Not much oven rise
Hi everyone,
New here and new to breadmaking which my wife and I began to do in the sleepless days following the birth of our son 6 weeks ago! I tried to bake Ken Forkish's overnight country blonde using my levain and got mixed results.
First the dough was quite wet and difficult to handle. I ended up having to add quite a bit more flour during the shaping stage just to be able to form it for proofing.
I also noticed the fermentation might have happened on overdrive. We live in a tropical climate and I ferment the doughs at room temperature which might be 24 or 25c. I fermented this dough overnight and it at least tripled in size. Proofing also may have been too long.
When I tried to score it (I'm not sure I like Forkish's technique of using the folds as scores) the dough deflated significantly, and didn't really spring back in the oven.
The taste is pretty good but a little denser than I would like, the crust is a bit too thick and just a little disappointing overall.
Anyone have any idea what might have gone wrong with this? I find it really difficult to work with wet dough (this was hydrated at 78%), and I'm guessing that is why in part it ended up being a bit flat?Perhaps because we live in a tropical humid environment I should hold back a bit of water when I mix the dough? And maybe cut down fermentation by 25% or something?
Any advice would be welcome. I am really enjoying breadmaking and am keen to learn whatever I can!
I believe you need to practice the technique of handling high hydration dough. I lightly dust my hands and the dough with flour when I work it and I try not to tear the dough as I knead it. I believe your proofing times are a long, overnight at 25°C and the dough tripled in size. Doubling is enough and at 25°C two hours should do it, especially if this is the final rise.
After shaping the dough, turn it seam side down, cover, let it rise until just doubled, slash it on the smooth side (not on the seam side), mist it lightly with a spray of water, and then bake.
I hope this helps.
Ford
Thanks, Ford. I appreciate the advice. I will allow myself some practice with high hydration doughs. I tried to lightly flour but it just kept sticking to my hands and the counter.
You've given me lots to experiment with so thank you for sharing your tips!
Why not start with a lot less hydration - maybe 66%? Make a few loaves like that and you'll have much better results starting out. You can add more or less starter depending on how long you will prove it.
For example I am refreshing my starter now. I will use it when my day dictates. I am not fussed about the perfect moment for my starter. As long as it's active I will use it.
A example of a simple formula would be
flour @ 100%. 600 grams
water @ 66%. 396 grams
starter @ 15%. 90 grams
salt @ 2%. 12 grams
Depening on how soft I want the crumb, I might add 2% oil of some kind. Typically the flour will be a blend of all purpose, whole wheat and rye - similar to Forkish's percentages. That mix at 20% starter will spend 8-10 hours in the refrigerator for the final prove and then I bake straight from the fridge in a pre-heated Dutch Oven.
Whille I have the utmost respect for Ken Forkish I still could not make a loaf following his method precisely. My kitchen is not his kitchen; my flour is not his flour; my experience in handling dough is definitely not equal to his. I do use his one bowl method and his pincer method and fold in the bowl. But I adapted for my resources and I get great results. I bake according to his instruction.
So use Forkish's expertise but adapt for your conditions and ability.
Good ideas Jane Dough (and great username). Many thanks. I will give those ideas a try and see how it works!
Have you looked at videos on youtube of people handling the wet dough with a bench scraper? That is the only way I can do anything with a 70% hydration dough.
I haven't but will do. Good idea, thanks!
Wow, starting with a Ken Forkish dough is pretty tough! I'd recommend (as others have) that you learn to work with lower hydration doughs first. I also suspect that you might be getting closer to 80% hydration if you are in a very humid environment, so that makes it even softer and stickier! I use some of his recipes and some of the Tartine recipes, and have adjusted the hydration downwards a bit; makes it much easier to work with!
Are you baking in Dutch ovens or pots? If so, it's far easier to bake seam side up and just let the loaf burst at the seams as Forkish recommends. If you slash these doughs you are much more likely to deflate them (as you found). Poke the dough during both the bulk ferment and the final proof - if the poke hole stays pretty much indented during the bulk ferment, it's probably ready to shape, and if it fills in slowly during the final proof, it's ready to bake!
I guess I learned that the hard way! Didn't realise these doughs were known to be difficult. Woops!
I am baking in a good quality tagine which I think acts as a pretty decent Dutch oven. I've had really good results with the Chad Robertson tartine recipe found here but have been trying to branch out: http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016277-tartines.
Thanks for the proofing tips. Will give those a try.
This is just me but tend to think of triple size as the max rise. So for bulk if I get to 2.5 times rise it means its ready to shape and final allowing the last last .5 of the rise to happen at final proof. That way you wont overproof and have to deal with lack of oven spring. I just did a bake last night where I waited too long and ended up with disappointing spring in the oven. Pretty much tossed the loaves. This morning I had a cold ferment ready which was close to triple in size and sprung up nicely. I usually form baguettes and feel that if they begin to curve up at the tips about 10 minutes in that things have progressed well. The main point is that yes its probably over proofed ;)