January 17, 2021 - 3:07am
Sourdough 100% Whole wheat
Hello all,
I'd taken a big break from baking bread, but got back into it with extra time at home. I usually go for 100% Whole wheat and that's what I was playing with recently.
Had a rough time with some hard wheat which really started to frustrate me. Until I realised it was most likely the wheat and not me. I'll get back to that challenge, but when I tried a softer wheat straight after, everything just seemed to come easy.
Hammered home the concept of really knowing your flour, which I hadn't truly understood the importance of before.
72% hydration
I use a loaf tin because I use bread for sandwiches.
One of the best crusts and crumb I've achieved
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Is this still 100% whole grain or does it contain AP flour in the mix? I ask because of your reference to using softer wheat and the color. What are the ingredients in this loaf?
I look forward to the other discussion you may post on the flour you mention. I have posted many-a-time on baking 100% whole grain wheat loaves over the years. You might find Reinhart's Whole Grain Bread's book interesting.
HERE is the link on Amazon for the book.
100% whole grain wheat does have some characteristics that must be addressed in order to achieve a softer feel.
Any way you slice it, it is a beautiful loaf.
Thank you!
And thanks for the link.
It is still 100%, no mix.
Recipe is
240g whole wheat sourdough starter 100% hydration
580g whole wheat
380g water
11g salt
~10-15g olive oil, I like to add it before preshape, makes it easier to handle and I like a touch of oil in the mix, makes better final result imo.
The colour is because I took the picture at night under the light of a lamp. Next time I get a close enough result I'll post a better picture.
I don't have any flour at the moment to show, but there is a definite difference in feel. The one I had difficulty with feels hard and grainy and almost sand like.
Beautiful crumb for 100% WW, it will be perfect of sandwiches with any toppings or spreads.
Benny
Less finely milled WW flour needs some special handling to achieve softer crumb and depending on the flour, it may still be denser crumb on the spectrum-more like a high percentage rye. Since wheat has gluten, the trick is to get the starchy gel well hydrated and developed and this helps support the gluten. Meanwhile, the sandy bits and grainy bits interrupt the smoothness. It is better if they are very well hydrated but even so, may make the crumb more dense.
"Sandy' textured flour needs all the flour to be hydrated and there are many means to accomplish this. Just pick your favorite. A preferment,biga,sponge,tang zhong (contributes more starchy gel matrix to separate the sandy/branny bits) are some of the methods. The "epoxy" method works,also. I think that one is from Peter Reinhart. There is also a "Re-mix" method. I believe you mix all the ingredients pretty well in a stand mixer, let it rise about halfway in the bowl, re-mix and then do a proper full fermentation,shape,proof,bake. This really allows the gluten to fully hydrate, as well as the bits and starches so when it is re-mixed, it really develops every component.
Lots of ways to make a loaf of simple bread. No one way is right or wrong. Find a way you want/like accomplishing what you want and go from there. It may just be that the sandy flour in question may make more dense,flavorful loaves-more pumperknickel-like- for a different kind of enjoyment.
Have fun-keep posting. Interesting
Thank you for all the tips clazar.
I'd not heard of the epoxy method before, giving a quick read up, I believe it is similar to the autolyse method, but instead of 10-20% sourdough starter at poolish consistency, what is used is 50% sourdough starter at biga consistency?
BTW I tried autolyse with 3 of the bakes with that rough flour, each with different timings.
The most interesting result came from a shorter autolyse, with long bulk, and long retarded final proof. It hardly had oven spring (most trials didn't), was dense, super chewy, but had homegenous mid sized holes. Tasty.
I've autolysed many times before, I've kind of grown away from that method. I
I'd only recent heard of tang zhong, I thought I might try that with a cinnamon roll rather than a bread, but I'm open to experimenting.
I think with that 'rough' flour one of the biggest issues is that the sharper bran and particles destroy the gluten the more I work it. Next time I'm going to see if I can work around that by working the flour less or something along those lines.
This was my last bread, I'll post because I got pictures in better light, hope this better conveys the colours I get in my bread.
It was with yet another flour brand. Finely milled, soft feeling, lower protein (10%), didn't specify wheat, so I assume regular bread wheat?
Because of the lower protein I assume, didn't hold the hydration as well, so was stickier to handle, and I got my shaping a bit lopsided. Also I poorly scored it, I really need to find a better tool to do that with.
Still highly edible and perfect for my sandwiches.
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This looks really nice. I'm always interested to see whole grain bakes. You mentioned a softer wheat. Is this a soft white wheat variety? I'm curious, because I haven't experimented with soft white wheat for bread yet.
