Fool’s Crumb
Hello! I am an amateur baker and have been playing around with sourdough for quite some time now. I have made great progress; however, it seems as though that every issue I troubleshoot, another one arises. A persistent issue of mine is “Fool’s Crumb,” as I have heard some call it in the sourdough community. Basically, my bread rises in the middle, but slopes downward near the edges. Furthermore, the interior is gummy and the crumb extremely uneven. I have heard it is due to under fermentation, over proofing, or weak starter. I allowed my levain to rise overnight and did the float test, and did the windowpane test after my last set of folds (medium strength windowpane but I was scared to overdue it). For reference, the sourdough method I used on the bread is:
1000 g Bread Flour
750 g water
200 g levain (made 1:2:2 starter:flour:water)
20 g salt
Autolyse 1 1/2 hour Flour+ Water + Salt (TheFoodGeek tested salt in autolyse and apparently it does not affect the end result?)
Pinch in starter
Bulk fermentation 3 1/2 hours, 5 coil folds in 30 minute intervals and 1 hour left alone at the end
Preshape, rest for 20 minutes, final shape, straight into fridge
Proofed in fridge overnight approximately 16 hours
Baked 500 F 20 minutes in dutch oven sprits with water, 450 25 min
It would be greatly appreciated to hear all your input! Thank you!
(The pictures of my bread will not upload but I will try to figure out if I can comment them below)
Picture would be most helpful. Enjoy!
Sorry I am new here 😅. I linked what my bread looks like at the top of my original post! Sorry again!
Hi, Ty.
If the error you are getting while trying to upload a photo is, "The file is too large" I have an easy workaround.
1. Upload the photo to FB
2. Download the photo back to your device.
3. FB does a great job of compressing files that are uploaded. Now upload the new FB file to The Fresh Loaf. The file will be small enough to meet the Fresh Loaf size limit. Sorry if this is a bit convoluted. I have learned to live with dyslexia, sometimes my solutions are rather roundabout.
Thank you so much for the recommendation!
I'd start with not "pinching in" the starter. Or if ya do, knead well by hand to get better distribution of the starter. See what happens. Enjoy!
Ooo, okay! I’ll definitely try that next time. Thanks!
This is the entire loaf haha!
E7D70190-CA46-471E-866A-CFFFC3DF1B8F.jpeg
Welcome to TFL!
This one is under-fermented, one reason you can tell is by the "secondary" burst coming out the expansion area.
But....
You're not telling us the whole story. These two loaves, the one in the picture at the top of the post, versus the one in the link, IMG_2981.JPG, are two different formulas.
IMG_2981.JPG has darker crumb, and looks like it has some whole grain flour. (Whole grain flour makes dough ferment more and quicker.) The pic at the top of the page looks like all white flour.
IMG_2981.JPG looks a tad over-fermented. And I agree with Phaz, it looks like the levain wasn't mixed/distributed well enough - the fermentation is not even.
Also possible... as IMG_2981.JPG sat in the fridge, the bottom of the banneton cooled, and maybe something sat on top keeping the upper side warmer longer.
The crumb of the loaf at the top of the post appears under-fermented.
--
Also 500 F is too hot for white flour bread. That's another cause for the double burst -- the top of the loaf started to harden/crust before the inside was done expanding.
And too high a baking temp is why the bottom burnt.
Just leave it at 450F for the whole bake.
Bon appétit, amigo.
Both loaves came from the same batch of 100% white bread flour! Sorry for the confusion! I covered the bannetons with aluminum foil before allowing both loaves to ferment (one baked after 8 hours (the whole loaf picture) and one after 16 (the sliced bread)). Should I try plastic wrap next time to avoid uneven cooling? Also, should I knead the starter in as Phaz suggested? Thanks for the feedback!
Tell me if I got this right: You're saying the picture of slices at the top of the post, and the picture of the loaf in the above comment, are from 2 bakes, of the same batch of dough.
But I'm saying this photo:
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/files/u146651/IMG_2981.JPG
_looks_ like it is from a different batch of dough due to the darker crumb. I suppose it could be just the lighting.
Which bread does
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/files/u146651/IMG_2981.JPG
correspond to, the one at the top of the original post (O.P.) or the uncut loaf in the comment, or something else entirely?
