Dan Lepard kneading method - stodgy bread!
Hello,
I'm a fairly inexperienced bread baker and I have been experimenting with recipes from the book Short & Sweet by Dan Lepard. The kneading method in this book is to do light kneading at intervals. However I'm not having much success! I tried making this black pepper and caraway rye recipe and the result was stodgy and the dough was separated in pieces, as you will see in the photo of my sad loaf.
Does anyone have advice or videos in how to make sure I get this bread making method right? Or should I try different methods?
I realised from googling that there is some debate about the rye coffee porridge step in this recipe, and that could have been a problem here as well. The mix did seem quite dry. However I have also had a similar stodginess problem with Dan Lepard's simple wholemeal loaf, using the same kneading method. With both of these breads, the dough never seems to achieve the stretchiness and smoothness that I get from other recipes with more traditional kneading (I have had plenty of success with making foccacia, pizza dough, hot cross buns). When I stretch the dough it breaks very quickly and then it won't come back together again.
Thanks for any advice, I feel like I'm being really stupid because it's not meant to be hard but I'm definitely doing something wrong!
Btw this is the recipe for the rye bread: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/19/how-to-bake-rye-bread
Leonie
Could you let us know the flour brand and type and the full recipe if possible? Same for your wholemeal flour too.
Your loaf looks like a mistake in following the recipe. Flour used and/or a measuring error looks likely.
No offence taken. I assume all mistakes are possible :)
These are the ingredients according to the recipe:
325ml regular black coffee, warm or cold
150g rye flour
2 tsp crushed black pepper
2 tsp anise, fennel or caraway seeds
1 tsp dry instant yeast
1½ tsp salt
325g strong white flour, plus extra for shaping
1 beaten egg and poppy seeds, to finish
The brands of flour I used are:
Bacheldre Watermill Organic Stoneground Rye
Doves Farm Organic Strong White Bread Flour.
Now I'm wondering if it could also have been the yeast, having scrutinized it I realised I should have been storing it in the fridge not the cupboard (it's a small can, rather than individual sachets).
I used digital scales to measure the flour. According to the method, I used only a bit of oil during kneading so not much extra flour was added.
Thanks in advance and sorry to expose everyone to such a sad looking loaf :p
325ml water (or coffee in this case) = 325g
i love Dan Lepard and that book and i also use hisa kneading method which makes total sense - in fact between himslef and trevor wilson i think they make the most sense, scientifically, when it ocmes to kneading. If hou want to see him kneading check this out :@ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loAGmUj4VL8 - its a simple ewhite bread but his method is clear - all kneading does is accelerate the gluten forming network, a process that happens naturally...by doing short bursts inbetween rest your allowing the flour to hydarate well and the gluten to form at a gradual pace which ends up with a beautiful supple, elastic dough....what he always says is be present in every axtion. Start slow, theres no need for rushing and no need for brute force, gentle, affirmative actions....as for the ryew porridge....temperature is critical....try his black bread...really good @ https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2007/aug/11/features.weekend4
@Lechem So you recommend weighing the liquid as well?
@mutantspace Thanks for the video link! Through that I also found this video @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSJLWOU5Whc which has a very clear shot of the kneading. That's helpful to see because it is different from how I've been doing it, and from reading his directions I couldn't quite picture how it was meant to be done.
Thank you both for your replies! I will definitely have to have another go at this bread and get it right hopefully...
here will tell you to weigh every single ingredient. An accurate kitchen scale is a necessity for good bread baking, in fact baking of any kind, cakes included
ok weighing liquids sounds like a useful step! perhaps I should check the accuracy of my scales as well, I've had them for some time.
Hi I'm just going to straight copy your ingredients and give a suggestion as to how you could do it next time.
Ingredients:
325ml regular black coffee, warm or cold
150g rye flour
2 tsp crushed black pepper
2 tsp anise, fennel or caraway seeds
1 tsp dry instant yeast
1½ tsp salt
325g strong white flour, plus extra for shaping
1 beaten egg and poppy seeds, to finish
Method: Make a yeast broth by adding hot bath water (should be no more than a few tbsp) temp + yeast + a pinch of sugar. Whisk together. Wait. If your yeast starts to form peaks that looks like a scoby -- it's good enough for this low-gluten bread.
Add lukewarm temp coffee. Strong white flour and rye flour. Dough should come come together at this point. Continue to mix until smooth. Fold in seasoning/herbs.
At this point, let the dough rest/proof/rise until it has doubled in size (just be patient). Shape quickly. And don't use a lot of extra flour (flour your hands or even wet your hands if you prefer). Let rise again. Slash and bake in a blazing hot oven.
You should have better luck next time.
Happy baking.
-S.
seam side up. Try baking seem side down and use wet hands to shape the dough into a loaf.
I found that the coffee/flour mix should not be allowed to boil, just heat until a uniform gel forms. I use the microwave oven. 30 sec at a time with stirring between first on high and only zap as long as needed. Another tip, weigh the bowl with the liquid and flour before heating and then after gel has formed, replace any evaporated water. Often a tablespoon of water is needed if cooked too long. That one tablespoon makes a big difference!
Rye flours vary in absorbing liquids and I remember this dough as a stiff one but not a dry one. The gel reduced the amount of stickiness typical with rye but it will still be sticky. Try kneading and shaping with a bowl of water nearby so that you can dip finger tips on occasion. It should feel like a roll out cookie dough before rising and before shaping. If the dough is cracking while shaping, wet hands and work in some more water into the dough.
This is not a fluffy wheat bread but a great wheat/rye to hold up toppings open-face at happy hour.
@sophiabrenn
@MiniOven
Thank you both for your advice on the method. Really grateful for all this advice! Incredible helpful for someone who is new to using anything beyond regular wheat flour!
P.s. It was seam side down, I just turned it upside down to show how the dough didn't come together :)