncooked.
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Benny
I think you are on to something, marinating the topping like you did.
Also, sliced full size tomatoes have watered down my pizzas, but the small plum/cherry tomatoes dont seem to be a problem.
Your post has inspired me. May just have to mix up a couple of cracker crust tonight. They should be prime for Saturday. A couple of weeks ago I made 3 16” pies. Gave 1 away, and saved a lot of of leftovers that kept me in pizza for the entire week. I prefer leftover pizza to fresh baked...
Idea - for those that want a full flavor experience, add some sour cream to your left over slice before microwaving.
dan
Benny, I love the sound of this combination! It sounds like the perfect well rounded meal.
Will, it was the first time I had an egg on pizza and I loved it. I will be making this again.
Benny
Julie it was really good, I hope you try it too.
If you are in the States or Canada I highly recommend Stanislaus 7/11 Tomatoes. I think Will, aka The Roadside Pike King uses them. Since I can’t source them locally they were ordered from Amazon. The flavor is like nothing I’ve ever tasted! I drained off the juice and started to slowly add salt and pepper. But as I sampled the tomatoes I came to the conclusion that these things don’t need anything. They are perfect as is.
But since they are packaged for retail and not home bakers they come in very large cans. Good news is you can put small servings in plastic zip lock bags and freeze. From everything I read they freeze very well and they take up very little space.
I also came up with another idea. I like them so much, I plan to fill mason jars and jar (canning) them for storage. This way they won’t take up freezer space and we can use them in preferred portion sizes.
By-the-way, the juice that is strained of (to make the sauce thicker) is super tasty. These tomatoes are so good, I may never process fresh tomatoes again.
I hope some of you give them a try and let me know what you think.
Dan
Oh, I got so excited about the tomatoes, I forgot the pizzas. Here are today’s pair. If anyone is interested in a killer Cracker Crust let me know.
I do love these California grown tomatoes very much. I am glad you like them too. I did not find the 7/11 to have much juice at all. I made my few additions straight from the can, the resulting sauce was just the right thickness for my liking. You may also like their whole plum tomatoes, also sold in #10 cans. (Alta Cucina Whole Tomatoes,) These are packed with more juice.
Pizza is not my forte...I want it to be desperately because we have no take away places near us that sell anything edible. We used to until they changed ownership. But every so often I just have to make it and see how it goes. Bread takes up most of my kitchen and oven time, but with all the apple yeast water I've had going lately I thought it would be perfect for some pizza.
So This dough is made with a mere 51 grams of yeast water, which I find kind of incredible. So much comes from so little..
From this:
to this:
To this :
You are an impressive pizzaiola, indeed! Can I ask you a couple of questions?
1. what is the hydration of your pizza dough?
2. How many grams each are your dough pillows?
Thanks
Will F.
Thanks Will!
Final hydration was at 67% probably actually 68% because of the oil I used in the bulk and final container.
Each dough was 230gr.
This is the complete process:
For 4 dough balls of 230 grams for a total of 920 grams
Build 1 :
86 grams 5 stagione tipo 00
51 grams apple yeast water
Fermented for about 6 hours at RT where it tripled in size and had a nice dome
Build 2 :
120 grams 5 stagione tipo 00
76 grams regular water
137 first build
Fermented overnight for about 10 hours at RT where it more than tripled and had just peaked
Final dough:
308 grams 5 stagione tipo 00
217 grams water
10 grams salt
51 grams discard (for some extra flavor)
333 grams apple yeast water levain
Started with 1 hour autolyse but felt the dough needed a little more time so I could mix by hand. Ended up with a 2 hour autolyse.
I added the rest of the ingredients in one go to the autolyse dough. It was a little strong so I had do some old fashioned elbow grease mixing and kneading, then gave it a 1 hour rest and then did one fold. Since it still felt strong and tight, I decided to leave it at 1 fold. I used a good glug of nice olive oil in my bulk container as a sort of double hydration/bassinage. Which the dough absorbed by the end of bulk. It really started to take off and at 3 hours had almost doubled so I decided to divide and shape.
After shaping it wasn't slowing down so after 15 minutes it went into the fridge at for about 26 hours. Yesterday afternoon at around 2 I took them out for dinner around 7. It was lovely and easy to stretch.
Coincidently my sourdough pizza dough is also at 67%. I am not home right now, after work I will post you my soughdough pizza formula. I make large N.Y. style pies (18") My dough balls are upwards of 700 Grams each.
Julie your apple yeast water pizza looks incredible!
