Salzburger Grain Mill Max 2020 - Just got it (USA user)
I figured I would try to contribute somewhat to this great website....
The below will read like a diary entry so apologies if that is not the norm around here. I noticed very little information on Salzburger mills and thought I would get something going to help out folks interested in their product.
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Just bought a Grain Mill Max from Salzburger Mills. I even took it to the next level and got the "no plastics" option (link below). This model has the natural granite stones and beechwood body. I figured I would share my ordering experience for those of you wondering what it is like since the company is in Austria. I'll even describe the first use experience.
https://natural-grainmills.com/shop/salzburger-grain-mill-max-containing-no-plastics/
Ordering:
I ordered direct from their website which has plenty of English to follow along in the process. I used the Paypal option which did a great job converting into US Dollars. Since this was a European company my credit card denied the charge initially and I had to approve it. I then tried again and it worked. Because of this little hiccup the website didn't track my charge and the Salzburger customer service team emailed me letting me know they don't see the charge. I sent them the credit card authorization details and it helped them link it all together.
Salzburger emailed me a day later and recommended I use a more premium shipping method to help expedite and limit the rolling and tumbling the mill will experience on a ship borne journey. I accepted it for a slightly nominal extra charge. Not sure if this is a common situation.
Shipping and Customs:
I received a tracking number a few days after ordering. This is all via email and I was in contact with customer service team on the process. Salzburger used TNT which is a FedEx company. After two days I received a call from Fedex that customs required "commercial paperwork". Salzburger probably didn't know that packages going into the USA requires English paperwork to be attached.I called FedEx and explained the situation and sent them my e-receipt. Luckily the item cost was just under the dollar threshold and they released it.
I received the mill the next day. FedEx had it in a plastic bag and it was wet. I opened the bag and it smelled like fish juice. I assume the customs area is full of fresh seafood and whatnot. I opened the box and thank goodness the mill was in perfect condition and not wet. The Salzburger packers did a great job and ensured an air gap around the mill existed. The box contained the mill, instructions in English and a screwdriver to ensure you have a tool to option the cover for cleaning.
First use:
After inspection I threw some Einkorn berries in it and tried a fairly aggressive fine setting. I backed off slightly just when I heard the stones touching. The flour came out very fine and looked really good. Being this is my first electric mill I was a little taken aback by a slight smokey smell. I assume the process of grinding wheat on fine can have a friction level that would cause this. The flour was also warm but not what I would call hot. (I would love some comments on this observation to confirm it is not a big deal).
I then threw in some rice on the same setting to see how that goes and the smokey smell did not happen and the flour was fine. Seemed successful. I have not baked yet using the flour and will update on the results.
Conclusion:
I think the mill is built very well and was worth the trouble. Not the cheapest option but it should last a very long time. I semi-equate it to a Vitamix in robustness. The motor inside feels hefty like a Vitamix. I'll try to answer questions if anyone has any.
Thanks for posting, it is always great to get feedback on different mills. Hope you are loving the taste of the bread.
Thank you for taking the time to write up a review for this lessor known grain mill.
I recently bought my niece a beginning grain mill and will keep this mill in mind as she gets more experienced in case she needs an upgrade. Please let us know how durable the mill is and if you need technical support, how responsive/helpful the manufacturer is. I always worry about support when taking the risk to purchase high cost items like this overseas.
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Thanks for posting this, it is hard to find many reviews on the Salzburger mills. Now that you have had it a little longer are you still happy with the results? Any concerns? How does the fineness of the flour compare to a commercial product?
Thank you for posting this review.
I am glad your purchase of a Salzburger grain mill went a lot smoother than mine.
I ordered a MT12 directly from Salzburger at the beginning of August. Paid by paypal.
The next day I was informed by Salzburger that the shipping option that I paid for (something like 108 euros) was not available due to Covid. My only other option was express shipping or wait until the surface service was available again.
A couple of weeks Salzburger email me saying they found a shipping option for around 200 euros. I decided to go with this option instead of wait, so I paid the shipping difference.
A few days later a TNT tracking number was provided. When I tracked the package it showed that the package was being "collected". I tried to contact TNT and they told me the tracking number was not for a package coming to USA.
Salzburger was of not help. They supposedly contacted TNT Austria to get a working tracking number. The right tracking number never came. I waited and waited and waited.
After 5 weeks I asked Salzburger to refund my money. They told me to request the refund through Paypal. I did and paypal refunded my original payment and the shipping difference I paid.
The mills seem nice and well built but they are not worth the headache of dealing with the company and the shipping service.
