Help troubleshooting crumb please!
For quite a while now I've been baking 2 loaves of SD bread every weekends from the same dough divided in 2 before pre-shaping (one batard and one boule), and quite consistently the boule-shaped bread ends up with a crumb that tends to be more dense towards the top of the loaf, compared to the batard one. I realise that the difference is nor very pronounced between the 2 loaves, but still, it is clear to me
My question is: is it due my shaping method or is it something else (maybe the baking vessel, aka cheap cast iron DO for the boule, Staub DO for the batard, which would have an impact on the oven spring) ??
Here is my process for 2 loaves:
1kg sifted wheat flour (equivalent T80)
78% hydration
2.2% salt
10-12% active whole spelt starter (vol double in 5h - ratio 1:1.5:1.5)
Fermentolyse for 40mn
Add salt + knead lightly
S&F after 30mn
Then 2 sets of coil folds during the next 2h
Total bulk: 5h at 26C
Pre-shaping / rest 15mn / shaping / rest 1h at RT / Fridge overnight
Baked in 2 different DO / 230C for 25mn then 220C with no lid
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Here are a few pictures of the boule:
:
The batard:
How do you slash the boule? Do you use tic-tac-toe, spiral or cross? Could you try a different one?
The batard has ideal crumb, so it probably comes down to shaping or slashing. My other thought on this is that perhaps you should keep the boule covered for longer when baking- the full oven spring may take longer for that shape than the batard. Full disclosure- I’m a batards most of the time baker. It’s just a better shape ;-)
Here is the baked loaf..I felt a bit adventurous when I scored it ;-) Usually I score in a spiral pattern, and the result is identical, same dense crumb at the top...
I also do prefer batards, maybe I should stick to it :-)
Thanks a lot for your insight, I'll try too keep it covered a bit longer next time
Looks delicious to me!
I use similar method from time to time but I either put it straight in the fridge after shaping or I left it out for 15 mins or so.
I could be wrong but perhaps it didn't need the full hour of rt proofing before retarding in the fridge? Try 30 mins next time to see if it's any different?
So would you say it's a tad over-proofed then???
I honestly am not sure!
I was guessing it's either lacking a bit of strength or tad bit overproofed. What I've noticed is some of the bubbles seemed to expand sideways instead of up, both lacking strength and over proofing can lead to that.
I read your recipe and you said you've kneaded lightly after adding the salt, I also do 1 hour fermentolyse and after which I knead and slap and fold for at least 5 mins to build strength. And if the bulk doubles it usually doesn't need a full hour of rt proofing if you were to retard it in the fridge for 12-18 hours. So it can be either or both.
Interesting...Thanks for your insight, it's really useful!
From the looks of the crumb and the color of the top and bottom crust, I think you need more heat from above.
Arghhh...I have no clue on how to achieve that... Any tips??? I always pre-heat my DO at 250C at least an hour prior to baking, so they are supposed to be as hot as can be...Any other way to get more heat from above if the top of the DO is already at the max temp??? Thanks in advance!
Gail, I’ve never had that problem, but you could try positioning the covered pot higher in the oven. This assumes you don’t have a top heating element.
Or maybe I could pre-heat my DO at a higher temp? or maybe turn the broiler on for a few mn before inserting the bread into the DO?? I'll see what I can do..Thanks a lot, Dan!!
Maybe balance it out the other way -- reduce the temp, which would make the bottom less dark, but then bake longer with the top off to finish off the top.
ok, I'll try that as well...Does this mean that this is the DO I use to bake the boule that does not retain heat as much as the one I use for the batard?? Maybe I could try a different baking vessel then...
I can't tell.
But if your boule DO is bare cast iron, and your batard DO is enameled, inside and out, the bare black cast iron absorbs more radiant heat from the lower heating element and passes the higher temperature on to the dough.
The enamel acts as an insulator. And, any color absorbs less radiant heat than black.
So "retain" isn't the operative word in the situation. A bare black DO, exposed to the lower heating element, passes/transfers a higher temp to the bottom surface of the dough than a colored enamel DO does.
