Not so good start at making bread machine recipe in stand mixer
I was quite surprised to see that my profile was still on this site when I've been away for probably more than 10 years. I kind of knew what I was doing back then, but I've been away from bread baking--except for a few years with no-knead bread and then some time making bread in my Bosch Compact mixer.
I purchased a bread machine (budget end) recently but seemed to have gotten a lemon: it filled the house with a metallic odor that still, 2 weeks later, is not completely gone. I've been trying to air it out on our patio, trying many different things, but it's not smelling any better. Amazon told me to toss or give away.
So before I try purchasing another bread machine, I thought I'd try making bread in my little Bosch again. Unfortunately, I didn't seem to have kept any decent notes on recipes, so I'm basically having to start all over again. I purchased used a bread machine cookbook--in anticipation of my bread machine actually working, and so thought I'd use one of those recipes to start:
Whole Wheat Bread (Better Homes & Gardens Best Bread Machine Recipes) adding grams as I figured out this morning:
1 cup milk (227g)
3 T water (44g)
4 tsp honey (28g)
1 T butter (14g)
1.5 cups whole wheat flour (144g)
1.5 cups bread flour (180g)
3/4 tsp salt (5g)
1 tsp active dry yeast (3g) I used SAF instant
Since this is a bread machine cookbook, I had no instructions to go by for using a mixer. I got the milk, water, honey, and butter in the plastic mixing bowl and nuked until around 96 degrees or so, then I added the rest. Mixed on low until combined and then let mix at medium speed for 5 min. But the dough wasn't coming together at all and I ended up adding nearly 3T of bread flour before it came together better. I gave up on making it form a ball so covered and then put in the oven with the light on. (I had turned it on to 250 and then turned off about 30 minutes prior.)
Nearly an hour into it, I realized that I never oiled the bowl. So then (forehead slap) I dumped it out on a cutting board to oil the bowl. But I decided to use a new glass bowl which I oiled. Guess what? Hard to get the dough off the cutting board! Doh! (Dough?!) So I finally scraped it off, got in the oiled bowl and have it back in the oven. BUT this is definitely not a ball and is more like the no-knead dough consistency.
I'm just wondering what I should have done and what I do from here. Let's say it rises (as it seems it is doing all right), do I just form and put in a loaf pan to rise again?
Had I better just buy a new bread machine?
Yes, put into a loaf pan. Let it rise and bake in the pan. It should come out fine. If you have a probe-style thermometer, check the interior temperature and make sure it's up to something like 205 deg F/96C or higher before ending the bake.
I think I just made matters worse. I had to go out for 2 hours and came home to a bowl full of dough. This is only supposed to make one loaf but it now looks like it would make 2-3. Where do I go from here? Just plop it out on a floured surface and see if it will deflate to one loaf's worth of dough?
Edit: found this from KAF: https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/blog/2018/02/21/over-proofed-dough
But I don't know if I should put into a loaf pan for only 20 minutes when I never even got it into a pan yet.
EDIT AGAIN: I was quite surprised to find the dough deflate and actually have a very nice silky feel after I gave it a little shaping to put in a loaf pan. And it's quite low in the pan so I think it will need more than 20 minutes to come to an inch above the pan, but I'll keep an eye on it.
Thought I had messed up, but this should work. However, I'd appreciate any advice for next time. Does the recipe look okay to you more experienced types?
Yes, it will deflate when you start working with it to shape a loaf. In fact, you should deflate it - gently - to eliminate large gas bubbles. When you shape the dough into a log, if it seems larger than half the size of the pan then the amount of dough is too large for that pan. Cut off a piece that will fit and put that into the pan. If you have another pan put the rest into it. Otherwise, put the cutoff piece into the refrigerator - covered to keep it from drying out - and after the first loaf has baked, or when it's convenient, shape the second piece, put it into the pan, let it rise, and bake.
It actually came to less than half the pan. It's rising pretty rapidly now , so I"ll keep an eye on it.
Do you have any suggestions about my letting it mix for 5 minutes and it never coming together? Do you think I need to make changes to the recipe or just be prepared to add more flour again next time?
I appreciate your help!
