Sourdough loaf not rising, Also Gummy, wet texture
Hi everyone!
I made my own sourdough starter this summer-- It was fully active starting in August. Since then, I keep it in the fridge, and 2-3 days before baking I take it out and feed it twice before using it. In this time, it gets bubbly and smells delicious. Sometimes it doubles and other times it doesn't double, but it does grow.
I have made a few loaves of sourdough bread so far, and none of them have turned out the way I want them.
At first, I was using this recipe:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Sourdough-Bread/?ALLSTEPS
While the flavor has come out very nicely (just thinking about me is making me hungry :) ), the texture has always been weird no matter what I tried. I tried pre-heating and not preheating the dutch oven, I've tried leaving the lid on for longer. Every time I make it, the texture feels wet and gummy. It doesn't feel dry enough, but I bake it to a point where the crust starts to burn.
I've also tried this recipe a couple of times now:
http://sourdough.com/recipes/pane-francese
The first time, it came out pretty good. It took a LOT longer to bake than just 30 minutes. It took more like an hour and a half. The crust was very thick because I cooked the bread for so long, but it had a nice flavor.
The second time, I used all bread flour instead of whole wheat flour. Once again, it took a very long time to cook, and the texture came out gummy again.
I've made a couple of other recipes with whole wheat flour, and the texture doesn't turn out gummy and wet.
I am now trying out this recipe:
http://www.theclevercarrot.com/2014/01/sourdough-bread-a-beginners-guide/
Now, however, the bread isn't rising at all. It's been about 9 hours, and it's *maybe* risen 1/4th of its original size. Also, it seemed like there was way too much flour in the recipe. There was about 150g left over of white bread flour that I could not incorporate into the dough.
So, back to the main questions:
1. Why does the texture of my loaves always come out gummy and wet when using all bread flour?
2. If my starter is not actually fully active, what do I need to do to make it fully active?
3. How do different types of flours (whole wheat, bread flour with 13% protein, rye, etc.) make a difference in the texture and in the process of making bread in general?
your oven is hot enough with a oven thermometer? Sounds like these very long baking times are an oven not heating properly or one of the elements is burned out.
Hi,
It could be the oven temperature, but I'm not sure. I've recently moved to a college apartment, and I had these problems both here and at home. I don't have issues when baking muffins, pies, or cookies. I have noticed, however, that the tops of both ovens get pretty hot while the oven is on; maybe the heat isn't staying inside the oven very well, or maybe that's normal.
1. Why does the texture of my loaves always come out gummy and wet when using all bread flour?
Probably because it wasn't baked completely. Check the interior temperature of the loaf -- it should be 195 to 205°F. Also, as dabrownman suggested, check your oven temperature.
2. If my starter is not actually fully active, what do I need to do to make it fully active?
Remove the starter from the refrigerator, if it is there. Do two refreshings. This is my schedule: for about 3 cups of starter (27 oz., 100% hydration) Take 3 oz. of starter add 3 oz. each of flour and chlorine free water, mix and let ferment for about 6+ hours. Then add 9 oz. each of flour and water, mix and allow to ferment overnight (8+ hours) . The starter should then be bubbly and ready to go.
3. How do different types of flours (whole wheat, bread flour with 13% protein, rye, etc.) make a difference in the texture and in the process of making bread in general?
Whole wheat flour contains bran that gives a coarseness to the bread crumb. This flour requires more liquid than bran-free flours.
Bread flour has more gluten than all-purpose flour and this better holds the carbon dioxide gas from the fermentation and this allows the dough to rise better. For a given amount of rising the bread flour has a tougher crumb than all-purpose flour.
Rye flour has almost no gluten and requires special techniques to make this bread,though you can use the normal technique if you are using only a small amount.
I hope this helps you.
Ford
Hi,
Thank you so much for the detailed response!
For the first question about the texture, you told me that I may need to bake the loaf longer, but how do I bake it longer if the crust is starting to burn? How do I prevent that from happening?
I will definitely try your method for reviving the starter and see if it makes a difference.
Thanks again for your help!
Also, *wet* could be the wrong word, but it definitely comes out feeling rubbery and gummy.
Mertme36, part of the issue is that you're trying to get answers to why 3 different recipes failed for you. Can I gently recommend that you stick to one recipe at a time to work thru it? It will also make it easier for us to give you guidance.