I did not mean to highjack your thread.
Good luck with the mill
Fernando
Thanks for sharing Fernado. It’s important for all to know how the process may turn out.
I bought a Salzburger MH8 in 2017 and their MT12 in 2019. Along the way I've had a fair bit of email communication with them. The MH8 is the larger of their two hand operated querns, It takes a fair bit of time to produce half a kilo of flour with it, though no longer than it did with my earlier Country Living grain mill. The time and effort required for hand milling, notwithstanding, proth5's long positive experience with her Diamant mill, led me to get the mid-range MT12 electric mill.
The slow but sure hand mill has large stones, about 8 in. across, and produces lovely, fluffy flour. It's tricky, for me anyway, working out how much is too much grain to put in the funnel at a time. It varies with the type of grain, too. Still, it's pretty cool to be milling with a quern as thousands of my European ancestors did over scores of generations. A little of that goes a long way, though.
The MT12 is a power tool. The thing is fast and strong, but it's also loud. Lately I've taking to putting a board on a couple of potholders to absorb some of the resonance. I don't live alone and the noise is disturbing to my primary housemate.
Lately, though, I've become concerned about the heat of the mill product. If 110 F is the temperature above which flour is damaged then I don't want to use a fine setting. I''m now milling flour at a moderately coarse setting, putting it through a 40-mesh sieve, remilling the bran first at the same coarse setting and then milling again what part of the bran fails to pass through my sieve. In the end I have pretty fine wholegrain flour or if I put aside what's in the sieve after the last remilling I've got 90% extraction flour. Following this procedure, the mill product stays well below dangerous temperatures. It's a bit fussy, but I'm liking the bread that results.
I don't know what to say about the Salzburger mills' natural stone burrs vs. the Mockmill's corundum, or either of those compared to the stainless steel burrs of the Country Living mill.
One problem developed with the electric mill. After some use the thing wouldn't turn on. Eventually, with the help of my son's good friend, and an industrial arts teacher, I learned that flour dust had gotten into the on-off switch. He blew it out with compressed air. Since then the problem has recurred twice. Both times I solved it with the vacuum cleaner. A better protected switch would be good. If the vacuum cleaner fix fails I'll get my electrician on the case.
Tony, I am not sure about the temp issue. I have read a number of sources that use a variety of temps , some say the damage is when it goes about 130 F, and some say putting the berries in a refrigerator before milling helps lower the temp. The problem I have with most of what I have read is that for most mills, there is no way to know the temperature at which the berries are being milled - because they are between the stones, the only temp we can measure is when the berries have left the mill. Some mills use air to force out the berries, and that air would cool them, others just use gravity, so when the berries are exposed to the air as they fall, they will also cool somewhat, though not as much as the ones blown out by air. At this point, unless a mill gets the berries extremely hot, I try not to worry about it, and assume it is still better for me than commercially sold wheat.
I take your point about the critical temperature and when the flour may achieve it. It would be good to know how different commercial mills do their work or to see lab results about their flours. Still, it's a good bet you're right about the overall goodness of home milled flour. What I have to do more often, now that I'm milling every other day or so, is to vacuum surfaces in our living space (kitchen is part of one large room where we cook, dine, read, watch video, etc.). Milling and bolting produce plenty flour dust. With luck, not so much as to cause respiratory damage, though.
I am curious about your experience with the MH8. How does the quality and fineness of the grind compare with the MT12? How much manual effort and time does it take to grind a half kilo (knowing it may depend on the berries)? I am considering a Salzburger mill (this would be my first mill) and contemplating the MH8, MT5, or MAX Special (would like to get the Amadea, but "not available in the USA" is a problem). A manual mill sounds nice, but for a similar cost wondering if electric could be a better approach. Expected use up to ~half kilo, ~2-3 times/week. Any thoughts are welcome!
Since my original post I've done about 15 grind sessions using only Einkorn berries and occasionally rice.. All the berries and rice have been "room temperature" meaning I don't freeze or cool the items first. I typically grind about 700 grams of berries at a time and sift down to 630 grams using a medium filter strainer. The results are great. The flour does get warm but not hot on the exit but cools quickly when I sift immediately.
I did perform some extreme fine grinds at first and the natural granite pulverized the bran quite well. I would say too well for my use as I don't need those little sharp bran flakes ruining my already weak einkorn gluten. I tend to opt for a just slighter finer setting from the middle marker on the dial. My goal is to have the bran break into mostly bigger pieces but the rest of the berry is powdered. Makes sifting easier and the bran content is perfect for my loafs.
