Over proofing and under proofing--requesting assistance
Many thank yous for a wonderful welcome to this site last weekend. I spent the entire weekend baking and things went well, but could have gone better. I focused the weekend on two recipes:
1. The beginner sourdough from The Perfect Loaf, which seems to be some sort of mashup between Tartine and FWSY found at: http://www.theperfectloaf.com/beginners-sourdough-bread/. My breads never got any real spring in the oven. Everything was going wonderfully according to plan when I left the dough alone for the final two hours of the bulk rise (before shaping) and things got little...active. At the end of the bulk, there's supposed to be small bubbles, but I had some pretty giant over-bubbling, but proceeded anyway. What could I do? The temperature was as requested in the recipe and things were exactly on point up until then. I made sure to shape well, but things fell apart in the morning when I took the breads out of the bannetons. Here's my crumb:
Honestly, it tasted great. I used 650g KA Bread, 110g Vitamix milled WW flour, 98g KA White WW, 49g Bob’s Red Mill Dark Rye Flour. I'm pretty frustrated, but I will try again. I assume it was the over-ferment of the bulk that did me in here. Any other ideas welcome.
2. I also made the artisan whole grain sourdough from Breadtopia.com for the second time. Here's my bread:
Yes, I tried to get fancy with my slashing inspired by the girlmeetsrye blog. I should have kept it simple, of course. I got amazing oven spring, but after the disappointment of the "perfect loaf" breads, I didn't want to overproof on the final rise when it came out of the fridge this morning. I think the tears in the slashing comes from under proofing, yes? I'm also overflouring the banneton. Got to lighten up there, too.
Here's the crumb:
It's dense, but it's mostly whole grain. It tastes great to me, although my family enjoys a more open crumb and a lighter loaf with more white flour. Any recommendations for improvement are much appreciated.
I also made a huge batch of sourdough waffles. My first try using extra starter. Not bad, but I'm looking forward to trying the ww pastry flour waffles from JMonkey found on this site. Waffles were a success.
Thanks for reading and for any words of advice.
Happy baking!
What was the problem or happening with the bannetons?
The loaves look good, crumb excellent. I might have popped the big bubbles at the end before shoving the one into the oven but looks like it should.
The mixed whole looks picture perfect for crumb... is that the beautiful spiral one? Lovely!
Mini
ready for the heat, take a small straight sided glass and take off a small hunk of dough and shape it and put it in the glass . Note what your shaped dough looks like in the basket. When white bread gets to 90% proof in the glass it is ready for the heat. Note what it looks like in the basket at that time. It will have risen between 1/2" and 1" max in the basket - not much at all. For whole grain breads, they need to go in the heat even earlier. at 85% proof. This is the hardest thing to master for new bread bakers.
Happy baking
Never short of good ideas! We're so lucky to have you!
I am trying to understand it.
Dabrownman-can you explain what you mean about whole grain and when to put in the oven& what 85% proof means? How long it rises or sits in the pan?
fermenting ir or proofing. Watch the dough - not the clock. A whole grain bread is one made with whole grain flours rather than white flour. 100% proof is when the dough has doubled in volume and whole grain breads need to go in the oven at 85% proof or 85% of doubling in volume. It is hard to tell what this is when using a basket so it you use a small straight sided glass as a cheat you can easily tell when it has risen 85% and you can note what your basket then looks like at 85% proof so you can learn what 85% really looks like in your basket.
this didn't work for me in the fridge because the small ball of dough cooled off a lot more rapidly than the dough in the banetons.
by the time one is moving on from basic to shaped retarded breads, you have learned what the basket should look like for the proof you are after.
I haven't quite got there yet since I started using these particular baskets when I was into proofing in the fridge. I am sure I am a chronic over proofer. Oh well, it will come. ;-)
overnight and then shape and proof the next morning in the baskets. When I do that I usually bake when they proof about 50-60%. I try to shape gently and not be too harsh with the fermented dough and since it is still cold an hour out of the fridge when I do the shaping.it is easier not to degass the dough as much as when it is warm.
I will try that with my next batch of bread. That timing isn't going to work unfortunately for the batch I have sitting on the counter (Seeded Wheat inspired by Tartine 3).
like Minis rye ratio that we calculated with spelt also--that I can mix it and put it in the covered bowl and then put it into the fridge (after a few hours?) & then in the morning put it into the pan to watch for rising? This is always possible? And maybe the rising takes longer? Or its better with a recipe similar to the one you were responding too? I like the idea to save me time, this is my issue. I keep reading so many steps and doing less at once helps break it down. I also want to make a spelt pizza, that goes in fridge overnight, can you link me to a recipe you use?
how do you measure 85% in the small glass? I left you more info in my original topic in artisan forums. My idea is mark the height and mark double then mark 1/2 of double but guess for a little above that? Can you use a measure tape to see 85%? Is the ball about a quarter size? Do you take It from the dough after mixing and sitting in the coveredbowl? And put the rest in the pan to rise?
I use a rubber band t mark the beginning height and one for a double and then guess at the 85% or 90% mark. Since you are looking at the volume for the final proof you take the dough off right before final shaping.and put the rest in the pan.
The little dough ball can be used to decorate the top of the loaf right before baking so nothing goes to waste, I like making a head of wheat out of them use scissors to make the individual seeds.