New Spiral Mixer Causing To Much Oven Spring?
Background. I started making Kaiser buns in my Ankarsrum mixer. I followed the recipe I had and they turned out great. I just purchased a commercial spiral mixer and i'm hitting my head against the wall in frustration.
The first mix I did, I followed the recipe to a T. The spiral mixer did a great job mixing but I noticed all along the rest of the process, shaping balls, rolling out the dough to stamp it and resting the dough after stamping that the dough was very airy and rose quickly during every stage. While I don't know the dough temperature, the dough to touch was cool. I'm positive I had gluten development.
The biggest problem I'm having is that once in the oven the Kaisers are rising beyond what they should and they are unusable. Today I tried different methods to see what would work, a long mix a short mix. Final proof normal and no final proof(a test). All the buns came out the same. With horrific Kaiser bun oven spring. All my ingredients going into the mixer are cool with the water being cold. I'm at my wits end! 3 times today I have tried and failed to produce a decent Kaiser bun and the only thing that has changed is the mixer.
Did you try reducing yeast? If you have superior mixing, you might be doing a better job of integrating yeast with food?
We are trying that tomorrow. I thought I would ask just in case my problem clicked with someone. I agree, the mixing is much better and we feel that's the issue. Tomorrow will prove us right or wrong!
at least until the problem is figured out. How about crushed ice water?
I have a spiral mixer and an Ank mixer and I don't have a problem with too much oven spring, as my baguettes would open up violently even if I develop the dough without a machine. An open spring is a function of a couple of important variables including the age of the dough and the oven/baking conditions, assuming the leavening agent is up to task and the dough is strong.
You say you don't know the dough temperature - well, you should! Do you not have a probe thermometer? You can buy them for very little money.
Having said that, spiral mixers don't warm dough up much unless you are mixing for a long time... How long are you mixing for?
You need to give us your recipe and timings to get a better diagnosis.
Lance
That was the base recipe I'm working from. The recipe I'm using is more then that and it works for the mixer. I've tried 7300 ish grams of dough and I get the same problem. I scaled back the recipe to only make 12 buns so I can test what I'm doing. 12 buns at 152 grams each.
The recipe works just fine in my Ank. The only change has been the spiral mixer. We notice the dough is 100% different between the spiral mixer and the Ank. We have today tried less yeast(the yeast is fine), we have tried conditioner, we have tried a limited final proof and no final proof. We have tried a shorter mix. We are using a commercial model 30 Qt mixer and Southbend ovens. The reason for no temperature on the dough is because I'm following a recipe that didn't give a temperature range and I don't check dough temperatures on standard bread I'm making. I've never had an issue before now.
The recipe:
800 g Flour
24 g Sugar
12 g yeast
16 g salt
16 g lard
512 g cold water
Mix let hydrate 15 mins. Knead for 10 mins, rest for 10 mins, knead another 5 mins.
Proof 1 hr, cut into 152 g pieces, roll into balls, rest for 10. Shape and place upside down for 15 mins. Then turn right side up and proof for 50 mins. Bake at 400 with steam for 22 mins.
Thanks. It seems like not very much dough in a big mixer. I have a 5l (pretty much 5 quart) spiral mixer and I don't like to do much less than 500g flour in a mix. Maybe it IS mixing in a lot of air?
Maybe you need to mix for less time (I know you say you've tried this, but stop as soon as you get a windowpane).
And maybe you need to be brave and do a 3kg flour mix trial.
Is your mixer single speed or two speed?
Oh and your yeast rate seems pretty high, assuming it is dried yeast. If so, I'd try halving it.
Lance
is for 500g flour, so 12g is for 1000g. If you are multiplying the recipe, less yeast needed as mass dough has heat effect.
Thank you for your reply. I'll try another batch tomorrow and see where it takes me.
Curious if you solved the problem. The formula you give produces 9 rolls?? 12g instant yeast? Mix time at what speed? I found my Ank and my Hobart did not develop the dough like the spiral does. Thanks
This sounds like a high-quality problem. My issue is always the lack of a good oven spring! My first thought is one you said you were going to try, using less yeast. But as others have said, temperature plays a huge role (Punny?) as well.