I don't experiment much so all my baking is pretty much sourdough einkorn. I can't comment on other wheat varieties, hard kernels (like corn) or beans. I grind rice for cleaning the unit and then I use the rice powder as a decorative contrast topper before scoring.
Hi, LotteS. I can't comment on the smaller powered mills, but I can say something about the two I have (in the subject line). This hand mill is heavy and takes up a good deal of space. For a year or two I had it mounted on the end of a kitchen counter (a peninsula, not an island). We have enough space for this, but the thing is large and homely to stand in the middle of the room like that. Recently I unbolted it from the counter top and set it up as it was designed, to clamp on the corner of a table or counter. Our counters don't have enough lip to clamp to, but I realized that my Breadtopia kneading board was heavy enough to serve as a platform for the thing.
I can mount it and unmount it fairly quickly. When I'm not using it I carry it in a large corrugated paper carton to my study. This makes a bit of physical exercise every day or two beyond that required to mill flour with it. To produce a half kilo of flour with my MH8 takes as much as two hours. Mind you, our kitchen area is part of a "great room" measuring 7.7 meters by 10.7 meters approximately. I'm surrounded by distractions: music or news on the radio, things to see out the many windows (the room is on the second floor, North American style, first floor in Europe, and we are surrounded by forest). The telephone may ring. I may decide to check my e-mail or Facebook feed, etc. If you really applied yourself you might mill 500 g of flour in an hour. One thing that keeps the process less than swift is that you can't put much grain in the funnel at a time. Every couple of minutes I have to reach over and add another little batch of berries. The quern is not that hard to turn when it's adjusted properly and it makes quite fine flour. Sometimes I separate the semolina and grits from the really fine flour and put them through the mill again. It depends on my purpose.
Mostly, I use the hand mill to make small amounts of flour. Usually it's just 20, 30, or 50 g of whole wheat for my sourdough culture. If I need 100 g of rye flour and 200 g of whole wheat for a bread using mostly white flour I may mill the whole grain with the hand mill. I'm old and need the exercise. Generally, larger amounts get milled on the MT12. A half kilo of flour comes out of the power mill in minutes, not half hours or hours.
I may have already said in an earlier comment, the power mill is *loud*. Because I share the space with other people, I try to do my milling when they are downstairs or out of the house. Home milling involves social considerations not engaged wen you bring home a bag of flour from the store or have it delivered to your doorstep. The hand mill, because it is effectively clamped onto the kitchen counter, resonates through the floor and is quite audible in the rooms below. It's differently loud than the power mill, which at least is quick.
The power mill certainly makes fine flour. As I explained earlier in this thread I have been concerned about how hot it makes the flour when I mill fine, so I usually make a coarser grind and resort to sifting and re-milling the bran when I want finer flour. I've been advised by the manufacturer and by a German baking book I have that one should bake with the coarsest flour that will produce the bread you want. German bread, or some of it, is robust.
These days I'm baking every other day, either a single loaf made from 500 g of flour or a bit more or twice that if I want to freeze a loaf or give one away. Most of the flour I bake with comes from my power mill. If the electric power goes down sometimes, where you live, and you could still get water and heat your oven, a hand mill is good to have. Otherwise, from a practical standpoint, a smaller but big enough power mill might be the way to go.
Thanks, route 66 and Tony, for the additional information, very helpful and much appreciated! A manual mill sounds nice, but I think electric is probably the way to go for me, at least to start. In case it is helpful for anyone else, I was curious if there were differences between the MAX, MT5, and Amadea mills other than appearance - per the manufacturer: "they all have the same motor, same stone, and grind in small fineness and quality".
Now I just need to decide which mill (MAX Special vs. MT5 vs. MT5 w/ SS thread)...and convince myself the price is worth it (compared to my current Kitchenaid mill attachment).
First, Happy New Year to everyone. Second, sorry if I seem to be hijacking the thread by posting at this late date.
You’re REALLY lucky if your country is one to which the MT5 ED ships. I think the larger MT12 is overkill for my needs but the MT5 ED, which isn’t, is “Unfortunately not available in USA and Canada!” I’m not interested in the MAX SPECIAL, so the question is whether or not to bite the bullet and buy the MT5.
https://natural-grainmills.com/shop/salzburger-grain-mill-5-oak-with-stainless-steel-thread/ (Bizarrely, the MT12 in oak is €5 cheaper than the MT5 ED--go figure.)
