The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Dough issues

lukelim91's picture
lukelim91

Dough issues

Hi everyone,

I'm a (very) amateur baker living in Singapore (pretty hot & humid here all the time, room temperature is usually around 28 to 32 degrees celcius). I've had some successful loaves here but recently I've been having lots of trouble! Would appreciate any insights anyone would be willing to share.

Basically, I've been recently trying to incorporate an autolyse to my dough before adding yeast and salt. From what I've read online and browsed on this website, the autolyse can range from anywhere of 15min to well over half a day...

I've tried a short (an hour) and long (almost 10 hours) autolyse but have pretty much had the same issues either way; the dough while nice and extensible before adding salt & yeast becomes soggy/soupy after the addition of the salt & yeast. Just to add, I've tried hand kneading and using a stand mixer to add the salt & yeast. Needless to say, I've had quite a few loaves fail since trying to do an autolyse.

My recipe has basically been this:

150g strong white flour (13.4% protein)

100g fine wholemeal flour

50g coarse wholemeal flour

210g water

3g instant yeast

4.5g salt

What I usually do is mix the flour and water till there's no dry flour left and (with the most recent one) autolyse for an hour. Then bulk ferment for about 3 hours, with an overnight cold retard in the fridge.

I find that once I've kneaded in the salt and yeast, the dough becomes quite soupy and the gluten strands seem to just break(?). Not too sure if I have that right, but I can no longer pull a window pane, even after letting the dough rest for an hour.

Stretch & folds during the bulk ferment (about half hour to an hour apart) attempting to introduce some strength into the dough don't really seem to help either. And I find that the "skin" if I can get one to form, often dissipates after leaving the dough to rest for half an hour to an hour.

All in all, my loaves have been flat and dense and unable to hold their shape even before a pre-shape, final shape or going into a banneton. Would really really appreciate any advice! & if any more info is required do ask! Thank you

 

pmccool's picture
pmccool

I know that that doesn't fit the usual description of an autolyse but with your temperatures, it might help slow down what sounds like excessive enzyme activity.  Ordinarily, I would expect the dough to tighten and become more workable after the salt is added; quite the opposite of what you have experienced.

Another option would be to do a cold autolyse (especially for the longer runs).  Again, it's an attempt to keep enzymatic activity within bounds.

You could also dial back the time to just 15-20 minutes for the autolyze.

There's a fourth possibility: only autolyse the whole grain flours.  I'm not at all sure how much this will help, since the whole grain flours have more enzymes than the white flour.  It would mean that there is less opportunity for gluten damage to occur in the half of the formula's flour that isn't autolysed.

Best of luck as you sort out the variables.

Paul

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Getting the salt in early is a good idea.  

Because your humidity is 90% you might also want to keep the hydration lower or cover the dough tightly to prevent it from absorbing water from the air.  

Also, try putting the autolyse in the refrigerator.  

Use ice water when using the mixer as it can generate a lot of heat.

You can also reduce the yeast amount with warm temps.  Try using half.

I found adding salt later is easier by hand.  Yeast first.  Spread out the dough, sprinkle with yeast and lightly mist the surface with water or get the yeast wet with wet hands. Dissolve the yeast with finger play then Roll up the dough and do some folding before kneading.  Spread the dough out flat again to add salt.  Rolling it up and folding helps to prevent the initial reaction of layers slipping when trying to incorporate the salt.  Keep kneading until the salt is worked in evenly.  I find with a mixer, the dough just spins around.

What I have done to bring out flour flavours was to mix up half a loaf of dough completely, then refrigerate it.  Next day or later, mix up the same recipe but enough for a whole loaf, divide it in two.  Switch out the chilled dough and replace it with fresh dough.  Then take the other fresh half and combine with the chilled dough. Now knead them together and allow a short bulk to double in size.  Degas and shape.  Keep covered while rising.  See if that makes things better and easier.  

bread_to_be's picture
bread_to_be

and had the same problem. PM me.

CelesteU's picture
CelesteU

Autolyse for 20-30 minutes, max.  Then add the salt.  It's plenty long enough to get the dough going, esp at your ambient temps.  I live in the subtropics, so I can relate.  Also, quit with the stand mixer & mix in the salt/yeast by hand.  Sprinkle it atop the dough, fold dough onto itself, use thumb and forefingers to "pinch" through the dough mass, incorporating the salt/yeast into the dough, hitting all four points of the compass (or 12, 3, 6, 9 on a clock face).

After incorporating the salt/yeast, do another stretch & fold every 30 minutes.  REALLY stretch and fold, grab the dough and pull it upward & fold it over.  Don't just poke at it.  Do 2-3 more stretch and folds, 30 mins apart, then leave it alone.  Refrigerate after 3 hrs at ambient temp.

I don't think your ambient temp is the problem, it's your process.  Build the gluten thru the stretch and folds before refrigerating.  After the bulk ferment is done, you can encourage good oven spring through proper shaping, but not if the dough is poorly mixed prior.