I thought your dough seemed fairly wet when I read your first post. So it must have been pretty gloppy. Adding some flour helped but it wasn't very much flour. I don't use a mixer so I'm not the best person to give advice, but honey and butter always make it harder for dough to come together. I would suggest trying to combine the honey with the water first, and make sure the butter is nice and soft before adding it little by little. I think it would best be added after the dough has come together.
So reduce the amount of water, mix the honey and water, and add softened butter later. Mix until the dough stops changing how it acts in the mixer. IOW, if it starts to thicken up and climb the mixing hook and slap around, the dough will often go through cycles where it climbs and then it does something else. At some point it may change and relax and stop going through those cycles. You can certainly stop then. If it has gotten very tight and just won't let go of the hook to get smeared out by the bowl, that's probably as much as it needs.
But as I said, better to look to someone else about using the mixer!
If the mixer gets very hot, stop and let it cool down for a while.
Bread seems to have come out successfully, although maybe a little pale--but the temp was well over 190, so I figured I'd better not bake it anymore. Didn't rise much at all from the height I put it in.
But I agree that it seemed like too much water. I may only use the 1 cup of milk to start next time and add the 3T of water as necessary. I see what you are talking about adding the other items later--found a recipe that did that with a whole wheat dough. I don't think my small mixer could handle adding stuff later to a completely whole wheat dough, but I could try it for this recipe. (That's called making a sponge first?)
I have arthritis in my hands--may need surgery--so that's why I'm trying to make due with a mixer. Or give up and get a machine.
Appreciate the help. Didn't think I was going to end with a loaf of bread today!
That looks like a fine loaf! Yes, it's pale for my taste, and I would have baked to a higher internal temperature. But, you know, if the crumb isn't moist and gummy, it's baked enough for now. Remember that a dough with lots of water will take longer to bake, simply because more time is needed to drive out the water.
OTOH, wet dough that's too stretchy and sticky to hold a loaf shape without support can just be poured into a loaf pan and come out terrific, just like this one did. There's no need to be picky about getting the hydration or kneading just right.
So unlike meat or poultry, going higher than the recommended temperature will not hurt it? I thought when I was well over 190 that I was in trouble. Good to know I could have gone longer.
Think 205 deg F. although highly enriched doughs are often baked a little lower.
I didn't know whether I should start a new post or not, but let's see if you can help me. :-)
I don't particularly like bread with honey and butter in it. But I also want a wheat bread that's soft enough for my husband's daily sandwiches. There's got to be something between hard and crusty and soft highly enriched bread.
So what I'm wondering is what I can do with the recipe I've posted? Can I leave out the butter and honey with no consequences? Halve the amounts of honey and butter? Should I just use 1 cup water instead of 1 cup milk? (I used almond milk because of lactose intolerance.)
I'm also trying to avoid having to buy vital wheat gluten which so many recipes call for. No one sells it near me, and I'd have to order it online. Also trying to avoid using buttermilk and powdered milk.
Appreciate your help!
Maybe incorporating the tanzhong technique in the recipe might help:
https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/blog/tag/tangzhong
https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/blog/2018/03/26/tangzhong
I have used this technique a few times and it does improve the crumb.
txfarmer posted about her 100% whole wheat bread (which includes a rolled oats soaker) and the methods she uses to achieve a very soft, shreddable sandwich loaf. The key is extensive mixing at speeds 3 or 4 in a KitchenAid mixer for 15-20 minutes.
You'll note that her recipe does include some honey (which could be left out) and some oil. If you choose to try it, I'd suggest making a batch with the oil and a second batch without the oil to judge which one better fits your preferences.
Paul
mixed in a bread machine:
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/71297/20221020-simple-100-wholewheat-bread-clas
Some of the techniques shared in the post might be helpful.
Yippee
If you appreciate the easiness of baking with a machine, as I do, then consider buying second hand. Almost unlimited options. The one I found had never been used before, stickers still on. It has produced increasingly tasty bread since. Only caution to observe is to test it before buying. Or agree on a return policy.
Our local FB Marketplace has tons of bread machines for sale, but who's going to let me test it before buying? Or do you just mean, plug it in and make sure it's not dead?
I don't know if it's still available, but someone had Zo for $50. It's like 20 years old, but I'm sure that's nothing for them. We have a Zo rice maker that's been going strong for more than that.