Benny.
I think homage to Nick at PizzaMaking.com is in order and only reasonable. The pies keep getting better and better... And each time I can’t imagine how that is possible.
The time spent and your efforts to publish your Cracker Dough journey was not in vain.
I have no need to tweak the crust, but experiments with the toppings are on-going. Some of my favorites are black olives, thin mandoline sliced bell peppers and onions, Roth brand Chevre goats cheese, and a big shout out to Old Bay seasoning (with lemon). I just tried rubbing a toe of raw garlic on the par-baked skin. Will post that results after tasting.
Oh, I also fermented this dough at RT (~72F) for 17 hours, no refrigeration. We appraise after tasting.
Update: after tasting this pie, I am happy to say this this is the very best pizza I’ve ever eaten, anywhere! It is crunchy, super thin, and the rubbed garlic is coming through. Not sure if the 17 hr warm ferment enhanced the crust or not, but it is the best ever. Next time, more garlic will be added to the skin. Maybe super infused oil oil.
NOTE - the fourth image below shows why I like to par-bake. It eliminates stress, is crispy, and the pie can be loaded by hand (no peel).
Par-baked skins make loading a pizza easy. No peel necessary. See image below and to the right.
And last but definitely not least our home-boy Will, the Pie King! Thanks for inspiring me to get back into pizza. My waist line hates you, but my soul is pleased.
Danny
Amazing results with your cracker crust Danny, bravo.
Benny
I was planning on a two day ferment, but circumstance resulted in making two pizzas six days after. It turned out as one of my nicest bakes. 8% sourdough culture refreshed 3x over 2 days, 1/4 tsp of SAF yeast, 3% salt, a dash of olive oil. 63% hydration, King Arthur Patent Four (12.7% protein) was 90% of the flour, with 10% home ground 100% whole wheat. I usually add 1tbs of home brewers malt to help with browning but forgot. I split the recipe to fit in my food processor, 60 - 90 seconds of pulse and run time. I combined the two dough balls in an oiled bowl covered in plastic wrap and bulk fermented three hours and placed in the refrigerator overnight. Day 2 showed a good rise. I gently pulled the dough a few rotations, split into two equal balls and placed each in individual oiled containers with lids for the next five days at 40 degrees.
I preheated my baking steel for one hour using 550 degree convection setting. The bakes were about 7 1/2 minutes. The dough, sauce and cheese were taken out of refrigerator about 2 hours prior to warm up. I gently pre-shaped the both dough balls into 10" rounds. After 10 minutes I shaped the first into a 16" diameter. What was interesting to me is the second dough rose higher which I attribute to sitting on the counter about 10 minutes longer than the first before stretching into the full 16" size. That extra time allowed the dough to rise slightly resulting in a higher rise in the final product.
Taste was refined, complex, creamy and soft inside with a nice exterior crust. I was very happy with the result! Going forward I will target 4-6 day cold fermentation. I once went 7 days with great results. The baking steel works better than my stone and convection setting at 550 degrees worked very well too.
Nick, does the sourdough give the pizza dough a noticeable flavor? And is it intense? The yeast seems like it is adequate for leavening.
Dan, the taste is not sour at all, given the way this dough is made. Think of a culture as a poolish rather than one that introduces a sour flavor. Unlike the one stage build for pizza, sour and the degree of which is a function of building the dough in stages over several days with two to three builds, and usually at a warmer temperature (75-80 degrees) and using the culture for up to 13-30% of the total for the first build, up to half of total for the second addition day two, and finally the last 50% day three. There are many many variations on the approach to achieve a desired mild to strong sour taste. That is how many of the German, Polish, and northern European breads are made, typically with high level of rye. San Francisco Wharf style made famous by Boudin Bakery (see YouTube) is another example of all white flour, but using methods designed to generate a mild sour taste The approach I used starts with an old SFran culture but the same day build does not product sour notes, but a delicate and complex set of flavors vs. yeasted build.
