how to get bloom without baking in a DO? help needed
hey everyone, I have a question i really need to get answered.
while i get good results when baking in a dutch oven, i do want to bake bigger breads like a miche, and not just round boules. another problem i have with the dutch oven is the lose of gas when putting it in (its not a combo cooker) and the hardships of scoring it.
so i would really like to be able to get good baking results without it, and i do when it comes to small things ciabattas and stirattos. but when i bake bigger loafs, while oven spring is good i cant get the slashes to open and bloom and have an ear like in the dutch oven. all you home bakers must have seen it at some point, how the the slash just fills back up smoothly, and dosent open much. just looks more shiny than the rest of the surface of the crust but thats about it.
so you understand the baking condition's, when i bake without a dutch oven i put a baking steel in the middle of my electric oven, a tray with pebbles on the bottom, and heat it to 260 Celsius. i then put the loaf on the baking steel and pour room temp water on the blazing hot rocks for steam (i have seen some use ice, is it better?). i reduce the heat to about 230 Celsius and bake until it is done.
thanks you in advance,
etamar
and proof faster if already warm so with that in mind, try proofing them shorter getting them into the oven sooner.
Hot water on hot rocks gives more steam.
Remember, steam is actually invisible, it's the cooling steam that we can see as it turns into fine water droplets. That's why when the oven door closes and one no longer sees steam, keep the door shut. Practice Caution and stand back when opening the oven door or to release steam.
thanks for the advice,for the record, i had this problem also with small and medium loafs, (small= a dough of 1 kilo of flour divided by 4, medium= same dough divided to two loafs like in FWSY).
because of that i think size isnt the biggest factor here. as for overproofing, ive had the problem with loaves that were definitely not over proofed, so i am led to think it relates more to the baking method.
i will try hot water next time like you suggested.
etamar
into the DO is one sign of over proofing or the dough was proofing too long without a reshape while the dough is fermenting. Perhaps the dough needs some tightening up before the final proof.
when i said loss of gas i didnt say it deflates, i mean its a less gentle way if handling the dough compared to that of transfering it to the baking stone on a pizza peel. its not that the dough collapses, its just that im sure some bubbles get squished more than is desirable or necessary (using the dutch oven as the dome to the baking steel can solve that now that of think of it) . but like i said, while the dutch oven is indeed good, sometimes i want bigger loafs, or oblong loafs, or just to bake more than one loaf at a time. and for these reasons i want to get good results without it, and having attempted it multiple times with multiple doughs of different kinds and of different stages of proofing, i can say that at least in my case its the baking method that plays the bigger role.
etamar
For example, if you have a decent-sized rectangular or oval roasting pan, you can use that for batards and for larger boules than your DO. If you don't have anything suitable to try, I haven't tried them but I seem to recall some people saying they have used a disposable foil roaster.
i agree with you in the roasting pan method, saw it for the first time in the northwest sourdough bread videos on youtube and i think it should work, but sadly i dont have such pans that are deep enough to act as a dome.
etamar
I've used an old oval roasting pan so can vouch from experience that it does work. Depending on the shape and size of loaf, it's sometimes possible to fit a small steam source under it in addition to the dough. I've never done a side by side comparison to say if this makes a difference.
I didn't think of it when I posted, but for example, I have a large stainless mixing bowl that I haven't used in a very long time. Shaping something out of foil might work too.
the loaves? Do you remove the steam tray at any point during the bake?
Tell us about your oven and set up.
when i put in the loaf i pour about half a cup to a cup of water on the blazing hot rocks and close the door. i do not take out the tray during the baking but the water is gone after about 10 minuets. do you think i need to pour more water at the start, or add more water after they are gone?or take the tray out at some point?
thanks for helping me figure this out,
etamar
Hi, etamar.
Photos of the loaves that are not blooming would help us diagnose your problem. The formula for the bread you are baking would also help. High and low hydration doughs cannot be treated the same.
In your first post, you say your cuts "fill back in" but the bloom that is there is shiny. If your crust is shiny, you have plenty steam. If you are not venting it after the crust starts to form, you may have too much steam.
If you are having your cut open up and start to form an ear which then collapses, your cut is too deep. If an ear never forms, you may be making your cut at too steep an angle.
Have you read my tutorial on scoring? That has information that might help solve your problem. Go to Scoring Bread: An updated tutorial
Keep us up to date on your progress.
David
i make high hydration doughs for my breads. while i dont have a picture of my own i searched the bread browser and found a loaf where the scoring after baking looks exactly like what i got:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/49083/overproof-poor-shaping-or-poor-cutting
i get this result regardless of the recipe i use when baking without a dutch oven, but i like and use some of the recipes from FWSY.
as for scoring, when baking in the dutch oven they bloom nicely and get nice ears, so while im sure it could be better, when baked in a dutch oven they bloom nicely like my breads that are shown in my first post here:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/49142/hello-everyone
etamar
Scoring boules and scoring bâtards require different techniques, at least traditionally. Please look at the tutorial linked above.
And there are some special considerations for high-hydration doughs. This might help: Scoring Bread made with high-hydration dough
Happy baking!
David
you are correct, but if it was only scoring technique then bouls baked without a dutch oven should come out fine. however, i have also baked boules without a dutch oven and the scoring bloomed poorly just like the batards. therfore i think there is a bigger reason than the scoring technique.
etamar