That is not my loaf of bread, I am sorry. I was having trouble uploading a photo before so I linked that as a reference to what my loaf looked like. It is an entirely different loaf. Your first assumption is correct tho, the photos in the post and my comment are from the same batch of dough. Sorry again for the confusion! I’m still getting used to the website 😅.
Got it.
To prevent others from getting confused, please edit the original post to take out
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/files/u146651/IMG_2981.JPG
(My comment about the fridge proof was based on that photo.)
Thanks.
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Yes: This dough is underfermented based on the previously stated clues/evidence.
When was the _start_ of the creation of this starter (flour first mixed with water), and when did it start reliably doubling when fed?
It usually takes at least two weeks from the initial start of creation before a new starter is ready to use. And, before it's baked with, it needs to reliably double-after-feeding for about a week, at least, for things to settle down, balance out, and mature.
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3.5 hours is usually too short for bulk ferment unless the dough and room temp was warm. What was the room temp for the bulk ferment?
--
And 500 F is too hot for all white flour bread.
Good luck amigo. You're off to a good start. A few tweaks and you're there.
Thank you so much for the feedback!
"Once I decide to bake sourdough, I feed it about 3-4 times until I start to see it double in size. "
Depending on what you're _looking for_ to determine when to feed, what you describe there (feeding 3 to 4 times _before_ it even doubles) is a possible source of how the starter is being weakened, not strengthened.
I'm not a starter expert, but Phaz is, so I'll back off at this point and let him advise.
He does great, especially when people describe _exactly_ what they do. "feeding once a week" is not specific enough. Exact ratios, timings, how long at room temp before feeding, how long at room temp after feeding and before you put back in fridge. Do you ever just stir and not feed, etc. Paint a good word picture.
"Calling Dr. Phaz!"
Here is as descriptive as I can get haha:
I store my starter in a mason jar with the lid screwed on lightly in the fridge. I feed equal amounts of starter, flour, and water (100 grams each). On weeks where I do not plan to make sourdough, I feed it at the same time (9 a.m.) every Sunday. When I do this, I stir vigorously until everything looks homogeneous and stick it straight into the fridge.
When I plan on making sourdough, I take my starter out of the fridge and begin the feeding immediately (Sunday 9 a.m.). I discard 200 grams each day, while simultaneously feeding 100 grams each flour and water (1:1:1 ratio starter to flour to water). On Friday, I wait until 9 p.m., feed the mother starter, and use 50 grams of the discard to make “levain” as I have heard some call it. I take the 50 grams, and feed it 100 grams flour and 100 grams water. I let that sit overnight and the sourdough process begins Saturday morning.
To sum up:
That’s all I got to be honest. My apologies for any gaps in my process, I am still fairly new to sourdough. Thank you so much for your help and feedback!
On baking week, monday 9am to friday 9pm, where is the starter kept, room temp or fridge?
And that 50+100+100 levain that you make Friday at 9pm and let sit until you bake with it the next day. Where does it sit, room temp or fridge?
On a baking week, my starter is kept at room temperature!
Another thing to note is I use filtered water from my refrigerator and it is usually a bit cold. Also, my starter is made with 100% white bread flour.
Thanks!
Looks like enough info to give our starter whisperer Phaz enough to go on.
I await his words of wisdom.
Looking above, i did comment earlier (I'm in a lot of forums covering a lot of things, gets hard to keep track sometimes!). What was the result of the change in method? I made that recommendation for a reason which had nothing to do with starter strength/maintenance, whatever (which means i don't see any big issues right off and that's a good thing!). Things are fermenting/rising - here and there - more here, less there, and/or vice versa, however ya want to look at it.
The method of incorporating the starter can lead to high/low spots so to speak ie Some areas have more starter than others. Stretch and fold as described by most won't do much to evenly distributed things (the exception is constant sfs for something like 5-10 minutes (that was called kneading back in the day).
A few things could cause what you're seeing. Unfortunately getting bombarded with all of them at once won't help you, or your bread.
So, pick a suggestion, try it and see what happens. Whatever comes about will be edible at the very least. And you just may learn something! That alone makes it worth it. Enjoy!
I am planning to make another loaf with your recommendation next week! I will definitely knead the starter in better and try to tackle my bread one variable at a time. Thanks for the feedback!
That's a good plan. Enjoy?