For the pizza, the culture/poolish is built up over a day or so for vitality. Then all ingredients go in at once. The days in the fridge vs. yeast contribute to more flavor and complexity, greater extensibility on the dough and more. See the links below on the differences. There are many symbiotic natural yeast strains in a culture vs. one mass produced yeast strain designed to produce lift and not flavor. Attributed to modern mass produced bread that want to focus on maximizing production and short rise times vs. complexity of flavor. Side poolish vs. a yeast baked pie, the difference is noticeable. My recipe included a tiny bit of yeast for extra lift, but it is not needed if you build the culture several times and use it at peak. I live in NJ and work in NY. There are plenty of excellent pizzerias using yeast with dough made daily - as there are in many parts of the country. Using a poolish is simply a different style. Using same with 2-6 day refrigeration add complexity, not sour. I inserted a picture of a crust I made last month which shows a side shot a a slice and the interior of the edge, soft and creamy with a crisp outer crust - due to hydration ratio and the culture. There are many more links on the web and by using the search box above right and typing in "poolish" and also trying "sourdough", you will see many posts on the differences of yeast vs. culture. Hope this helps others on what has been a never ending quest for pizza perfection. I have also used the same recipe for Detroit style pan pizza. There are many more knowledgeable than I in other TFL posts and in the links below. Use of a baking steel as stated in the original post makes a huge difference too! Thanks DanA!
Had trouble logging in earlier, Floyd now fixed the Captcha issue...
https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-levain-poolish-sourdough-biga-and-dough-starter
https://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/more-artisan-bread-baking-tips-poolish-biga/
In the past my pizza dough has always been a yeasted dough and I have always been wary of SD pizza even though all my bread is SD. so yesterday I finally mixed up my first SD pizza dough as per the recipe posted here at the start. My only change was to replace most of the whole wheat with whole spelt.
Tonight I baked it and it is just the best! thin, light and crispy! never managed that before! so from now on I will make this my go to recipe.
Now I just have to get the toppings right (I just used what I had) - The base was a real surprise so thank you Danny and Roadside PI for this.
happy baking
Leslie
Awesome pizza Leslie, this recipe for sourdough pizza is excellent. Since the CB I haven’t bothered to try anything else because we like it so much.
Benny
it was very good. thanks Benny
Leslie
Leslie, did you replace all of the whole wheat with spelt? If not what were your percentages? It’s time for pizza around here.
I hadn’t thought of it before, but the spelt should make the dough more extensible, which is a great quality for pizza dough.
IMO, the toppings are browned to perfection.
I had possibly the best pizza ever about a week ago from a Pizzeria. It had tiny pieces of bacon either in the sauce or scattered over the sauce.
Hope all is well in your part of the world...
Danny
but yes I replaced the whole wheat with spelt (I had some home milled spelt left over from an earlier bake and there was just enough for the 350g pie) and bread flour. the dough was very soft. I tightened it up again this morning and then again when I pulled it out of the fridge. then I just patted it out easy peasy! lol, I am really happy with it. I really like some hot spicy salami in my pizzas but I don’t have any atm so will definitely try again soon. I like this better than the cracker base though. Funnily enough, I had just made SD crackers and used all my whole wheat and couldn’t be bothered milling some more so used up the spelt instead.
Otherwise things are ok here, the COVID19 restrictions are being eased and life is a little easier than it has been.
thanks Danny enjoy your pizza
Leslie
Leslie, I tried Pie King’s SD formula using 10% Whole Spelt. The dough was a dream to stretch. The spelt made it super extensible.
I decided to give KendalM’s suggestion of fermenting the dough on the counter for 20 hours. For me, I prefer the clean flavor of Commercial Yeast for Pizza. His extended fermentation is an intriguing concept. It worked well with the dough and produced an intense flavor.
See a more detailed writeup HERE.
Dan
It's a pizza-terrific experience!
Click here for pizza
My favorite is escarole pizza. I`m always making it by one recipe and it is delicious.
Ingredients for the mixture:
For the stuffing:
For brushing:
How to prepare the escarole pizzaTo prepare the escarole pizza, first, pour some room-temperature water in a small jug. Bring out the fresh brewer's yeast and mix it with water until completely dissolved. Let the yeast rest and in the meantime, place about 30% of the flour on one side of the sideboard (or the wooden or glass bowl you will use to knead); the sideboard is a rectangular wooden container, which can withstand the temperature of the dough well and prevents it from sticking to the edges. Also, pour the water on the other side of the sideboard, avoiding pouring it directly on the flour.
Then add the salt to the water and dissolve it with your hands. When you no longer feel any grain to the touch, start mixing the flour inside the cupboard with both hands.
Add a little more flour and gradually mix it with the water with your hands, using rotating movements. When you have inserted about 50% of the powder, add the previously dissolved yeast. Continue adding flour little by little continuing to knead with your hands with circular movements until you have mixed it all. Using your hands allows you to better adjust its consistency in order to understand if it is necessary to add flour or not. At this point, continue to knead the dough inside the cupboard for 10-15 minutes until it is smooth and consistent. Now you just have to rest the dough, leaving it somewhere and covering it gently with a slightly damp cloth in contact with the surface of the mixture. Let it rest for at least 4 hours at room temperature.
