June 7, 2022 - 8:49am
Progress after 2 weeks
This is 66% my Calida wheat flour protein 1478 (Wheat Califa Eco Fine flour),
and the rest AP. . It gets a little caught (not burnt but on its way) when I do 230C for 30 mins with tin foil hat, followed by 310C for 20 mins. I'm using a fan assist so next I'll try 220C - 200C.
Tastes delicious which I guess is the main thing. After a day it makes great toast. But still some crumb issues. But lots of input from the folks here to get this far. Gracias
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Poolish 10% Rye, 90 AP. Dough 100%AP. Wasn't sure if best to add the Rye to the poolish or the dough.
in the recipe to worry about it.
Some like to add fats to moisten the crumb. A shredded carrot or small cooked potato can also add softmess and moisture to the crumb if needed.
Thanks Mini. Not really a recipe, just me trying flours and percentages.. Next one I was going to double it, but I'll jump to 30% based on your comment. If you have any thoughts on whether adding the rye to the poolish or the dough impacts flavour most, I'd love to hear.
On my other more artisan approach I'm using olive oil and honey. But the big problem I have is that all my bread vanishes so quick I never get to properly compare.
"By using a portion of wholemeal rye flour, we add a great deal of flavour. Even more so because the rye flour is pre-fermented". So I guess that answers one of my questions that's been bugging me lol
Great progress to-date.
You can definitely add the rye to the poolish. It will help hydrate the flour and may even bring a little more acidity to the dough because of the organism activity generally found in rye.
I’m not sure how much flour was in your poolish, but assuming a typical 20-30%, that would put the rye content of your bread above at 2-3%. Are you looking to go up to 30% rye in your poolish or in you final bread? 3% to 30% in the final bread is a huge jump and will greatly change how the dough handles.
Happy baking!
Heihei29er's sorry probably confused that a bit. My base recipe uses 250g AP in the poolish, 250g AP in the dough. I simply replaced 50g of AP in the poolish with wholemeal rye flour. Thus my 10% of total.
But just now I baked a Rye bread. The pre ferment had 60g of Rye. The dough 400g of strong wheat. So about 12% rye. I was surprised it was so little. But the result is without doubt a rye bread.
So I think I'll try 20% in my standard recipe and see if I can get nearer to the crumb of my base bread and still have the rye taste. I'm a little disappointed with the crumb of this (see photo).
All whole grain bread, even just wheat, benefits a lot from some acidity. Sourdough works well, but even adding some sour milk product (e.g. yogurt) would help with the crumb I think.
You offer a difficult question for me. My wife is vegan, so the milk/yoghurt thing creates a problem. So many vegan substitutions just don't work. On sourdough I avoided it, seeing how easy and convenient the biga/poolish route.
I'll try a few more times and if it still leaves me wanting I might have to bite the sourdough bullet. Tx
I see! If you want to venture more into whole grains, I would recommend sourdough then, but you could try to use other acidic ingredients in the meantime, and see how you like it. Ideally some fermented products (sauerkraut juice? pickle brine?), since the microbes might have a chance to also ferment the in the dough a little, but anything acidic should help to some extent I suppose.
The crust looks rather pale to me.
I was going to mention that as well Mini.
Nigele, Can you give us more detail on your method for your bread? How long in bulk? How long in final proof? What are you looking for to determine it’s time to end bulk fermentation and final proof? What temps do you bake at and for how long?
Tx for your interest folks. First: Preferment: 60g whole rye, 50g water, pinch of baker’s yeast. Left it for 14 hours in total. Grew a little, formed bubbles, looked and smelt good.
Dough: 400g Wheat AP, 6g caraway seeds, 9g salt, 6 g baker’s yeast, 250g water. Mixed into dough and kneaded 3 mins. Integrated preferment. Kneaded. Nice well mixed sticky ball. One hour - a fold - one hour. More than doubled. . Placed in loaf tin. Good rise. Brushed water on top and added a few extra decoration caraway seeds. Baked 35 mins at 180C fan assist. Another rise. Then removed from tin and gave another 5 mins. Internal temp 93C after removal from oven.
Should say it is all gone and no one but me is not happy. Tasted great. I had it last night with avocado and tomato, and this morning toasted with honey.
A few observations;
It turns out the caraway seeds where rather old and a little stale (yup dumbo should have checked).
It was 28 to 30C in my kitchen over this time. Indeed, I put the pre-ferment in the fridge for its second to fourth hours to slow it a little.
Tuesday/Wednesday I’ll give it another go with fresh caraway. I’ll also bake it at 185C. I may have miss weighed something or made a mistake with timings.
And later today I will become the proud owner of an oven thermometer so can check the temperatures. (I do have a cheap, old one but wouldn’t depend on it).
So if you could hold your skills, observations, and help for a mo, unless something urgent. I will get right back. Exciting stuff this baking. Cheers
too low. This is a wheat bread without enrichments, it should bake longer and have a higher internal temp when done. Did it sound hollow when tapping on the baked Crust? Ye ol' Thump test. (Boats, bread, and post boxs.)
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43146/perils-relying-internal-temperature
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/49935/internal-temperature-or-recipe-time#comment-367509
A 12 hr soak and chop up after draining might be fun. Gives the crumb a chocolat chip look too depending on how well you mash them up. Very fine makes a darker crumb. Canned legumes can be used right after opening. Any favorite ones?
Thanks all. Mini your temp post arrived just in time.
Here I used a poolish 75g whole Rye plus 175g AP. Lovely bubbly poolish. The dough 250 strong wheat. Total hydration 75%. Great rises throughout.
I did 20 mins at 250C with water bath, 25 mins 230C dry. With my just arrived inside oven thermometer registered 96.3C
So now I'm getting a reasonable result , and know what I want to feel at each stage: I'll look at that acidity, probably reduce the rye back to 50g, and monitor how the wealth of adjustments you've offered impact the crumb.
And in parallel get back to my rye bread. Cheers one and all.
2bouls.jpg
1boule.jpg
:)