February 5, 2022 - 3:50pm
Mixing order
Hello from the great State of North Carolina, USA
I am novice bread maker, and the art of bread making grabbed onto me.
For Artesian breads, instant yeast, stand mixer:
Should fluids be mixed to solids or the other way around? When I follow directions to add liquid to the solids, gluten forms so quickly (or at least the dough gets so thick so quickly) that the mixing is uneven. Even looking at pictures of finished breads you can often see white spots indicating lack of uniform mixing. I notice this in my breads.
What is the very best way to ensure uniform mixing of all ingredients?
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I suppose the best way is whatever works best for you. You have said...
"When I follow directions to add liquid to the solids, gluten forms so quickly (or at least the dough gets so thick so quickly) that the mixing is uneven"
That is your cue to add solids to the liquids and compare.
I mix by hand in a bowl. While I don't have any trouble either way, my preferred method is to measure out the flour, make a well and add the liquid. Then form the dough by slowly mixing in the flour on the outside into the water.
Hi Nathan,
I wasn't born in NC but I got here as soon as I could. I'm in Cedar Grove.
I haven't had that problem with incomplete mixing. I use the paddle for 1 minute of initial mixing, scrape down the sides and let it rest for 10 minutes before switching to the dough hook.
Gary
We live in Chapel Hill just off of I-40. We are also transplants. I came in 1980 to attend school and we have stayed ever since. Recently got into baking , not sure why, but it caught hold of me because of the science behind it. I'm on my 3rd bread, so I'm a newbe.
Good to meet you.
We came in 1979 for graduate school. Spent a few years in NJ at Bell labs, a few in RTP at Sun and then back at the university until I recently retired. I've been baking for years but still a newbie compared to the folks here. The science is really interesting.
The order does not matter. Both way work. Bread machines, for example, do it both ways. Some models blend solids with liquids, while others - liquids with solids. However, both mix the blend thoroughly. For 20 to 30 minutes, depending on how stiff or soft is the ball of dough.
This is your clue. Knead longer, until your ball of dough is smooth and even.
The best way to mix to homogeneity (to uniformity) is to mix long enough.
I've done both ways depending on the recipe and my own convenience. With enriched doughs I probably mix liquids first and add dry. With regular breads, probably start with dry and add liquids.
My Kitchenaid + spiral hook turns anything into dough given time. Chunky autolyses (flour+water), multiple existing doughs integrated, working in cocoa or butter into an existing dough, etc.)
I wonder if you are kneading long enough.
Alternating more kneading and rest periods might clear it up.
Within 5 minutes (often sooner) the dough is balled up, clings to the dough hook, so kneading is slowed if not over. Maybe I can scrape off the dough hook, rest for 5-10 minutes, and go another 5 minutes?
As long as the dough is getting mushed around (even if balled up), you're still kneading.
But sure you can do rests in between. You can also reduce speed. And yes you can use a spatula to manipulate the dough to keep it kneading better.
I think a clarification might be needed about "hook" as well. I have an enamelled spiral hook. Others have a "c" hook. They interact differently with dough.
Yes, that is a problem. Mixing first with the paddle, letting it rest for 10 minutes, then using the hook works better. The KA hook is not particularly effective in my experience.
I often knead by hand after using my "Danish" dough whisk to get things mixed. You can find lots of videos on YouTube of people using their hands for the entire process. ChainBaker on YouTube is really good.
Back to the stand mixer. I find upping the speed helps to sling the dough off the hook but stopping, scraping the dough off the hook and restarting is often necessary.
But find that if it is not over hydrated one thing that can be done is to pour a little water (say 10g of bassinage) into the side and that will make the dough fall off the hook and slap around like crazy for a bit. Certainly results in better homogeneity.
Don't often do it though as I normally just stop the mixer, pull the dough off the hook, spatula down the sides and switch it back on. Find that the little bit of manual intervention like that seems to work, maybe just fooling myself though.