Indeed, the DO I use to bake the boule is bare cast iron, and the batard Staub DO is enameled...Very interesting, thanks a lot!!
First off, these look like lovely bakes to me! But, in response to your question, I think this may simply come down to scoring and shape of loaf. When you score a batard along its entire length, the resulting ear allows the dough to expand as the ear slowly peels back, resulting in (hopefully) some nice oven spring and airy crumb throughout the entire loaf. I noticed on the extra photo of the boule you added that there were mostly small, short cuts. The scoring is gorgeous but would naturally limit dough expansion, unless you just had some explosive oven spring that would snap through all those little bands. I think I've seen the most oven spring with boules from a deep center cross pattern, or from spirals, which seem to inhibit the upward spring a little less.
Have you thought about doing a 'natural score' where you bake the dough seam side up without actually scoring? I've had good luck with bakes utilizing that method recently and it's always interesting to see the final product--never the same look from bake to bake. This might allow for more oven spring of the boule but definitely results in a more 'organic' final look to the loaf.
I can't seem to track down the link, but there is a nice diagram out on the web somewhere that clearly shows the differences between scoring patterns and oven spring volume...batards clearly won out as I recall, due to loaf shape, length and angle of score, etc. Again, I think you have a couple of lovely bakes there!
UPDATE: I didn't find the nifty scientific diagram that I mentioned (that included angles/volumes/spring/etc) but I did run across this link from this site that was interesting, although it seems there was some divergent opinions on why the loaves rose differently:
Slashing effects on dough
Actually it totally makes sense! I will definitely give the natural score a try to see what difference it makes... Thanks a lot !!
Gaelle firstly I think both of these are wonderful and the boule in particular is very pretty to see. I might say in regards to fermentation that you could push the overall fermentation just a bit further. That being said, I think in the boule, the larger alveoli are trapped air related and not from excessively under fermentation. However, a bit of the tighter crumb to me suggests that you could have pushed fermentation a bit further after shaping. Again this is just a slight adjustment because really they are great as they are.
Benny
Actually it crossed my mind that the dough might have been a tad under-fermented, but I was not sure as when I pre-shaped the loaves (after 5h of bulk at 26C), the dough was very buoyant and jiggly. I also let the shaped loaves rest for a whole hour after shaping (26C), so that's around 6h30 of fermentation in total (including the pre-shaping, rest and shaping times), plus the overnight cold rest ...It has really been my pet peeve for a long time, finding that perfect sweet fermentation spot....Thank you so much for your insight Benny, it is so helpful!!
Gaelle we all share that pet peeve, I always find it challenging to hit that sweet spot as well. I think you did great, I only bring it up because you asked but really you were super close!
Actually I find that the closer you get from that very elusive sweet spot, the harder it is to identify the subtle clues, that's why your insight and 2 cents are so invaluable for me! So again thank you and really, do not hesitate to share your thoughts as it has helped me so much so far to progress!! I have really come a long way since I started my sourdough journey 2 years ago, thanks to you and this forum!
You are so right about that, and your intuition was spot on as well. We all learn from each other me included, I've learned a lot from what bakers on TFL has shared, it really is a great community.
I was wondering about the last part of proofing after shaping. Banneton? Covered? What was the basket sitting on both in the fridge and at room temperature?
Looking at the crumb, the larger bubbles are the top of the rising dough, top of the proofing basket. There might be some uneven temperature differences. Perhaps some insulating factors to consider at room temp or the cold retard needed to be longer. Just a thought.
The shaped loaves rested in bannetons (wood pulp for the batard, rigid cotton for the round loaf), both placed together on a metallic perforated sheet pan and wrapped in a plastic bag. I let them on the countertop for an hour, then in the fridge still on their perforated sheet pan.
Cold retard: 13h at 3C
Very interesting Mini Oven, what an eagle eye!!! Not sure what I could do though to mitigate the insulation factor, but that is definitely some invaluable food for thought...