Hi Tony
(sorry for replying in the middle of the post, but I wasn't sure you still folowed this post. And I thought you maybe got a notification when someone is replying to a comment) . And I don't know how to sent a personal message.
Regarding the MH8. You mention that it takes about 1hour to get 500g of flour. Is that true? Because on the Salzburger website they specify the 70 à 90g per minute. So I thought 500g takes about 5 to 6 minutes?
Have you completely stopted using the MH8?
Hi, MathRye. I do still use the hand mill and quite like it. Mostly, though, I use it for amounts of flour at or under 300g. That's not a fixed limit, and sometimes I'll do 500g or so. It's a matter of how much time I have and how much I think I need the exercise.
Here's the thing. Other than the minimal info in the operating manual and two or three email exchanges with the manufacturer, I'm entirely self-taught. And something of a slow learner, I'm afraid. I can probably do that half-kilo and 30 or 40 minutes. Only recently have I found a combination of fineness setting and amount of grain in the funnel that will produce the kind of flour I am after and do so in a reasonable period of time. Getting really comfortable with the instrument after four years suggests I have not been paying attention to the right things.
I actually like the mill a lot. It's a version of one of the oldest types of mill, a quern. I use it to make the flour for feeding my sourdough culture, grinding a handful or two of grain at a time. Additionally, I often use it to mill 50 or 100g of flour for a preferment. I like the flour this mill makes better than that produced by the powered mill -- not a big difference, but that fact plus the exercise factor keeps me at it. If I could consistently produce even 50g per minute with the hand mill I might only seldom use the electric one.
And one additional thing I might tell you: I have set up a music stand beside the mill to hold something to read while I stand there turning the stone.
I just got my SB MH 4 in the mail. It's a bit tinier than expected but I do not plan to use it often. Perhaps for small amounts, like you. A preferment, sourdough starter... Will be helpful if Florida gets some hurricanes I assume. I just love handmade wooden products. It's all wood, a bit of metal, and some burrs. No real harm in having purchased one.
I opted for the no plastic electric SB mill as well, and their flaker is all wood and metal. Just great really.
Hey Tony and Kooky, thanks for the response.
@Kooky , is it a MT5 or MT12 or a Max?
Hello,
I went with the MT 12 without plastics. I occasionally wish I ordered the MT 18, not due to quantity or speed, but because the RPM is lower at 850RPM. But that device is 230V, I don't have an extra 230V outlet lying around the kitchen.
For grinding temperature, there are two red dots you line up for fine flour, you can go a bit past this go get finer flour if needed. I went as close as humanly possible before the burrs touched, I sat there step by step and then locked it in and the flour coming out was right at 120F for a large quantity. When I grind just past the 2 red dots meeting, it never seems to go above 100F, which is totally acceptable, in both temp and fineness. That's, as some have said on this site, grains sitting in a field on a summer day type of hot. When I measured the surface temp of my garden soil on a hot summer day in Florida, it was easily over 120F. So no problem there.
I honestly love the mill. I hate to be like this, but I feel it changed my life. I fell in love with general cooking a few years ago but this is something I could do every day all day long and never feel tired or bored of it. Fresh flour is finicky. I just picked up 5 lbs of organic gluten flour to see how that will help. I've also been sifting more, I have yet to scald the bran but I will try that next. Tangzhong technique is a must have, as is cooking at a higher temperature and setting it lower after 5 minutes.
I have always been a health-first cook. I am willing to sacrifice flavor for health. The taste of freshly milled flour is definitely above store bought flour, but it can be subtle, or it can be mind blowing. Really depends on the berries you use and what you've made. Regardless, it's naturally healthier... Unadulterated... For me, that's all I need.
Hey Kooky
Here in Europe they call it a "Flour-Cook-Piece" or in dutch (Belgium) "meelkookstuk" or "Kochstück" in German.
I never used it, but the principle is that you cook max 5% of the flourweight as a porridge, and than add it to your dough.
Yes it is a remarkable technique. And hence it is an illustration that there are a thousand ways to come to a delicious bread.
How suits your MH4? Is it as they say 80g/min coarse ( 40g/min) fine? It do is however strange there is only 2 years of warranty to this mill (according to the site). ( but still 12 years - 24 years on the stones)?
Greets MathRye
Thanks for that info. Yes, sounds very similar to Tangzhong, that has helped my fresh flour breads stay softer, as well as last longer at room temperature before going stale. When using fresh flour you must use all at your disposal!
It's built like a tank. I haven't ground any flour yet to season it as I've been quite busy with baking and brewing beer.
