Really sticky dough, wont come out of proving basket
Hi,
Newbie here whose been baking for about 5 weeks.
I've grown my own sourdough starter and its working really really well, to be honest better results than commercial yeast ever gave me and I get doubling of the size of the dough on rising, however, my dough is so very sticky and despite using tons of semolina (total disaster) and flour (slightly more successful) the damn thing clings to the proving basket. I'm left with a really messy top and up to 1/8 of the dough stuck to the basket. It also wont hold its shape when I lay it on a tray or stone, it spreads a lot. I'm guessing too wet but all the advise I read is that sourdough should be wet. The bread it produces however has a lovely open crumb.
I usually prove for about 12 hours with minimal kneading. I autolyse for about 30 mins, add salt, fold the dough in on itself, let it rise for about 8-12 hours (overnight), fold it in again, transfer to proving basket/loaf tin and let it rise again before baking.
My recipe is:
200g starter (which I feed 1:1 flour:water)
325g water
500g flour (either 100% white, or mix with brown and occasionally a little <100g rye)
1.5 tsp salt
I can make great open crumb loaves in loaf tins but I really want to have a lovely crusty loaf that has an open crumb and at least some volume. Advise please fellow bakers.
Your dough is about 71% hydration which is slightly on the high side, it could take a little more flour. Try 68% hydration.
Are you dusting the proofing basket? Rice flour is good for this.
Are you building tension in the skin of the loaf as you shape it?
Happy baking!
Ford
Thank you for the advice Ford,
I will try reducing the hydration. I weigh all my ingredients so I'll amend my recipe with 290g water to give 68% hydration. (Apologies for the units, I'm in the UK and have been brought up on the metric system).
I've tried dusting the proving basket with semolina and also wheat flour, but I will definitely be trying rice flour.
Shaping is a skill I am still mastering, with my wet dough I have found this technique a bit tricky as its so sticky and sticks to both my hands and the dough scraper so the answer is no I haven't been building up much tension when shaping, but hope to improve this.
I shape on an oiled side board, should I be doing it on a floured surface instead (I also oil the bowl for the initial rise).
Thanks again
John
"Shaping is a skill I am still mastering, with my wet dough I have found this technique a bit tricky as its so sticky and sticks to both my hands and the dough scraper so the answer is no I haven't been building up much tension when shaping, but hope to improve this."
It is difficult to shape doughs with high hydration. Some do it with wet hands and others, I am one, like to sprinkle the dough lightly with flour and work with dry hands. There is no wrong way to do this. Whatever way works is right!
We all recognize the metric system of weights and measures. Since I am a scientist by training I am quite familiar with it.
Ford
Thanks again Ford,
Planning on a bake this weekend. I'm going to try lightly flouring my hands with a less hydrated dough and practice my shaping technique.
It makes lousy bread but is the best thing for sticky wet dough - nothing sticks to it. You have learned your first of many must know bread tips on TFL :-)
I had the same issue, but the same "brown rice flour" advice from Ford and dabrownman set me straight too. Use it to dust your proofing basket, and it completely solves your problem.
PS - Thanks guys! ;-)
I agree, brown rice flour is the thing for dusting bannetons for sure. Also, reduce the hydration a bit (wetter dough isn't always better, and is much more difficult when you are just starting out). Finally, do a bit more stretching and folding in the first couple hours of the bulk proof. It helps develop the gluten. Then shape it a bit more tightly before putting it into the bannetons for final proof.
Thanks, I'm planning on reducing the hydration and using rice flour. I must admit my first few loaves I did stretch and fold maybe every couple of hours and this probably did improve the the dough. I have been a bit lazy and started my proving overnight, but I will try to get a few more folds in maybe on the weekend.
I mix my rice flour 50/50 with whole wheat. Can't remember where I read to do that but it works great.
I use quite a heavy coat of it in the banneton. After the bread comes out of the banneton and onto parchment I brush the excess off with a silicone basting brush. Brushing it still leaves enough on to give me those pretty white banneton markings.
wow, thanks for all responding so quickly! Brown rice flour is in the shopping list and I'll reduce the hydration a bit and feed back the results.
You can make sourdough with any hydration you like. Most of my loaves are around the 63% mark. You're just making one particular style of loaf - there are 1000's more.
-Gordon
Just to add one more advice: When handling wet dough, develop the habit of touching it (for example in folding or in shaping) for as short a time as possible to minimize dough sticking to your hands. Make quick moves.
David
Also, you mention shaping on an oiled surface. Try shaping on a wood surface that's maybe dusted with flour. I had shaping problems early on a couple years ago, having tried both oiled and floured on my countertop (some sort of plastic or ceramic? I dunno, it's red). David suggested the wood to me - you need the friction to create the skin. I found very light dusting of the surface helpful as well, sometimes more, sometimes none. You eventually learn the feel for what works.
When I have a really high hydration, I just use parchment paper. I stuff it into my proofing basket, toss my dough on top, this way, the top of the dough stays the top, as I lift the dough out with the parchment and place the entire bit into my dutch oven for baking. Allows you to be really gentle and allows you to use any shape of container as your proofer.
Yes I know it isn't a purist thing, but works great and the parchment paper protects the bottom of the loaf a bit.