Researching Yeast Water
I have no intention of giving up my SD starter, I like the flavor too much. But not every loaf needs to be SD, and I am wanting to learn some new methods that don't include commercial yeast. So with that in mind, I'm researching yeast water.
So far I have read posts (including comments and advice/experiences) from teketeke, Dabrowman, multiple posts/comments from Trailrunner, the Community Bake with yeast water, and several others including this one and this one. Overall, I *think* I'm good to go to get started. I have non-chlorinated spring water, organic raisins, and an organic apple at the ready, an orange so I can add 1 Tbsp of juice to the first mix. The last hurdle is making sure I have a good place to keep things at 75-80F for a few days.
The "turn on the oven light" trick warms things up a bit too much. After several hours, the temp is 90-92F. I'm trying to see what happens when I keep the oven door cracked a bit. Once I get that data, I'll mix things up and get started.
Any nuances on creating/using YW is much appreciated! Example: A few comments mentioned using a yeast water starter that is kept in the fridge. So.... what does that look like? Mix flour and YW alone (no other water?) and ferment/store? Best refreshment time frames on that one?
Any advice is much appreciated!!!
Mary
1/4 raisins
3/4 water
Once a day take off lid, replace, tighten and shake. Then loosen the lid.
This will help prevent mould.
When the raisins are all floating it is ready.
Some use the yeast water straight in the dough and others do a preferment.
It is kept in the fridge as yeast water. If you convert it to flour and yeast water it'll eventually turn into a sourdough starter.
Good to use within a week or two but if longer do a refreshment. Replace all the raisins and water. Use one tablespoon of the yeast water to inoculate. Within 12-24 hours it'll be ready to use again.
Recommended recipe is Hamelman's Swiss Farmhouse Bread. Toast the walnuts for more flavour.
Thanks Abe! Helpful info, and that bread sounds tasty.
Abe’s way didn’t work for me so here’s my take. You could do both see what works for you.
Use Granny Smith apples. Always goes faster to fizzy and keeps way longer in the fridge. 1/2 GS Apple diced and a pint or so of filtered water. Keep warm not too warm will form alcohol . Keep cover on loosely never tight . Don’t want alcohol formation this is an aerobic process. Stir once a day only to aerate. As soon as you can see a few bubbles still smells sweet and can hear a gentle “ hsss” it’s ready.
To test add 50 g YW to 50g flour and place in warm place watch for usual growth bubbling starter. If it does within the usual starter growth time. You are good to go. Can refrigerate with a nice piece of fresh orange peel laid over the diced floating apples to keep them submerged. Your YW will stay fresh a LOT longer with the orange peel trick. It willl also stay fresher lots longer with Granny Smith apples.
As soon as your apples sink gently remove with slotted spoon add to compost and pour off clear YW start again with fresh water and diced apples. I usually use 100 g YW in a 1000g flour loaf. The white gunk in the bottom is dead yeast contributes nothin to the YW.
I often use a SD levain and a YW levain in a formula . Sometimes a YW as is and a SD levain sometimes all three. Have fun. Don’t need OJ in the initial production as the Granny Smith have a perfect acidity. Good luck!
Thank you Caroline, for the really helpful info. Especially to avoid alcohol production. I was wondering about the apple variety as well, many are so sweet. I'll pick up a granny smith today.
Your breads always sound so inviting and wholesome! I enjoy tinkering with fresh milled combinations as well, but haven't tried your "holy Trinity" yet. When you use YW (mixed levain or alone), do you do a cold retard or same day bake most often? Just curious if the overall timeline is the same as a SD bake.
Thanks so much!
Mary
Yes I was on a baking forum for awhile in the past when I was just starting to investigate YW. I was very disturbed by the oneupmanship on their forum, folks trying to get the MOST amazing exploding YW !!! They had no idea what they were doing and that was all they were interested in showing LOL.
The acidity of the GS apple works beautifully and the YW stays fresh a lot longer with it. The large piece of orange peel laid across the top keeps the apple pieces submerged which prevents the apple from turning brown.
A NEW tip that I discovered from a link I found here on TFL on a different subject said that adding a tiny amount of Fruit Fresh to the YW also really prevents deterioration and it's all natural. I am going to pick up a container and definitely give it a try . It contains Vit C which has appeared in conversations here on TFL as a good additive to bread dough. I haven't tried it myself but I am always open to new ideas.
