Flour & fermentation time - bob's red mill vs central milling artisan bakers craft (from Costco)
I absolutely nailed a straight white loaf pan bread that I retarded for 9 hours yesterday. I used bob's red mill (no added malt in the flour) with 0.2% of added diastatic malt. I'm on a quest for repeatability. However, I ran out of bob's, and I had I bought central milling artisan bakers craft plus (added malt) from Costco (https://www.costco.com/kirkland-signature-organic-unbleached-all-purpose-flour-10-lbs-2-count.product.4000063331.html). So I decided to keep all other variables the same but switched the flour. I added 0.2% diastatic malt to this too, even if the labeling says malted. I did this especially because I was gonna retard it for nine hours, might as well feed the critters. I developed the dough to an identical degree best as I can tell.
However, the fermentation performance seems drastically different to me. Bob's bulk and proof behaved basically as expected. For the same amount of yeast, Central Milling seems waaaaay slower to rise. This seems very unexpected esp because they have added malt as well. I'm now worried that my loaf is ruined (in the wine cooler) because it's rising so much slower, we'll see what happens.
Has anyone had experience with Costco central milling flour? Should I add more malt? I have 20 lbs of this now and I'm kinda panicking. In a good way, but I'm panicking:)
I have been using CM flours for years without issues. I just want to point out that the all purpose variety is not the same as the Artisan Bakers Craft, commonly referred to as ABC. The protein content is at least 1% higher for the ABC.
You don’t give a lot of detail about your process, but in evaluating your fermentation are you judging that by volume? If so, it’s possible the reduced protein in the all purpose may not be providing the strength you are used to.
-Brad
Not with a 1% difference, I think. The extra protein would let the fermentation go on a little longer before petering out. In itself it wouldn't have much effect the the speed of fermentation before then.
I remember that we had a thread on Cosco's flours and how at some stores they had changed suppliers and some people had problems getting good performance. I don't use those flours and I don't remember any details. Search the posts for the subject, and see if you can find that discussion.
TomP
Agree that we no longer can be sure where Costco is sourcing their flour. I personally won't buy their self-branded flour now, but, then again, I have relatively easy access to the CM flours. Here's some further info on the flours mentioned:
BRM all purpose = 11.8% protein
BRM Artisan Bread flour = 13.9%
CM Beehive all purpose = 10.5%
CM ABC = 11.5%
The OP doesn't state which BRM flour used in the past, but there is a significant difference between BRM and CM. I started using BRM nearly 15 years ago, but switched to CM soon after. If following the same method and formula, the OP may not be developing the gluten sufficiently, or the hydration may be too high for the CM flour. As I originally asked, how is the OP evaluating the fermentation?
I make many lovely loaves with both CM flours, but slight adjustments are made in both method and formula to account for the differences.
-Brad
Is it AP flour or Hard Red Wheat Flour?
Is it 11.5% protein or 13.3% protein?
Costco had CM-branded bags for a number of years. Switched to green Kirkland bags a few years ago. Seems like the same stuff. At least I can’t tell the difference. Use it in ciabatta, baguettes, pizza, croissant. It works. Maybe there are regional differences in the Kirkland suppliers? Here in central California (Sacramento area) I’ve never had an issue.
I use BRM APF (for this experiment) and Kirkland green bag which is supposedly CM ABC+. Both are at 65% and gluten development is identical. I do judge fermentation by volume. Since the original post I've made 3 more loaves with Kirkland. The dough is *definitely* absorbing less water than BRM APF, it feels a lot more slack which is indicative of lower protein as well. I have a bag of beehive as well - in fact the Kirkland is behaving a lot more like beehive (very soft bread and lower water absorption).
Lower hydration? I am thinking I'll lower it to 62% and see what CM does.
Is Kirkland not the CM ABC+? I thought it was! If it's APF it's a whole other game...
When Costco was selling it under the CM brand a few years ago it was all purpose, not ABC. You can verify by calculating the protein content of the flour by dividing the protein (in grams) by the serving size listed on the side of the package. The ABC is 11.5% and the AP is 10.5%.
-Brad
It shows 4g protein from Kirkland, and 3g protein on Beehive (I have a bag of beehive). BRM shows 4g as well. I think I'll call CM and ask. It's not just fermentation, no height to loaves - even in loaf pans. I'm kind at the end of the rope trying to debug this now:)
Those numbers are likely rounded. Plus, there can be batch variations. It's difficult to get accurate numbers off of the bag. A product specification sheet is better, but often not easy to find for consumer-level product.
FWIW - that's the reason I won't use Costo stuff - works for pancakes - and then it's iffy. Enjoy!
You have the same experience with Kirkland bread flour?!
I don't use it if it comes from Cosco. Enjoy!
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/74202/costco-flour
Yippee