After that time, the dough will have risen; sprinkle with a little flour and transfer it on a lightly floured surface. Divide the dough in half, then add a little flour and give each portion a spherical shape. Place them in two different bowls, previously sprinkled with a bit of flour. Cover again with damp towels and leave to rest for another 2 hours.
In the meantime, preheat the oven to maximum power. Desalinate the capers by rinsing them several times under running water, cut the escarole taking the most tender part, then rinse and dry it. Then take one of the two doughs, transfer it to the lightly floured surface and flatten it with your hands, giving it an oval shape, and helping yourself with a little flour. Repeat the same operation with the other dough, making sure to obtain two disks of the same size. Position one half of the escarole in the center of one of the two discs, leaving at least a couple of inches free around the edge.
Then add the desalted capers, the pitted olives, and season with a drizzle of oil.
Add the anchovy fillets by breaking them with your hands and finish with the escarole kept aside. Place the other dough disc on top and apply light pressure with the fingers to seal it.
Using a pastry cutter, trim the edges by cutting the excess of dough and eliminate them by pulling gently with your hands. Paying close attention to the curly endive, that at this stage could puncture the dough, lift the escarole pizza and transfer it inside a non-stick pan. With a brush soaked in oil, grease the surface of the pizza very gently. Cook the pizza in the preheated static oven at maximum temperature for about 12-15 minutes. Then take out of the oven and serve it!
Recipe from https://recipes.cafe/en
Do you have any pictures? I’d love to see your pizza.
You wrote, “
What is brewer’s yeast. 1/4+ cup sounds like a lot.
Danny
Very nice to meet you. have to agree with Danny. Your formula sounds incredible! Photos would be very much appreciated! Thanks for posting!
I don't think too many would argue with the convenience of having a couple of 4 or 6 pizza dough balls in the freezer.
This dough ball has already defrosted cold and slow for 24 hrs. Some evidence of fermentation activity is evident. Tonight's bake is scheduled for 5:00 PM. At 3:00 PM the dough ball will be removed for two-hour bench rest. I have noticed a slowing of the cold pizza dough fermentation, now that I was able to drop my refrigerator temperature to 41F. I may have to consider, A. Longer bench rest. B. 48 hour cold defrost/ferment. I was not 100% happy with the oven spring of my last pie.
I am happy with this pie.
And well you should be, Will! That is a beaut... They don’t call you RPK for nothing.
Will, once you finalize (maybe you already have) your testing of frozen pizza dough balls, please consider a complete write in a dedicated post. I am very interested to lean, and surely others also. The ability to have a ready ball of dough to make pizza what have me making much more pizza around the Ayo camp :-)
It is a pretty easy procedure I will post the formula and my procedure tonight. Meanwhile, This is the uncooked pie. I changed from Hormel pepperoni to Enzo. I like Enzo much better. Less grease.
Thanks Will! I look forward to bookmarking it.
As far as greasy pepperoni. Have you tried microwaving (just long enough to extract the oil) them on a paper towel. It works excellent for me. IMO, they taste even better, and... no grease.
Will, I took my advice and just posted a Tip - Degrease Pepperoni on Pizza. Maybe others will find value in the idea.
White pizza
Dough recipe from Bruno Albouze. Topped with fresh mozzarella, parmesan, spinach, and onions. Seasoned with salt, pepper, oregano, thyme and garlic.
That's-A-nice-A-thing!
My pies are getting so consistent it's becoming boring to post them. However, I will anyway!
East coast blend Grande mozzarlla and ezzo peperoni.
Smile...
You are a Pizza Master
Beautifully stretched and perfection circular pizza. It looks delicious Will, don’t be such a stranger.
Benny
Yes, I miss hanging around the "bread club." That being said, I have had my hands full with cooking full-on two and three-course meals and getting used to cooking farm-fresh. Using whatever is harvested on a weekly basis. I have made some pastries, and cookies along the way (utilizing the farm box produce.) The bread, I just have not had the time.
Example.
Two carrot pies, one sweet and one savory. Both the fillings were as light as air! I am hard-pressed to know how pumpkin overtook carrot for sweet pie filling over the years!
