refrigeration effect on dough strength?
I've been enjoying this site as a super helpful resource for the past months as I've been trying to improve my technique, and recently started to get quite pleased with reasonably consistent results. My goal is always a tasty sourdough bread French style, my basic method is about 50/50 all-purpose and wholewheat, with some rye instead of wholewheat sometimes (5 to 10%) and I always aim for 70% saturation. I usually start with 200g flour & 160g water with a spoonful from my starter on the morning or early afternoon of day 1, then next morning autolyse 500g flour with remaining water (to achieve 70% hydration) and mix in the 360g of starter plus salt. After initial kneading I occasionally stretch & fold and in the evening divide the dough in 2, shaping one half into a ball, proofing in a basket and baking in a dutch oven. This bread usually comes out very satisfactory in terms of shape (dough strength) and crumb.
But now for my question: I pop the second half back in the bowl, and refrigerate it, with the goal of shaping proofing and baking it 24 hours later. I find the taste of this second loaf is better than the first, more sour with more interesting taste. However, I usually don't get the same tension at the shaping phase and a less shapely bread with slightly less open crumb. I've noticed that while in the fridge, if it's come up and I do a stretch&fold (usually after 8 or 12 hours), the dough strongly deflates. The dough also feels "rougher" than pre-refrigeration, as if it's got less strength to hold air. I do allow it to warm fully to room temperature before shaping, but find that I'm less successful in building up tension.
Any ideas on what might be causing this "texture-change" to the dough? Should I not touch the dough while in the fridge? (i.e. no stretch&fold?) Is there something else I should be doing or not doing?
Below is my result from this Monday, which was the non-refrigerated version. It's 24-hour later brother was much flatter, though tastier!
360g starter to 500g flour is an awful lot of preferment.
You make up the dough in the morning and then bake one half in the evening and put the other half in the fridge. If I understand you correctly.
That is an awful long time for a lot of starter.
Your timings need a bit of a rethink. Either that or your starter ratio to fit your timings.
Thanks Lechem. Ideally I'd keep the timings (early morning and evening activity, during the day whoever happens to be home can do the stretch & fold), so what would a more reasonable ratio be for the preferment?
that only works for early morning or evening activity then I'd drop the amount od starter to around 10%.
So let me try and sort this out....
Your recipe is: 200g flour + 160g water + 1 spoonful starter
Then 500g flour + 330g water + 360 starter (from above)
You like 10% whole rye : 40% whole wheat : 50% AP
This gives a 1190g loaf with, I'm assuming, 2% salt. That's about right. So let's try and re-arrange this to end up with the same specs but different ratio of starter...
Flour 100%
Water 70%
Salt 2%
Starter 10% (at 80% hydration in keeping with your starter build)
Flour : 650g (325 AP, 260 whole-wheat, 65g whole rye)
Water : 451g water
Salt : 13g
Starter 65g (36g flour + 29g water)
Just 10g short but very close!
I think I've got your flour ratio correct. Change the AP. WW and Rye flours how you see fit.
Method will be to build the starter the night before.
Make up the dough in the morning and bulk ferment through the day.
Split into 2 and bake one in the evening. Shape one and place in the fridge overnight to be baked in the morning.
Brilliant, thank you! I will definitely try this on my next few efforts. One small question: in building the starter the night before, do I use same ratio as well, i.e. taking 10% of 65g from my perpetual starter and add that to the 36g of flour and 29g of water?
The correct amount of starter at the correct hydration and it's mature by the morning. You're pretty much free to build how you like. I don't know how you keep and manage your starter. You build the right amount and it all goes into the bread (keeping some mother starter behind)? Or do you use all your starter in builds and then keep some behind? I'm not sure what hydration your mother starter is. In interest of keeping it like your recipe I'd venture...
1 tsp starter + 29g water + 36g flour and then use 65g for the recipe.
But feel free to build how you like just making sure it's enough and ready to go by morning.
OK, many thanks - will do.
I usually keep the mother starter in the fridge, refreshing it at the same interval that I'm baking (i.e. every 2 or 3 days). Mother starter also has a hydration of 80% because I typically exchange a Tsp of mother starter for a Tsp of preferment mix. I can see from your advice that I've been using huge quantities compared to what's necessary.
Let us know how it turns out and we can tweak if necessary.
I think in grams instead of volume. But a tsp of your starter should inoculate your preferment build, which isn't too much, overnight just fine. You know your starter better than me (all starters will be different) so for the preferment build feel free to build as necessary.
But your preferment in the dough is very high for the amount of time you leave it to ferment. I'd be able to make a bread in just a few hours with that ratio.
Looking forward to results.
Thanks for being so helpful.
I typically use 8-10% starter to total formula flour for a refrigerated retard of that length of time..
Bravo Lechem for really constructive guidance, and thank you Jonasr for posing the question. I'm sure we've all learned from this. Can't wait to see the next bakes.
I try my best and love seeing people succeed.
Hope I helped.
Dear Lechem and others,
Sorry for going all silent through December, busy times. Did get to bake now and then, but not to spend time on my PC researching or writing about it.
Basically: following your advice helped me improve. So thanks again! I do have a new question, caused by my experiences in December:
Sometimes you plan to do a bread and fix a timeline, only to find that something unrelated happens that interferes with your timeline. Solution: refrigerate to retard the fermentation. Now: is there a general rule of thumb how much refrigeration time you can substitute for an hour of room temperature fermentation?
Would the same rule of thumb apply to the bulk ferment phase and the proofing phase?
Best, Jonas