I think it's interesting that the ones who sound legit, like this is really their machine and they're not reselling something they know nothing about, almost always say "it works fine, but I learned to make bread without a machine."
>who's going to let me test it before buying
Considering the nature of machines for sale I would be surprised if they don’t allow you to try them first. I mean plug in and switch it on to check if it is spinning and such. Better if a return policy is in place and you can properly test it at home.
With second hand there’s always more room for surprises. But also afford you to considerably expand options within a very reasonable budget. Last but not least I always consider unused items an opportunity.
$50 for a second hand machine is quite high. With that price definitely they should let you try it at home.
Another possibility is a restaurant supply store, if there's one withing striking distance. Many of the ones I've known sell used equipment and sometimes there are mixers. A big commercial one would still be expensive and way overkill, but sometimes I've seen commercial grade stand mixers that would probably be more than suitable.
Be careful buying an older Zo. Check every function carefully. Except for replacing the pan and paddles, they were built in such a way that makes them unrepairable by the end user. You have to send them back to Zo for service. Even for something as simple as replacing the drive belt.
Unless you need the versatility of the Zo (custom programs), the older Panasonics are the way to go. Quality of build is better. They mix, knead, and bake better. And are repairable by you if needed.
Sorry I just have to. I've owned a machine (if you could call it that) and never used it. A cup, a bowl and a scraper is all ya need. Add something to take out the starter and you're good to go.
It is interesting though - being born with the ability I can take care of things myself. The idea of a machine is great - but I don't make bread like that - I'm used to the old way! Now if you can program the things ..... Enjoy!
If you have somewhere to plug the machine in outside, you could run it through a bake cycle to see if that gets rid of the smell.
Mine required one baking cycle with no pan to burn off any left over manufacturing oil. Your metallic smell may come from that.
I've been using a Bosch Compact mixer for about 3 years. It's the only stand mixer I have experience with, having hand-kneaded dough years before that. I find that the times for kneading that I are in recipes usually need to be much longer with the Bosch. I don't know if it's the shape of the dough hook or some other factor, but I often mix for a long time (sometimes 20 min) until the dough is where I want it (windowpane on whole wheat dough). This isn't to say that the Bosch is deficient, just different.
I love the Bosch Compact because of its small size and light weight. I hope mine never dies because Bosch is no longer selling them in the US.
I have made 2 loaves of this 50% whole wheat bread in the Bosch Compact for years. You could also make it 100% whole wheat. I just prefer the taste of 50%.
Ingredients
Instructions:
Looking at your recipe, I'm wondering why 900g of flour only makes 2 loaves. The recipes I've got using only about half that for 2 loaves.
Most off my loaves are around 420-460 gram of flour. Converted to volume, that's in the 3 cup range.
I have had the machine for 3 weeks and have tried every time I could find online. I won't list them all, but trust me, I've done many bake cycles and even made 3 loaves of bread. I've had it outside on our patio for over a week and baked the last loaf out there. The smell is quite a bit less, but it's still there and I could taste it in the last loaf.
I don't want to waste any more ingredients. Since Amazon refunded the money, I'm going to donate--with a note on the box to warn people of the problem--and wait for Christmas sales for a new one. Unless I re-learn how to bake bread in my mixer by then.
To the person who said all you need is a cup and a bowl: I have advanced arthritis in my hands and appreciate any help I can get with machines.
It's an important detail, and you haven't told us. Make and model.
Hamilton Beach 29987, but why is it important? I assume I got a lemon since Amazon gave in so quickly on not only giving me a refund but letting me keep it to dispose of myself. It had been returned at least once before; the previous owner(s) may have had the same complaint.
Assuming the smell comes when it is in bake mode, you could keep it and use it in Dough mode to mix, knead, and ferment. Then proof in your pan, and bake in your oven.
Just having a look at reviews/questions on amazon and others have reported it too.
One person offered a possible cause and solution. Worth a try...
Please, everyone, believe me I have done all I can do about the machine. I have done all you have suggested and much, much more. I don't like writing more than is necessary and I didn't think I would have to prove the point so that there's no shadow of a doubt in anyone's mind.
The machine is being donated with a cautionary note on it.