March 17, 2007 - 2:03pm
NYT No Knead Bread, Rye
Rye NYT Bread: I made this rye today in my oval 4 1/2 qt. Le Creuset (Shown in backround). I used KA Rye Blend Flour which is made up of Organic Whole Rye, White Rye, AP flour, Malted Barley flour. I used 2 cups of the blend and 1 3/4 cup AP flour. I added a couple of TBLS. Vital Wheat Gluten.
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For some reason the whole description is not showing up under my picture. It should continue to say 2 Tablespoons Vital Wheat Gluten. I used the NYT technique letting the dough sit out for 18 hours, baked in my heated Le Creuset. weavershouse
I've been meaning to give this a try. I seem to be stuck on sourdough, Anadama and Struan...The other problem is that my Le Creuset dutch oven is too large..I need to get a smaller cast iron pot to give it a whirl.
Thank you. I won't cut into it until tomorrow and I'm looking forward to trying it. I think the Vital Wheat Gluten gave me the very good rise.
Funny you should say you wanted to give rye a try. I've been thinking I want to try an Anadama or Struan. I made Struan from the Brother Juniper book a number of years ago and it was ok but it seems there is a newer version.
I didn't know if my Le Creuset would be big enough for the rye but it was just right. The NYT bread making makes such good bread that I don't know why anyone would think it's just for beginners. Good bread is good bread. Thanks again. weavershouse
I think i am one of maybe 5 people on this site that has not tried this method yet.
I believe that the crust is meant to come out amazing with this method. There is a LOT of info here on this site. If you look around you will find it. I started a thread last week asking questions about it - it is otherwise known as the NYT (New York Times) No-Knead Bread. You should find a lot of info here about it... http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2527/no-knead-bread
I am planning to try soon, I too think my Dutch oven is too big and I will have to get a smaller one, that is one thing that is delaying me.
AnnieT This may be redundant - but here goes anyway. I have been baking the NKB for a while and have a couple of hints. I put the shaped ball on a square of parchment paper and drop it into my banneton, trying to flatten any big creases in the parchment. Then all I have to do is pick up the edges of the parchment and gently lower the whole deal into my heated pot. That way the dough doesn't deflate like it did when I dropped it in from a great height to avoid burning my fingers. I have gone back to using my stainless Dutch oven - bought a Lodge preseasoned one and ended up with scorched bottom crusts. Tonight I started a half recipe and will bake it in my terracotta flower pot - the parchment will save me from forgetting to cover the hole! I use a casserole lid to cover the pot. So many breads, so little time!
I think Susan suggested using parchment under the dough too but after I read your post I decided to give it a try today and it worked great. I used a 4 1/2 qt oval Le Creuset and a long clay baker. Like I said in another post, after I would dump my dough into the hot pot I felt like I needed to go lay down in a darkened room for a while to recover. With the parchment it was a breeze. Thanks to you and Susan for a great idea. weavershouse
is the same as a Le Creuset cast iron casserole, or La Chasseur, or just plain black cast iron casseroles- which every other home here in the UK seems to have! I've presently got four in different sizes. It is just the term "Dutch Oven" which is unfamiliar here in Britain.They make excellent loaves - you heat them in the oven to full oven heat, then put your raised and shaped dough in the hot casserole, replace the lid and cook for about 25 minutes, remove the lid and bake for a further 15 - 20 minutes. And that is it. Gives an excellent crust and rise.The method was in the New York Times, with a no-knead method of making dough which there must be a thread to here somewhere. I should think almost everyone on this site has tried this by now!I love the results - but then tried baking in an unheated oven and found the results are really just as good, but with massive savings in fuel useage, so I've taken to using that method - for the summer, at least! May be putting one or two cast iron casseroles up for sale on eBay!!
Andrew
Andrew, what is the cooking time/temperature when you do a cool start for the NKD?
I have done the pre-heated route.
Old Camp Cook
(Oklahoma)
Uses a different approach here, because it doesn't use a dutch oven at all. It is either free form (shaped and proofed in a banneton) or in a tin. And it goes into a cold oven, which is then turned to full heat and left to get hot. When it reaches full heat, personally I turn it down to about 190° C and leave it until the loaf sounds hollow when tapped adn looks well baked - it is usually around 45 - 50 minutes total (about the same time as in a preheated oven strangely enough) but will obviously vary depending on the size of the loaf you are baking. Others may well want to chip in here with their own variations....
Andrew
Please tell how you bake the NK recipe without a dutch oven. Do you use a different recipe than the NYT one? Thanks.
Susan
Susan, it may be a terminology thing - some people might see the essence of the NYT method being the hot dutch oven, some might see it as the recipe - I read it as being the no knead method with high hydration.I am always drawn to experiment with the new techniques which I see on this and other sites - I ought to keep notes but am not organised enough! But eventually I end up changing my procedures as a result and will end up with just one favourite method, I am sure - "stuck in a rut"! But at the minute, still doing lots of different things. Almost always sourdough starter though...and generally with wholemeal flour of some proportion or other.I love the NYT no knead simplicity - so I follow that system (measuring in weights rather than volume, aiming for 68% - 72% hydration) either if I'm baking in a hot Le Creuset (I've really stopped doing that at the minute, even though I loved the results) or when using a tin and baking the loaf in an unheated oven. After reaching the folding stage, I place the dough in a tin to rise, before baking in a cold oven. I've got a lovely oval tin with sides which open allowing the bottom to drop out for easy bread removal, which is German and I got from eBay. It makes super loaves using no knead and a cold oven. I give the risen loaf one big deep slash (I use a serrated bread knife now - given up on the razor / lame) and get spectacular oven spring! The last few bakes I haven't misted the oven or the loaf, and the crust has been great.And for the formed loaves, raised in a couche, I use Dan Lepards method - gentle kneads for ten seconds at ten minute intervals for about an hour, then fold each hour for three hours (i.e. three folds), shape and rise in a couche, slash and bake from cold.So many methods! And I think I like the cold oven bake in the summer - I might go back to the NYT complete with Le Creuset in the winter, but I'm beginning to doubt it. I like the feeling that I'm saving fuel and still getting results I like.Read a recipe in a magazine which used a yeasted dough as a pastry liner for a quiche - has anyone tried this yet? I like the idea of trying this as a soudough quiche....
