December 27, 2021 - 12:42pm
Sourdough Cave
Hello, I'm sure this might be a common problem I have it from time to time, but can't figure out why. I was following this recipe https://www.theperfectloaf.com/tartine-sourdough-country-loaf-bread-recipe/ which is basically Tartine's Country Loaf. I did use Tartine's baking method because Perfect Loaf has to change his because of elevation. I also u
My sourdough is often dense.
Please help. I want to have good sourdough.
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Can you post a little more about your method and recipe? How long in bulk fermentation? Final proof? Temperatures?
My best guess is you are under proofing your dough. Dense crumb with large pockets is a good indication of underproofing.
Yes definitely underfermented! Assuming your starter is strong, give it more time and/or higher temperature.
Welcome to TFL. Good to have you aboard.
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I agree with HeiHei and Ilya, the tight pin-hole crumb at top and bottom does look like under-fermentation.
But the one big cavern with ragged "stalactites" hints at gluten breakdown from too much acid or some other reason. (Regular under-fermentation usually has tunnels, not one big cavern due to a collapse.)
A cavern or a collapsed roof usually happens from over-fermentation, but can also happen if the starter/levain got too acidic or has turned "proteolytic" (if that's the right word) and took on the ability to break down proteins. If that's the case, the starter might need "fixed up", but I don't remember what the normal way of doing that is. It's somewhere on TFL.
Hopefully, one of our starter experts will chime in.
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If you changed or substituted anything in the recipe from ThePerfectLoaf, please describe, as that may give a clue.
Please also describe how you feed/maintain your starter -- both normal maintenance feedings, and what you do leading up to using it -- as there may be a clue there, too.
I think insufficient fermentation together with insufficient gluten development / dough strength can cause a cave like this too. And insufficient fermentation can cause insufficient dough strength on its own, so I think fixing the fermentation is the most important step here, and then see where to go next.
Yeah, I can see that possibility.
I think the stalactites hint more at degradation of gluten than at the absence of developed gluten. Though your plan of addressing just underfermentation as the first step is very logical.
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More questions for jrod. This is to see if your flour has sufficient protein for gluten to develop with the Tartine method.
What country are you in, and what brands / types of flour are you using? (Please be very specific and detailed.) Many types of bread flour in most countries outside of North America are just not very suitable for the "Tartine method." Those types of flour require slightly different methods. And they could be one of the sources of the gluten failing to form as Ilya suggests.
Another thing to check for in your white (AP/bread) flour: Is "malted wheat flour", "malted barley flour", or "amylase" shown in the list of ingredients? When using a white flour that has none of those, under-fermentation is common.
Thanks for all the help. While I've been making sourdough for a couple of years. This is a new problem I've been having.
We recently moved and I got a starter from a friend. I don't know how she fed hers, but I fed it twice a day for a couple of days before I tried to make anything. I made sure it at least doubled each time. I feed it with 75 gms of all-purpose, 75 grams of wheat, and 150 gms of ~80°F water. If I remember correctly the flours are King Arthur brand. We put our flours in clear bins, and so I no longer have the bags.
I didn't deviate from the Perfect Loaf except that I followed Tartine's baking instructions from his book.
One thing I didn't factor in is that it snowed that week and our house stayed around 66-67°F. I don't have a proofing device so it just sat out on the counter. I tried the trick of leaving it in the oven with just the oven light on, but my oven thermometer didn't seem to show it warmed up any that way.