I'm not sure of the wheat variety, labels are so often short on information.
I've been to a couple of stores lately to restock on the brand I used to make the bread pictured above but didn't find it.
In the end it may just be a question of how finely milled each is.
This is what I bought yesterday and will be my next loaf.
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This one clearly says durum wheat on the label,
It looks similar to the one I used, similar protein content, probably has a rougher texture on feel.
Don't know...
When I get the brand I used before I can check again.
As to the flour I had difficulty with, that comes in a 5kg pack and I shopped it out of town, again I'll need to track down another pack to try out things again.
That looks and feels very much rougher than what is pictured above.
All WW needs some form of soaking in order to generate the best crumb. The crumb is generated by the development of gluten (a string-forming protein), the development of starchy gel (my phrase and concept-never saw it elsewhere), and the bubbles that are trapped and finally baked in place. The stringy gluten is like a netting and the gel acts like a soap film as in bubbles. The sandy/branny bits can be suspended but add texture and density. If the branny/sandy bits are not adequately wet, through and through, they will continue to absorb moisture after the bread is baked and that is when the slice just crumbles.
So it is important that the branny/sandy bits are well-soaked. Not just with the correct amount of water, but the time to absorb it-autolyse, biga, preferment,sponge,etc. It is important that the gluten strands are adequately wet so the branny/sandy bits incorporated-physically- in their structure canbe flexible. It is important that there be adequate,flexible starchy gel to fill the holes and not be too thin/fragile and break, creating a dense crumb. Over and underproofing weaken the gluten netting and contribute to a dense crumb.
So achieving a WW loaf with a pleasing crumb is do-able if the issues with the different floours are addressed. A sandy-crumbed flour will probably NOT develop a fluffy crumb no matter what you do but it can be a soft crumb, unless the sand/powder ratio is just too high. There has to be some fine gel available (formed by the very fine flour particles and water).
Have delicious fun! You are learning invaluable information on flours and textures. Each loaf has looked beautiful so you are working the dough well.
Oh-almost forgot...Slap and Fold (S&F) is a good alternative to kneading.
Hi guys
Got a bag of the 'trouble' wheat,
Indeed it is a hard durum wheat, but then so was the Triumph brand I posted further up, which I managed to make a great loaf out of, no problems.
The difference is the coarseness of the milling.
See pictures below
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I tried an autolyse trial last night,
Three iterations of hydration, overnight autolyse.
66%
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71%
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77%
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At 66% it is more like playdough than anything else. At 71% it gains slight extensibility but it still tears very easily and starts getting sticky. At 77% it hardly gains any more extensibility and it becomes a shaggy sticky mess. Basically adding more water just makes it more porridge like in consistency.
I think it is impossible to work a gluten network that resembles a regular bread out of this.
My instinct is to treat it like I would a 100% Rye bread. Increase hydration, and no kneading.
I wonder if that particular flour would be helped to form a good crumb if you used a tang zhong as part of the recipe. Here are a few posts that talk about it.
Tang zhong in Artisan Bread in 5
tang zhong in 100%ww
Essentially, a tang zhong is made by taking a portion of the flour in the recipe and adding 5x the amount of water as flour (by weight). I.e. if you take 10 grams of flour you add 50 g water. You cook this slowly for 5 min or so-until it forms a paste. Cool to under 110F before adding to the dough. Or make ahead and cool completely. I make mine in the microwave-just short blasts-about 5 or 6 times-stirring well in between blasts. A lot of times you can just take it from the recipe totals but sometimes you may have to get creative.
I also suggest a high hydration and good long soak for the remaining flour.
It would be an interesting experiment.
I had the same idea.
I don't think any of the other techniques would be of any use, but the tang zong method may be an interesting experiment.
In the mean time I used the autolysed flours, threw everything together with a starter and worked to a 82% hydration. Increased dough weight anticipating less rise and spring. No kneading, only bulk.
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Crumb has a nice texture, bread is tasty.
I could go longer on rising time, ran out of time before the end of the day and wanted bread for this morning.
I tried the tangzhong method with the rough flour the other day.
I had pushed the hydration up on an in-between bake, so I pushed it yet again this time to 92%, using 10% of the flour in the tangzhong.
I got zero oven spring, perhaps partly from overproof due to higher temps and residual temp from incorporating the tangzhong.
So a bit tighter crumb. Perhaps more tender, hard to gauge. I guess I'll find out the effect days from now as the loaf ages.
Don't know of its worth the extra effort.
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