I am so very happy to have participated in my first ever CSA! The L.F.C./NYU winter CSA was great! I kept my promise to myself, I hardly let any food go to waste. It was challenging to learn a new, better more sustainable method of consuming fresh food. Now I am stoked, and ready for the summer share to begin!
All that being said, I got into a bit of a rut and found myself with a full produce bin. I did not want to waste such wonderful fresh greens. Here is what I did...
Giant Green Pie (Torta Pascualina, can for sure be considered a stuffed pizza)
So, friends here we have another all-around success. I achieved the goal of using a whole lot of very nice green leafy vegetables. As a bonus, I now have another very cool pastry in my tool kit!
(Arugula, spinach, dandelion greens baby rainbow chard)
I have been making pizza often lately. The first version with sausage and caramelized onions uses 25% whole wheat and 75% unbleached white all purpose flours. The others use all unbleached white all purpose. I use a 250g flour weight dough for a 14" pizza. The final result is thin crust, but not "New York" thin.
Pizza with sausage, caramelized onions, fresh mozzarella and sauce.
White pizza with Brussels sprouts, onions and fresh mozzarella
White pizza with artichokes, onions, green peppers and fresh mozzarella.
Hi everyone,
I'm giving sourdough pizza a try for the very first time!
My pizza dough is ''fermentolyzing'' as I speak...I had to add a bit of water though (20g) to be able to fully hydrate every bits of flour...
I was wondering about the 1 hour only proof: Is there a specific rationale for that? is it one hour at a certain room temperature?? In most recipes, I see that you need to let the dough proof at least until a certain % of rising has been reached before retarding the dough into the fridge, to give the fermentation a kickstart, and it would usually take at least a couple of hours depending on the room temp...but not here? I would be very interested in knowing the why of this specific recipe...
Thank you in advance!
I am following Roadside's recipe as described in Benito's latest blog post:
For 4 9” pizzas NY style thin crust 200 g each
Levain Build 100% hydration 35 g needed
433 g bread flour / Anits's AP
43 g Whole grain flour (50:50 whole spelt:whole wheat)
4.76 g Diastatic malt 1%
252 g water+ had to add 20g to get all the flour fully hydrated
41 g water hold out
8.43 g salt 1.71%
2.5 g sugar 0.5%
4.8 g olive oil 1.0%
(1) In your mixer bowl(or by hand) dissolve the Starter or yeast in all of the Final Dough Water except the HOLD OUT Water. (Add diastatic malt too)
(2) Mix in the flours until well hydrated
(3) Allow to fermentolyse for 1hr
(4) Mix in the remaining HOLD OUT Water, salt, and sugar mix until well-incorporated.
(5) Slowly drizzle in the oil until well combined.
(6) Beat or knead by hand until dough is moderately developed. The dough will be sticky and elastic. If kneading by hand, use slightly wet hands and avoid adding more flour.
(7) Oil your hands and a suitable container.
(8) Shape into a tight ball. I divide the ball into four smaller ones each for one 9” pizza at this point. Each goes into a small oiled bowl and allowed to proof for 1 hour before starting cold fermentation.
(9) Cold ferment in the refrigerator for 48-96hrs.
(10) Remove to warm up to room temp for at 3-6hr or so before use, or you can ferment at room temp. for 6hrs. 2-3 hours seem ideal 80ºF
(11) Stretch the balls into your desired size skins (see video below), top and bake at 550F (as high as your oven will go) Until the crust is browned and the cheese has melted. Spin the pie at least once to avoid burning due to oven hot spots. I have included a link to a skin stretching tutorial.
Thank you in advance for your help!
Gaëlle
Ooops...Last-minute impediment.....So the dough ended up resting for 5 hours at 20° before going into the fridge...
What should I do next to compensate that ????
Thanks!
Gaëlle
I’d get it into the fridge ASAP and then on the other end, you might consider only giving it a very short bit of time on the bench prior to stretching. In fact I’d probably just go directly from the fridge. Although ultimately, this is pizza dough so it will be fine. If your bread dough overproofs, pizza is a good thing to make with it.
Sounds like a plan...But when do I divide and shape my balls then if I decide to go directly from the fridge??
You’d better divide them now. I usually divide before cold retard.
Ok, let's get those balls ready then !! :-)
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it came out really good considering all I have is my toaster oven. Baked at 450 for around…. 15-20 minutes? One was in my too small cast iron and the other was on a baking sheet and I implemented a stuffed crust for that one. My only thing is that I barely tasted the sourdough. I wish there was more of that flavor. I don’t know if that means fermenting 48 hours or more starter.