I can imagine the mill warranty is only 2 years because it's a mechanical object, made of wood. I imagine SB doesn't want to take on liabilities for people being foolish, breaking it, or accidents such as dropping it since it gets moved around. My electric SB mill hasn't moved from the day I placed it down.
Hi Mr Tony, I am interested to purchase salzburger Mt 12 vs komo xl.... Salzburger mt12 can grain brown rice with fine powder... If for home use which model is the best....
I can't really answer your question, May777, because I have no experience with the Komo product. I have milled brown rice in my MT12, but not much of it and not often. The mill has a strong motor and solid stone burrs. It probably will make as much brown rice flour as you wish. Whether it would do a better job than the Komo XL I can't say.
Hi, mr tony thank you for your response. Are you satisfied with your MT12? easy to clean?
able to grinding brown rice with fine powder? i will considered mt12 because of containing no plasitc.
thank you.
I applaud your aversion to plastic. The Salzburger MT12 will turn brown rice to a fine powder. Cleaning the mill is not difficult. Simply unscrew the top unit and use a stiff and then a fine brush on the working surfaces. Use a vacuum cleaner if you wish. The vac or a can of compressed air is useful to clear flour dust from the on/off switch. It has happened to me two or three times that the mill would not operate due to flour dust blocking the contacts.
There is one other thing to mind when using this device. It is necessary after each session of milling to use something like a chopstick or coffee stirrer to remove fine particles that collect at the point where the flour spout exits the milling chamber. Wait until the powered millstone stops spinning (it always seems like a long time!) and then poke the stick up the spout and wiggle it around to dislodge as much dust as possible. I suppose if I took the top off and cleaned the milling chamber more often this poking out would be less necessary, but I'm lazy that way.
Hello,
I have a question relating to Salzburger mills.
People are saying that the reason shop bought flour is no good is because it goes through roller mills which heats the flour up to the point where the oils are lost or something and that is why flour you buy in a shop can be stored in a bucket up to 6+ months without going rancid (no natural oils left in it to go off). While milling your own flour from grains is much better in a stone mill because you do not damage the vital nutrients by over-heating. The oils from the grains remain inside the flour and it is freshly made and thats why home made bread tends to have a sweetness that is lost in shop bought flour because the oils are still in the flour you mill yourself.
Heres my question though....
The Salzburger MT12 spins at 1200 rpm. Does this not over-heat the grain at this speed and end up being the same thing as bought flour that has been roller milled?
My other question is, does it really even make a difference considering the dough gets placed in a 200+ degrees C oven anyway, so the heat from the grinding process is irrelevant compare to the heat the breads going into anyway?
Are there any other mills on the market that use granite stone or is salzburger all there is?
Thanks, Random, for the question. I'm no expert. I can only tell you about my experience and reading. There is a temperature above which milled flour is damaged. I don't recall exactly, but I think it's something like 115F/46C. I've not investigated the matter extensively, but it's clear that with my MT8 mill the finer the grind, the warmer the flour coming out. I have settled on a coarse setting that makes flour approaching that temperature limit without going over. In some other discussion thread a commentator pointed out that by the time I get my thermometer into it, the flour has already cooled, so your conjecture may be on the mark. If I haven't damaged the flour even at that coarse setting, I'm probably home free re-milling the coarse meal to a finer grain size. The re-milled finer flour comes out of the mill with not much added temperature.
My guess, regarding your second question, is that if the flour is undamaged when you mix the dough, all the chemistry and fermentation that makes the final loaf what it is goes forward with the necessary ingredients. In the bake, further worthwhile chemistry happens. If the flour is damaged, then the resulting bread will not be all it could have been.
I don't know of other stone mills. There are a number of mills using ceramic or gritty composition material burrs on the market. How much difference stone vs. industrial material makes I do not know.
Sorry for late reply, I am very appreciated the information and advice you have shared. I will place order for Mt 12. Thank you so much.
Tony has done a great job carrying this thread! Thank you. I was the OP and don't visit often.
For the heat issue I grind 400-700 grams at a time and bake nearly immediately after. The flour is not that hot to the touch in my opinion. Between sifting and\or adding the water shortly after there is not much time for the flour to stay warm.
For cleaning I run a little bit of rice through medium\fine then open the stones to the maximum and knock on the side of the box lightly. The paddles on the inside will throw the debris out like a crazed merry-go-wheel. Occasionally I'll physically open the box and brush out the small bits but I find there isn't much in there when I do. Milage may vary of course.
