How to achieve impressive-looking tin loaf
I have recently been experimenting with tin loaves -- they just work better for sandwiches and the toaster. We like a partt wholemeal/wholegrain malted seeded recipe -- but here's the challenge.
My wife wants to see a 'proper' loaf that looks as tall the ones bought in the bakery or farmer's market where they sell them as farmhouse loaves.
Mine taste fine. Really good, actually. But they look square, a bit squat rather than tall.
I have a farmhouse size tin which is a size bigger than the usual 8 x 4 in (to get the width) and I go for about 1250 g dough from 750 g flour. Typically about half strong white bread flour and the rest stoneground white (cream coloured, contains the wheatgerm) and about 15% stoneground wholemeal, with 25 g brown malt and a handful of malted grains.
Size isn't everything -- but perception is. I just need mine to look more like the farmhouse loaves sold commercially to satisfy my picky 'customer'!
I know there are folks here who are achieving what you are after, and I expect they will give you great in formation. One thing I would note is that people tend to bake in an oven that is too cool. I recently bought an infrared thermometer and was quite shocked to see how long it takes my cast iron to come up to temperature in my gas oven. Long after the temperature beeps at 500 degrees, my cast iron reads 300 degrees.
Since oven spring can be impacted greatly by the proper heat, is it possible that your oven is not quite up to temperature when you throw the tin in? Do you put the tin on top of a hot stone? If so, measure the temperature of the stone before you start the bake.
I do have an infrared and that's a good tip to check the stone (which I am using) or the cast iron (which I do use with a smaller tin sometimes). My current oven maxes out at 200 deg C (with fan).
I do have a tin which is a bit deeper and wider than a standard 8 x 4 and it just fits in my Robert Dyas iron casserole (US translation Dutch Oven) and I have done better with this, so that tells a story...
and more dough?
It's hard to compare home made stuff with (big) commercial - as that's going to be full of improvers and done via a highly mechanised process. Especially if there is any wholemeal in it.
However 1250g of dough is a big loaf! My usual scaling for an 800g loaf is in the region of 915g.
This:
is in a 1lb tin, but that's all-white flour. (dough scaled at 500g) Where the "split" is is essentially the top of the tin.
I do a 100% wholemeal in a 2lb tin too, but it barely gets much rise in the oven.
I'm about to try some stoneground & sifted white (are you using Stoats?) so it will be interesting to see what the difference I get is.
-Gordon
@Gordon You guessed right: Stoate's Stoneground white. Very good flavour. (The other one I use is Bacheldre, both 100% and 'white' which like the Stoate's is a cream colour.) Blended with high protein strong white -- this one was Tesco Finest which is milled by Carr's and I think is basically Canadian.
... and it never gave me good volume. Try Waitrose Very Strong Canadian.
Cheers
thanks. for various reasons, I'm considering switching to stoats for most of the flour I use (from Shipton Mill) my test bakes so-far have been OK - the only issue I can think of is that people whinge about the colour of e.g. baguettes, etc. (most of my loaves have a touch of wholemeal in them anyway)
I'm looking at the bread tins that Creeds sell for some bigger ones: https://creedsdirect.co.uk/category/bread-tins1/800-breadtins1 the 1lb tins I have are nice but the 2lb ones I currently have have shallower sides.
I normally stick things into the oven at 250C to start with too - then down to about 210 after 10-12 minutes. Time for a new oven :-) However a cooler oven (not that 200C is cool!) should let the internal bubbles expand a little better I'd have thought before the dough 'sets'...
And I'm off to test a new oven tomorrow myself before spending silly money on it...
-Gordon
hi gordon have you got a recipe for your bread recipe??? that loaf is just what i am looking for
To get really good volume in a tin you need a deep tin - preferably with straight sides. The tins I use are about 6.5 x 4 inches (internal) across the top and 3.375 inches deep. Generally, with predominately white flour, I get a loaf of around 5 to 5.25 inches in height. With predominately wholemeal, it's a different story - usually 4.75 inches in height. The amount of dough I use in those tins is always around 625g. The hydration is usually 65% (white) or 70% (wholemeal).
I have found that the flour makes a big difference to loaf volume - I generally use the Very Strong Canadian (white and wholemeal) flours - often blended with others. Some of the organic stone-ground flours that I've tried have given relatively poor volume.
How does this compare with your results?
@aroma: My tin in 10 in long, just under 6 in wide at top and 5 in wide at the bottom. Depth just under 4 in. It's a big tin but this produces a sandwich slice the same shape and size as a shop-bought tin loaf and a farmhouse-style large loaf.
The disappointing offering was about 4 in high and I was looking for 5 in at least.
I note your comment about organic stoneground flours and poor volume!
Here's the pic now:
The crumb looks good to me. I would have to go with the suggestion that you increase the amount of dough you use in the pan.
... happy to make a sandwich out of that! Looks good.
-Gordon
I wonder if it's purely down to the flour/gluten/protein - with nothing added - ie. no E300/Vitamin C (aka flour "improver"), etc.
British wheat is typically soft/low gluten, so most bread flours have Canadian or European hard flours mixed into them - the stuff I normally use (Shipton Mill No. 4) has 12% protein and I do get good results with it. (it's a mix of British and Canadian)
-Gordon
A good baker would get a good result, even with my oven. As I have on many other occasions. Not this time though. I think there was something flawed in my process of sponge into dough, first ferment, shape, final proof and bake.
I'm going to go with this exact recipe again and pay attention to the details. With reference to helpful advice offered on this thread. @aroma, Waitrose Very Strong Canadian readily available!
I have just scaled up from my tins to yours and proportionally you are using much less dough in your large tin than I do in mine. Initially (before proving) does your dough half fill the tin?
Before any rise/prove -- not quite. Fair point. I'll up the quantity some more...
I have achieved a fair result at that quantity before, but that was a stronger, whiter mix.
The rise this time was a bit slow. I think there's a question about how much yeast I use. I rely on the pre-ferment which is 1/8 tsp yeast, then keep the yeast addition to about 4 g for the main dough. In this instance, less may not be more...
Here's a link to the post: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/327127#comment-327127
The link to Creeds (within thread link above) is really helpful together with some very detailed discussion on tins.
It took me a while to work out that the shallow "2 lb tins" widely sold have nothing in common with the tins used to produce 800 g bakery tin loaves. You can get Farmhouse-style tins online via Amazon or (for example) the T3056 direct from Creeds which is the straightest and deepest of the three they offer. Creeds use the description 'Farmhouse' for a couple of interesting rounded-end tins.
looks fine. When i bake in a tine for sandwich bread i like to fill the tin to about 60% and let the dough rise 1" above the rim in the middle - in the oven it goes for some more oven spring. One easy way to figure out how much dough each tin needs is to put the empty tin on a scale and fill it water. If you are looking for a 90% proof when it hits the oven, then take the weight of the water times .6 (point 6) to get 60% for the weight of the dough when the tin is filled. As example - A tin that holds 2,000 g of water would need 1,200 g of dough (2000 x.6=1200)to fill it the way like it.
The let the dough rise 1" above the rim in the middle (not the edge net to the rim of the tin), which will give you roughly a 90% rise - put it in the oven. You should get some fine spring and a loaf that is a good looker too
Happy tin baking