Andrew
Susan,
re-reading my reply - I realize it doesn't answer your question at all really! The basic answer is yes, the NYT recipe but weighed rather than measured, and raised in a tin after the folding. Put in cold oven and bake - voila!
Sorry about the rambling reply above - please ignore!!
Andrew
Would you describe the flour(s) you are using? I am finding a huge difference in flours with different protein contents and have not yet settled on the ideal for me. We're all trying to learn from each other regarding recipe, time, temperature and technique, but then there's the variable of flour. I have been amending hi-gluten flour with all-purpose, and adding some wholemeal as well. My focus is sourdough, too; I like the challenge of bending it to my will, so to speak.
With the higher hydration loaves, there should be more than enough moisture to get a spectacular rise. But still, I get more rise when I bake under my Pyrex bowl. And the crust is what I want, dark, thin and crispy, when baked at 450F. When I lower the temperature even 20 degrees, the crust is thicker and more dull. Each of our ovens is different also, aside from being gas or electric. I, for one, had no idea that baking my ideal loaf of sourdough would be so involved!!!
Your breakaway tin sounds similar to what I know as a springform pan. I have a couple of larger round ones that I could try. Do you use parchment inside the tin to keep the dough from adhering to the metal, or spray the bottom and sides of the tin with oil?
Thanks for your thoughts, don't ever be concerned, as you never know what gem will be found in someone's rambling.
Susan
I use are Doves Farm white organic bread flour, and the wholemeal I mill as and when I need it from organic Paragon wheat which I buy from a local organic farmer. But these are UK supplies - I don't know where you are or if they are available for you?
Springform pan is much the same thing - mine is non-stick (I know, probably leaching chemicals into my organic bread!!) so I don't use parchment paper. I just rub it around with a bit of extra virgin olive oil, which also helps the dough not to stick to my hands! I've started rolling the dough in quite a lot of white bread flour after shaping it, and not spraying with water - I find the crust on the smaller loaves comes out crisper and thinner than on the larger loaves - but then, I also enjoy the chewier thicker crusts! And I certainly find that the small gas oven produces a thinner, crisper crust on the no preheat bakes than my bigger electric oven - either the fan oven or the conventional one. Can't think why? But I am definitely getting a much morer impressive rise with the cold oven bake than either preheated on a stone, or preheated in a casserole. It has completely overturned my long - cherished beliefs in the need for preheating, using a stone, throwing water in a tin on the oven floor and spraying - SOOOO simple!!
Andrew
It just so happens that I have a 72% NK dough ready to fold in about an hour. I located my springform pans, and will give your method a try and report back. My oven is relatively small--a 27" Miele electric, so we'll see how that does. Smaller loaves bake up nicer for me, too, and are a better fit for just the two of us.
Susan
Later: Well, my bad, as the kids say. Company came, and I way overproofed the dough. It's on my list to try another day. Thanks again!
Susan, I overproofed a loaf badly once recently - yes - company came!!! I just folded it again, placed it back in the tin and waited - it rose up beautifully and baked out fine. I don't know if this was a lucky fluke or if it would work every time - but worth a try??
Andrew
to reshape it and let it rise again than to bake an over-proofed loaf. :)
If it has proofed a really long time, like a day or so, then better to treat it like a poolish and mix in more liquids and flour and give the yeasties some food and then split the dough into more loaves.
One of my favorite forms is a frying pan with the handle removed. --Mini Oven
The NEXT TIME I goof up and over-proof a loaf I will heed your advice and let it rise again. Right now the birds are having a great Sunday-morning breakfast. And I have more dough a-rising!
Susan
My solution to the trick of getting the dough into my Le Creuset is to take the hot Le Creuset from the oven, take the lid off, pick up the dough with my hand under it (and the cloth it proofed on or the bannelton it proofed in) and then .... here is the trick, hold the Le Creust at a 90 degree angle so you are only, and gently, tipping the dough into the Le Creuset. As the dough begins to go into the pan, start to lower it back down to horizontal. Works for me. By the way ... do use a good pot holder to hold the pan while you are tipping it.
Paul Kobulnicky
Baking in Ohio
Andrew, how did you hear of the No-Knead bread? It is amazing how this loaf is now known all over the world. I sent the recipe to my daughter who lives in Northamptonshire and she made it in her Aga. It is so easy that any one can do it. Thanks for the idea of using parchment. Ruth Redburn
in this method meant that it appeared on this site, an Australian site and a site I use a lot in the UK almost at the same time, so since all three were advocating it, it had to be tried!!!! And I became a devotee for several weeks - until the cold oven method was discussed here, which I tried and loved. Obviously, with an Aga and a constantly hot oven, your daughter will want to stick to a preheated oven.... How I would love an Aga!
Andrew