I am looking to get a Mill in February; I am waiting - back ordered - on a replacement for food mixer (burnt out my previous one and its not repairable). So all the reviews and such are of great interest to me. Looking at videos, there was an American based bread conference a couple of years ago, and it is available on the net. About 10 or so speakers. They had the Mock chap there ( who started all but one of the popular powered home mills - Salzburger being the one he had nothing to do with). He said during a question and answer after his talk, that 84 degrees C was when the damage started to occur in flour, and that if it was short term, no damage was done. No about the plastic avoidance. I think there is lots of plastic in all those machines. I haven't seen a Salzburg stripped down though. But I suspect the motor is housed with plastic, and that plastic is surrounded by timber. Also, these machines have gears - they could not be direct drive IMO. And the gears may well be plastic. I suspect there is a shaft going up from the motor, with a gear on it, and there is a circular ring gear driven from that small gear on the end of the motor shaft. That ring gear would then turn the stone, somehow. Now, metal gears would be noisier than "plastic" gears. Also, good quality metal gears of often sintered gears. This is like a plastic forming process, where a mix of tiny metal particles are mixed with plastics and formed into a mould. Then the gears are heated up and the plastics dissipate, leaving an almost pure metal gear. This system uses less energy and is cheaper than the top class of metal gears, which cost a lot of money. And then, there are further plastics in the motor. There are plastics which cover the windings, the armature especially in a good motor. There are wires which are insulated in plastics. The plugs and the cables supplying electricity are insulated in plastic. The switches may be plastic too. Are the feet natural rubber? Or perhaps, an artificial rubber that will out last natural rubber 5 times over? Get real - plastics are doing a vital role in these so called wooden home mills. Now, the stones. I have little idea ... but I know my kitchen benches at home have around 11 square metres of stone - granite. And I went to a lot of trouble to ensure it wasn't too radioactive. But actually, all such granites have some degree of radioactivity. All natural granite is, to some degree. These stones are "self sharpening". So, they are getting blunt. So, we are consuming tiny particles of radioactive stuff. OK - not much! Would I buy a granite grinding stone? Sure I would! But IMO, the timber is an aesthetic thing. I bought Austrian timber floors (I live in Melbourne Australia). They cost three times as much as most such floors. But they were very well made, and they were healthier. I respect good timber, and good technology. It surprised me that there hasn't been a sound proofed mill. Several things could be done to lower their sound. And actually, I suspect the sound they make, is their most serious issue. Besides, maybe not making fine enough flour.
Unfortunately, I still have seen a comparison between all the brands and their models, that actually establishes the fineness of each machines capability. Which makes me wonder that a lot of the drivers for these machines, is marketing based.
Cheers all, and thanks a lot for the photos of the Salzburg machine! They were great. I wish you'd take it right apart, I'd love to see what the components are!
Sorry for the lack of paragraphs in my previous post. I was unable to edit it, I thought I could after posting!
So far, my research has been somewhat contradictory. As an example, I have read that the basalt stones have a hardness factor of 6, while diamonds have 10, and the composite ceramic / created gem (corundum which I think is an alloy oxidised in very high temperatures using aluminium and some other ingredients) - the most common material used for home mills - is 9. However, I have also read that the hardness of granite and "corundum" is much the same. And I have read that in home use, none are likely to wear out. I've also read that stones can go out of alignment, but that in today's machines that is highly unlikely.
Also, as far as grinding goes, I have had contradictory reports on the temperature of the flour that exits the grinder. A test for a Mockmill 600 watt versus a CoMo 360Watt - had the temperature of the flour lower in the Mockmill 600. Also both machines had identical grinding principles, stone materials and grooves, and diameter and also, the motor speed was almost similar. The conclusion was that more powerful motors run cooler. However, another site which has tested many machines, says that more powerful motors increase the heat of the flour.
On specifically the Salzburger, sometime after I think 2011, the company switched to to using just granite. This would have been a business choice - a strategic decision. Why? Well:
Firstly, their product becomes differentiated from other products.
Secondly, it fits their marketing message - that the mill is made from natural materials.
Thirdly, granite is a known material traditionally used.
Fourthly, the Salzburger mill is costly, and granite costs more, hence using granite in cheaper built machines would effect their price much more than doing so with a Salzburger mill.
Fifthly, perhaps the granite mills do a better job (evidently the granite structure is finer than that of ceramic mixed with corundum) and the smoother granite stone thereby produces a finer, less cut or worked flour.
Sixthly, I have read the Salzburger mills are hand built, each one being built and assembled, by a single person. This is a more costly process.