I always do a cold retard of my shaped breads. I don't measure their % of fermentation and just bake the next day at my convenience. So far after decades that still works for me :) I almost never retard the bulk ferment. I like the way the cold shaped bread holds up when transferred to the Granite Ware roaster I used for almost all my bakes and the way the cold dough is easier to score if I do score...a lot of times I let it open naturally.
Overall I am all about the easiest and tastiest route to baking bread. I started baking bread in the early 1970's with the individual packets of Fleishman's yeast. I still have the empty packets with their recipes !!
Have fun and please do post back. Thank you again . Caroline
Interesting about the Fresh Fruit. I have never done anything with that.
And agreed about keeping bread making easy and tasty. I have only been baking a few years (covid baker here 🙋🏼♀️), so my baking experience is limited.... But functional and good tasting! That's impressive you a) still have those yeast packets, and b) seem to know where you have them.
Mary
The double build for YW, like you see in our community bake recipe is quite important.
Unlike sourdough leavin which you know is ready by noting how much it has risen in the jar you can't do similar to judge the readiness of your yeast water because it is just a jar of fizzy water.
So, doing a first build and waiting for it to be ready and then doing a second build from that ensures you have some kind of dependability, otherwise you could be waiting 20 hours for your final loaf to rise!
-Jon
While i've heard of people just swapping some of the water for YW I much prefer doing a preferment first. While the yeast water activates the yeast from being dormant I like to think of the preferment as strengthening further before using in the final dough. Sometimes the preferment takes time with the first build and is quicker with the second build. And other times it is quick from the start. At least one has an idea with what they're dealing with by fermenting a bit of flour and yeast water first.
Yeast is everywhere and can be grown so easily from almost anything. I have a SD starter I named grape because it was originally made from a grape/water yeast with grapes from my daughter's yard. Converted to SD after a few bakes and still going strong after 10 yrs!
There was a TFL member (years ago) who was a real expert on this topic. I thought he lived in Hong Kong(??) or was it Japan? Your link to RonRay might be him. HERE is a link to a "how to" he wrote.
If your microwave has an incandescent bulb, I have found the microwave with the door unlatched is a perfect environment. The next recommendation is the top of the refrigerator-the heat rises from the coils. A goose-neck lamp with an incandescent bulb is a great gentle, heating lamp.
If you like making yeast water from fruit, you should look into kvass. A light refreshing drink made from stale bread cubes and fruit. Fermented and bubbly and delicious.
Have delicious fun!
It does have an incandescent bulb. I leave the door ajar and if I have something larger fermenting that won't fit I leave the door ajar and set the container on top of the MW...works great. For my homemade yogurt and also my dough in cold weather I I use a $15 heating pad from Walmart and a small softsided cooler !! Boy does it work and holds my jars of yogurt perfectly and also my large plastic buckets of dough. The heating pad is soft and can be gently placed around the items and has a low-med-high setting . I find medium is perfect.
Good Luck !! c
Face palm . . . Thank you! I don't know why I didn't think of trying the microwave. I used to do that in winter for proofing bread at our last house, which ran cooler than here. I just did a ~ 3 hour test with the door cracked open and voila: 76F.
Onward!
With fruit yeast water. Bottle of grape juice. Pour out a cup and drink. Add a 3/4 of a cup of sugar and some fruit yeast water and shake till dissolved. Make sure there's some head room for bubbles. Loosen cap and ferment until it stops bubbling and settles. About a month. Drink.
Cheers 🍸
You know, this is totally new territory for me, but it seems so simple that I really think I should just go for it.
You should definitely try yeast water. Every bit as fascinating as sourdough. All it is is putting fruit, be it fresh or dried, into water and allowing the yeasts on the fruit to "come alive" and begin fermenting naturally. Once it's bubbling it's ready. Use organic fruit and keep warm. Should be ready within a few days.
Chuckling.... Adding this to the list of things I have learned about on TFL, along with bread (of course) the nuances of yogurt making and several other things. Cheers indeed!
Specialised Wine Yeast has been bred to that it can produce more alcohol. Bread Yeast and Wild Yeast is not as predictable. Try it once and if it is too sweet then next time simple cut back on the sugar till you get a balance you like and vice versa.
https://youtu.be/c8sVCfGTTjA?si=siKHysnx54_L6nW-
It's very simple. Don't need any special equipment. It's made in the grape juice bottle itself (can be done with any juice just don't use anything with added 'ites or 'ates).
Another one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXmrBmAEcvg