Issue with baking bread in steam-convection oven
Hey Forum,
I'm new here, so apologies for maybe not posting in the appropriate section.
I've been operating a small sourdough bread baking business and so far using only a normal kitchen oven. The results were great, but volume-wise I was not happy since I wanted to expand.
Usually my breads were baked on a steel, using boiling water in pan to generate steam. The breads were well baked after 35 minutes, had a nice distinctive ear to them, and a hard brown crust, which remained hard for quite some time.
Now, I bought this top of the line Hendi steam-convection oven with the hope that I would be able to bake more loafs at any one time, and also that the quality of the breads themselves would be improved due to the steaming function, plus it would introduce less hassle (not having to steam the oven using a dish and water).
Yesterday was testing time. I made my breads the night before, with my standard 75% hydration recipe. I insterted the brand new baking stone, preheated it for one hour at 275C, and then loaded up the first loaf. I selected the second setting on the steaming dial, and set the timer at 35 minutes. And watched.
I immediately noticed something going wrong, the bread wasn't producing any sings of ear development. I thought that maybe it could be a matter of time, so I waited. Still nothing. After 15 minutes and no improvement I gave up, turned off the steam and watched the rest of the baking process. The bread browned incredibly fast, and at 15 minutes left was, to my eye, already baked.
I took out the loaf and set it aside to cool. Came back 45 minutes later and to my disappointment the loaf was soft as a sponge, lacking the traditional browned tough crust on it, like all my breads before.
To sum up:
- no ear
- finished baking too soon.
- no crust development.
Overall very poor performance for a $3,500 oven.
I'm quite depressed at this moment, and don't know what to do. I got this whole kitchen built especially for my bred baking business, and now all my effort has been shot to smithereens.
Please forum, HELP!
Thanks,
B.
Photo of oven below.
Can you cancel the steam after about 10 minutes and finish in a drying oven? I have a Miele home oven that has a steaming function (Moisture Plus).
Cheers,
Gavin
Yes, I tried that too. No improvement of the crust at the end of baking.
I think you set an independent pit probe in the oven to check the accuracy. There is something amiss. I bake my sourdoughs at 238C and back of to 215C after fifteen minutes when the steam is finished.
I assume this is your oven https://www.hendi.eu/en/convection-steam-oven-6x-gn11-electromechanical-control-3019.html but while there is a manual online for a number of the ovens, I did not see a manual for this one. I would try to isolate the problem. Using an oven thermometer to check the temperature is a good first step, as gavin suggests. If that turns out not to be the issue, I would use it like you would use your normal home oven ( that is don't turn on the steam setting, but use the boiling water in a pan, and see if you get results similar to your normal home oven. If so, then you need to play with the timing of the steam ( or combi setting ) by starting at just a few minutes, and increasing it a few minutes per bake, to get the result you want.
I've been playing around with the settings:
275C with steam at 70% - poor oven spring poor ear.
200C with steam at 70% - even worse results.
Baked both for 30 minutes.
Crust still soft after cooling.
I saw a Craigslist ad for a convection steam oven posted by a bakery and I emailed to inquire about it. I did mention that I want to bake multiple loaves at home. This is what the bakery replied:
"It is a convection oven, so it does not have a hearth. So if you want to bake sourdough in it, and have really good results, you will need to put them in a dutch oven. Even with the steam that this oven has, it will not give you a good result."
So I don't know if it is the same reason why your bread doesn't rise nicely in your new oven.
Michelle
@Michelle - your post is right on the money. For the past hour I have been researching the use of a steam convection oven in baking, and came across multiple opinions and articles which state that such an oven is no good at baking wheat bread (rye is OK). They say the very hot circulating air pushed out by powerful fans dries out the bread skin too quickly and impedes the bread's rising process. It is said that a "hearth" oven, with specialist baking stones on the bottom and on top, paired with steam injection is the best atmosphere for a bread to properly rise during baking, giving you a well developed loaf, with an ear, and appropriate crust.
Years ago I bought a household combi oven primarily for baking bread, and don't use it for that purpose any more. I could never get great results, though there are other who have home models that get good results. I have said that I think the convection is the problem - though home models are also limited to 440 F, when a higher temp may give more browning.
Other options for baking bread include the Rofco and the Chandley https://chandleyovens.co.uk/product-category/artisan-bakery-equipment/ which are both not much more than a stone deck, a tightly sealed oven compartment with a method to add water to get it to produce steam. Neither uses convection.
I heard of Rofco, but they are not available in Canada and it is too much to pay for shipping to bring it over. What are the options for home bakers who want to make multiple sourdough loaves at home? I don't trust home oven. I have done four and the result was not good. Rotating the loaves isn't something I like to do. So I only two at a time...