Seventhly the materials are more generous than most - for instance the exit chute is solid timber but it is also much thicker than others.
Finally (others do this too) the Salzburger has an "elastic" (not sure what material is used) support for the stationary upper stone, which quietens the mill and also acts to prevent a solid object from damaging the mill.
So you pay a lot for a Salzburger but its more of a work of art or artizanship than others, but also it's a developed product that does an excellent job. That it will last is a given, although many that made today will also last IMO. Worth the price? For those that are content to spend more, yes.
Sorry again, but I am used to be able to edit a post! When I said basalt, I mean't granite!!
My Salzburger MT 12 no plastics mill is currently being made... I completely forgot one thing and while they respond quickly, I figured I'd post it here too.
OP, does it use a standard 110Volt outlet? Or did you have to use a transformer of some sort?
My mill came with circuitry compatible with North American house current.
I should have said.
Is your mill with granite or corundum-ceramic?
All the Salzburger grain mills have granite burrs (stones). I have been told by an official at Mockmills that their Corundum burrs are harder than granite. He gave hardness numbers on a scale I don't know about. So far, after 4 or 5 years with my Salzburger hand mill the granite has been hard enough.
Any guesses as to what that hardness scale might be? The only two I’m familiar with are Mohs (for scratching) and Rockwell (for deformity). Neither one of the two rates toughness/durability.
I confirmed before it shipped... After a few weeks waiting for the non-plastics version and a month of shipping time, it has left the closest postal distribution center to me, therefore it should be delivered tomorrow... I cannot wait! I have already been baking quite a bit but this mill is going to be amazing.
Baked donuts, sourdough, buns, pretzels, everything freshly milled! That's what I did with grains when I brewed beer but that mill I have is far too coarse. The aroma and flavors were definitely enhanced when I purchased the grains unmilled.
I purchased bulk organic grains at amazing prices using a co-op drop off. They were out of hard red berries so I have to drive back one more time, about 30 minutes away, then I can restock every few months.
I am looking for a home mill machine. My top choices were Mockmill 200 and Komo Classic, after reading your post you mentioned the Salzburger and that mill sounds outstanding. Im thinking to buy the MT 5 Nut. Is that machine made with not plastics? How happy are you with the one you got?. Im only making sourdough bread, which berries do you use for that? and where do you buy them. I read that Azure is a good place to buy berries.
Thanks!
Hi
After years of searching re-searching I went for the a Salzburger and a diamant handmill.
My Salzburger MT12 has just arrived so I can't give you many experience on that.
But however, in my search I also had a lot of communication with the Salzburger Mill company. And they told me that nut is more sensitive than Oak And Beech. I assume this wood-type is more soft.
Komo and Mockmill uses korund-ceramic (Salzburger Granite). Korund has the advantage that it mills more easy when berries have a higher humidity due to storage.
Greets Math
I've had some very successful 100% freshly milled whole wheat loaves recently, with and without the addition of extra gluten flour.
In general:
1) Autolyse for 1 hour+ is a must
2) I find that 75%-85% hydration for commercial yeast works best
3) Use slightly less yeast than you normally would, but not something crazy like 1/8th the yeast, as I had been previously trying for a while.
4) Multiple shorter rises seem to work well. For example, first rise 30 minutes, knead again for a few minutes before second rise, knead slightly and then shape before final rise. This seems to help the weak/fresh gluten structures. I'm kind of curious what, say, kneading every 15 minutes for one hour might do, followed by a shaping and final rise.
I very commonly use Salzburg's coarse sieve to sift the gigantic pieces of bran. By weight it's just a few grams at most.
Looking for help from anyone who has these mills. I have the MAX and I just did my first batch of red wheat berries ~400 g at a time, on the finest setting I could get at room temp. The results were good, but the flour got hot. Started at around 85F and went up to 130F. Not ideal. Anyone else have this issue? Is it the type of stone? Kind of frustrating given the cost. Argh
TIA!
Hey Tia
This is normal and nothing to worry about. I know in the beginning when you start using the mill it makes you some moody. But in the end the flour is beautiful milled.
All motor powered mills for home usage gives warm flour due to the abrasion and milling action. The reason is simple because the stone is small and the motor needs to mill the whole kernel on such a small stone. On big windmills the stone is far far far bigger.
That flour doesn't warm up that much but it is exposed longer to air (oxidation) than when you mill at home. So the advantage of milling yourself is you can use it instantly.
Milling and instantly use it for you bread or cake, ... is best.
