December 7, 2020 - 7:28am
Super sticky/runny 70% dough even after 15 min. kneading
Hi,
So I have a 70% dough (for soft pretzels) and it is super runny and sticky even after 15 minutes of needing (and also before then of course). I've tried both a mixer and manual kneading (slapping it on the counter and folding in half).
The recipe uses hot water, should I use cold? Allow to autolyse? Other tips?
Regards,
Ittay
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Can you post the recipe? That would be very helpful.
(I used google translate to create it quickly)
Materials
To dough
2 cups flour + 1 cup flour
Teaspoon of dry yeast
A glass and a third of very hot water
3 tablespoons oil
A tablespoon of honey
Teaspoon of salt
For coating
Teaspoon baking soda
Two tablespoons of boiling water
Whipped egg or butter or milk
Coarse salt, sesame seeds, fennel
preparation
In a bowl, mix 2 cups of flour with the yeast and salt.
Add the hot water at once and mix with a wooden spoon.
Add the honey and oil and mix.
Add the rest of the flour (a cup) until the dough can be kneaded by hand.
Transfer to a floured surface and put in 5 min.
Put the dough in a bowl, cover with a towel and leave for 10 minutes.
Divide the dough into 8 balls and make a pretzel (or pretzel) shape.
Crush the ball a little and roll into it over and over again (like a roll)
Roll into sausage. You can lubricate the surface
If there is resistance to the dough, set aside and continue with the others then repeat. If not, tears will form
Stretch to a length of 60 cm
Make a U-shape, cross the edges twice and fold over the bottom
Transfer to a pan with baking paper.
Spread the soda water and mash the egg and sprinkle the rest of the toppings on top.
Preheat oven to 200 degrees and only when it is hot, put the mold in
Bake for about 15 minutes - until the pretzels get a tan.
Well, you had starting hydration of about 80%, plus you probably gelatinized some of the flour with hot water, effectively taking it out of the equation and raising hydration to whatever. So, a soup sounds like par for the course. Oh, and you probably killed the yeast.
suave, you could be right about the hot water, but it totally depends on how hot the water was. The loaf I have been baking recently uses hot water, approximately 105dF dough temp after mixing in the water and everything works fine.
EDIT: I got the impression that Ittyad was using a known to work recipe for pretzels, so a partial gelatinization might have been the intended effect.
Ittyad, do you know the temperature of the water you used?
Ittyad, what kind of flour did you use?
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How is it 80%? 3 cups of flour is 140*3=420 and a cup and a third of water is 320. 320/420 is 76%.
And I'm not using scalding water, they're just warm. And my question was about kneading, not raising. Once I add flour so I can handle it, it raises just fine. I'm not sure if the warm water also gelatinized the flour.
140g flour is a heavy cup. What's the flour?
Flour. 125g cup x 3 =. 375g. Water. 240g cup x 1.33 = (319,2) or 320g. 320/375 = 0,853 or 85% hydration
Flour. 130g cup x 3 = 390g. Water 238g cup x 1.33 = 317g. 317/390 = 0,81. Or 81% hydration
which could be very wet depending on the flour type, ok, runny. Knead in more flour and taste dough for enough salt.
Next time use less water. How much? Take flour weight. Let's say it is 400g (for example) and multiply by 0.7. (70%) gives 280g water. 280g divided by 240g per cup gives 1c + 3 Tbs roughly.
Topping is a new one... I get it, painted with soda water (which does make it sticky. No need for egg.) What does it taste like?
The recipe is inexact, which is not a good thing for consistent results when baking.
Use recipes based on weight (grams).
Agree with the previous comment about the recipe being high hydration, not 70% as in the original post.
Find another recipe that is proven, preferably from someone who bakes with it frequently.
Hi,
I think you assumed that 1 glass is equal to 1 cup in volume and ended up with a soupy dough. The formula as you quoted it uses cups for flour and glasses for water. I assume that one glass is 125 ml. Also, 1 cup of flour is anywhere from 120g to 160g, it depends on the flour and how you measure it, sifted or not.
Normally, soft pretzels are baked from a rather stiff dough. Commercial formula for a soft pretzel dough prescribes a 34-37% hydration IF flour moisture content is 15%. Normally, at home, flour is much drier than that. So we need to mix 50-60% hydration dough.
The formula that you translated shows that the dough consistency is medium to stiff, because it talks about dough being rather tough and 'resistant' to stretching, to rolling it out into a rope 60cm long.
Anyways, I would advise to reduce water to at least 1 cup (220-250ml) for 1 lb of flour (3 cups) and you will solve all your problems, because oil and honey being liquid will also help soften your dough.
Yes, water should be hot (about 45-50C) to activate yeast immediately and you can mix by hand or in your mixer, it doesn't matter. Aim for a medium consistency dough and knead until homogeneous and smooth. Let it rest for 10 min, divide into pieces of equal size, and start shaping.
best wishes
mariana
The recipe is an automated translation, since what I have is in Hebrew. Sorry if it caused confusion. In the original, it is all cups (240ml) and I actually prepare it by weight (240g for water, 140g for flour)
Wow, I thought the pretzel is soft because of the high hydration.
Thank you for all the tips. Will try them out!