If you have enough room, and you can live with baking one at a time, dutch oven, or Forneau. The Forneau is pretty expensive, though you can bake in an assembly line version, which means the first third or so of the bake time would be in the oven , the rest out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIp8TNu3bQk If you have to keep your current oven, I would first try a DO with the lid on, then remove the bread and put it on another rack to finish and see if you are happy. I doubt you will find a Forneau used ( that is how I got the original version ) but with a couple Forneau ovens, and with enough space to bake a few outside the oven, you could get quite a few done at a time. Another option is to go on Alibaba and see if you can find something you like - shipping is quite expensive, and not sure how reliable the sellers are . Another option is just to get a decent oven with a bake element , not a convection fan, like some of the Moffat ovens that have a bake element, add a stone, and a method to generate steam. Note that the Rofco just used a metal tray that you add water to, and others are similar, you don't need piped in steam, though some of the Moffat ovens offer that as well.
If you have enough room, and you can live with baking one at a time, dutch oven, or Forneau. The Forneau is pretty expensive, though you can bake in an assembly line version, which means the first third or so of the bake time would be in the Forneau , the rest out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIp8TNu3bQk If you have to keep your current oven, I would first try a DO with the lid on, then remove the bread and put it on another rack to finish and see if you are happy. If so, with a couple Forneau ovens, and with enough space to bake a few outside the oven, you could get quite a few done at a time. Another option is to go on Alibaba and see if you can find something you like - shipping is quite expensive, and not sure how reliable the sellers are . Another option is just to get a decent oven with a bake element , not a convection fan, add a stone, and a method to generate steam.The main thing is that you would want a tight seal so that the steam won't just vent out. Note that the Rofco just used a metal tray that you add water to, and others are similar, you don't need piped in steam, though some Moffat ovens offer a water feed that adds moisture , but not sure how well sealed , and you would want something with a bake element, or you would be stuck in the same place..
Thanks for the informative message. What a cute little oven! It sounds like a combi oven/steam convection oven or others that a bakery used isn't suitable for baking sourdough bread regardless of the brand...I was thinking of getting a different oven altogether for my bread making obsession. Yes I also bake other things like rolls, quick bread, cookies etc, but baking with my sourdough starter is my main interest. My husband will use the home oven for cooking (he tends to cook stuff that grease the oven all the time...) and I use my oven for my baking. I will keep "my oven" clean and tidy!
When you said get a decent oven with a bake element, what do you mean? I do bake my sourdough bread directly on a pizza stone, and create steam using various methods I learn from members on this website. Great result. This is the approach I am going after. But to ensure even bake, I can only bake two loaves max.
I have done some searching on this website as I am not the only person who wants this. If I remember correctly, Rofco is the only name came up for this purpose.
Rofco is the primary name, do a search on Chandley and you should find a few posts on that.
When I say a good bake element, as you found with the Combi, the main heat source is a convection element, which is located near a fan that circulates warm air, and in our case, tends to dry out the loaf prematurely. Many electric ovens are convection only, others have a fan and convection, but also have a separate electric element either at the bottom of the oven, or below the bottom - also referred to as a hidden element. If you have a bottom element that can generate heat without a fan, plus a stone, and the oven seals well, then you have something similar to a Rofco. I have not seen this oven in person, but if you look at the phot with the door open, you can see it has a lower element https://www.ebay.com/itm/124899428460?hash=item1d1496086c%3Ag%3AwNQAAOSwTo1cxgiu&nma=true&si=alBK4bZRMtaYckeA6PNpVMnkzmo%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Again, I haven't seen one in person, so don't know how well sealed it is, but if you can set it just to bake, without the fan, it also has a steam button - it actually just sprays water, IIRC, so if could be a cheaper substitute for a Rofco once you add a stone or two.
As to the Forneau, while it is called an oven, I assume you understood that it is not an oven, it is just a variation of a dutch oven, the benefit over a dutch oven is that it is easier to load and retrieve a loaf, and since the main cast iron piece stays in the oven the whole time, in theory you can bake one loaf after another in quick succession. If you bought 2 forneau ovens, you could have up to 4 loafs baking at a time - 2 in the Forneau with the door closed in the steam part of the bake, and 2 on another shelf in the oven during the 2nd half of the bake.
I really appreciate your explanation, Barry. I will keep that in mind when I search for my next bread baking oven. Yes, I do understand that Forneau works like a Dutch oven. Very pretty. My mother in law bought me a Emile Henry Cloche for Christmas. I just don't have the heart to tell her that I'll like won't be using it...Sliding dough on pizza stone is so much more fun!