Besides, a lot of recipes mention "luke-warm-water". Just use cold tap-water and the average will be good.
MathRye
FWIW I seem to recall reading that Anson Mills grinds their grain frozen.
Opinions differ on whether flour temperature from a motorized mill is a concern. One thing I've figured out when using my electric mill is that if I put the berries in a few at a time (a handful +/-) the flour comes out cooler than if I pour 300-400 g. in all at once. Also, I've read one blog post describing how mill output can be cooled more quickly by stirring it as it collects in the container.
I'm not going to be too fussy. I bit the bullet and ordered an MT 12; I should have it sometime next week but if not, that's okay. I still think it'll be overkill for my needs (single person) but that's what I can get in the U.S. and by G-d, I went for it! I figure that if my friends need flour, especially white hard wheat, I can certainly oblige them, so that justifies a larger mill. :)
Hey Karen
Its a very good mill. And it is sure is not to big or an overkill. Even for making a bread for one person. I use it very much.
One problem I sometimes have is rye. It is rapidly spread out on the stone like butter rather then being milled. Therefor I never mill more than 250g rye at a time and then I mill wheat or spelt. That cleans my stones from the rye.
However if the rye is very dry you will not have that issue.
Enjoy it!
Best regards
MathRye
Thank you for responding and thank for the heads-up!
It so happens that rye is the one grain I don't plan to mill myself; I only use a little rye flour for sourdough starter for one bread recipe, so I just buy rye flour and store it in the freezer. I wonder if triticale would have a similar problem? I don't use it but I might try it in the future.
Really looking forward to my new mill!
HI Karen!
It's been nearly a year since you got your new Salzberger mill, yes? Can you give us an update on how well you like it? Does it have the granite stone burrs and have you had any issues of grit in your freshly milled flour? Thanks so much if you are able to post an update!
I don't know why, after signing in (and jumping through an unseemly number of reCaptcha hoops), I can't see any of the comments that were previously posted, including Kitty's, which is the one to which I'm responding.
I haven't used my MT 12 yet because I've been preoccupied with moving, HOWEVER, I HAVE set it up in its own special place. I also treated it with some of the wood butter that I bought at the same time I bought the mill. I PROMISE that I'll start playing with it after Passover.
Anyone else have any updates on their Salzburger mills?
NOW I see them (after posting).
I use the Mill daily and mill about a 3kg of flour every week. I love it because it does what it needs to be doing: milling.
I buy my grain with a local farmer, and the grain is always contaminated with little stones from harvest. But that is no problem for the granite stones. The stones are so strong that it mills them togheter with the grain. It insures some additional minerals in the flour :-)
Karen, if you click on "add a new comment", you will see only the original post. If you click "reply" to a particular post, you will see only that one. As you discovered, they all return after you post.
Trust me, I lost everything only after clicking "Reply." Once I went through yet ANOTHER round of reCaptchas after posting the reply, everything magically reappeared. Oh, well. I finally got here.
On any site, not only TFL, before I send off a post I always select its text and copy it to the clipboard. If anything goes wrong, I won't have to rewrite the whole thing.
It's saved me more than once.
TomP
The browser extension "Form history control" can be very useful in this situation.
Lance
tpassin, thanks for such a useful idea. It's a good way to save on re-typing!
Thanks, Karen for your reply. Will look forward to your future review. Burr grinding is new to me as I've always used an impact mill. I appreciate everyone's input on this great site!
Will do, KittyJ. May I ask which impact mill you have? It's my understanding that they're not very versatile but that they make nice, very fine, flour.
Want to get into sourdough baking on a regular basis. Seriously considering a Salzburg mill - probably MT-5 ED. I would be grinding mostly rye and rice, as well as cracking oats for muesli. I was worried to see MattRye's comment:
"One problem I sometimes have is rye. It is rapidly spread out on the stone like butter rather then being milled. Therefor I never mill more than 250g rye at a time and then I mill wheat or spelt. That cleans my stones from the rye."
I would want to mill at least 700g of rye at a time. Can anyone else share their experiences of milling rye with a Salzburg? Do the corundum / aluminium oxide stones do rye better?
I have milled rye berries on both a Salzburger (granite burrs) and a Mockmill (corundum burrs). The result was the same, no glazing of the burrs. What did happen with the Salzburger mill was that flour could build up in the exit spout, causing flour to back up in the chamber and glaze the burrs. I learned to poke a stick up he spout after each milling session to forestall blockage. When this blockage did happen, it was not a matter of rye vs. another grain.