That said I have some suggestions:
As Ford said, wet & gummy means that you probably didn't bake it long enough. (There's a slight chance that it also means it didn't ferment long enough). Sourdough is ready when interior is at 205-210F, any less and it will be gummy (I disagree slightly with Ford here, I don't think most sourdoughs are fully baked at under 205F.) Get an instant read thermometer and take the internal temp. Also, let your bread rest at least 1 hour before eating; this is really important for sourdough. The temptation is to eat it hot from the oven but it will taste better if you let it rest, and some people get upset stomachs from this.
How sure are you that the dough was properly fermented, aka, that it rose enough at each stage? For the first (bulk) fermentation, the dough MUST DOUBLE IN SIZE no matter how long it takes. Watch the dough not the clock. This could take 1 hour, 4 hours or 12 hours, depending on so many factors. During the final rise after shaping (proof), the dough should also almost double. Learn to use the poke test to determine readiness (search the forums here for guidance on that).
Baking a soudough at 450F for 45min will lead to a crust that's likely be too dark/burnt, whether you're baking in a dutch oven or in an open pan. However, you should have no problem baking at 425F (or even 400F) for 45min without crust burning with the lean sourdough recipes you've been using.
Starter activity: this is hard to say, it depends on how liquid or firm your starter is. If you have a firm starter, then if it can double in volume in 4-6 hours, it's active. If it's a very liquid (pancake batter-like) starter, you have to go by feel; it won't necessarily visually double in volume. To make a firm starter, feed in a 1:2:3 ratio BY WEIGHT: 1 part leftover starter, 2 parts water, 3 parts flour. For example, 10g starter, 20g water, 30g flour.
Because you didn't share how you maintain your starter, my guess is the CleverCarrot recipe didn't work because the author doesn't describe how they maintain their starter, and it's possible your own starter isn't as liquid as the one the author uses...therefore less water in the recipe, therefore seems like too much flour.
Ford gave a good accurate overview of the effects of different flours in his comment above.
If crust burning but bread still mushy, you should lower the temp and/or shield the bread if you have electric burner. You can tent foil or put a sheet pan blocking radiant heat.
Hi everyone,
Thanks for all of your help! After reading your comments, I've decided to try to play around with the oven temperatures. I've been working with the recipe from the Clever Carrot blog, and the recipe said to bake at 400F, which is what I did, but the crust got way too thick and hard and nearly burnt, and the inside was still rubbery-feeling. I am not sure what the inside temperature of the loaf was because I did not have a thermometer.
I tried baking at 400 for 10 minutes then decreased the temperature to 375, and that seemed to give a thinner crust (still hard), and it made the inside texture a bit better. I bought a thermometer to measure the inner temperature of the loaf, and it was at about 205F.
This time, I decided to try baking at 375 initially for 10 minutes, then lowered the temperature to 350. The loaves took a lot longer to bake at the lower temperature, which led to a very thick and and hard crust. The inside texture was as rubbery as it had been when I baked at 400F. The inside temperature of one loaf was about 200, and the other one was at about 207.
So, overall, the texture is better at 400-375F, but it's still not great. What else can I do to change that? I can't seem to get the inside of the loaf warm enough without burning and ruining the crust, and making the temperature lower or higher won't seem to help.
Yesterday I baked some bread. It wasn't sourdough. I used yeast. Anyway, I didn't let the dough ferment enough. It was a stupid move on my part because I used a small amount of yeast. I should have let it fully ferment before shaping. What happened was that the loaves came out really heavy, moist, and dense with a hard thick crust, even after a long thorough bake and cooling. I was so mad at myself for being so hasty.
I decided to make another loaf. LOL This time, I allowed the dough to ferment longer. It rose to twice the volume, and I saw bubbles forming. After baking the second loaf, I felt the bread was lighter in weight. It was then cooled. The interior was dry and the crust was thin and crispy.
So moral of the story is to let your dough ferment well, like what cranbo said. If you pull the dough from the side of the bowl, you should be able to see bubbles forming during the bulk fermentation. I also think that maybe the dough should be placed in a warm area to rise.
There are some youtube videos about breadmaking that helped me. They're from Baking with Julia.
Baking with Julia, episode with Joe Ortiz for making sourdough breads:
part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEP3QW-V0sw
part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLo7XBQ-Fvs
Baking with Julia, episode with Steve Sullivan:
part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jcMinOE-WQ
part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHD1HRELI-k
You don't really have to follow their recipes. The methods and steps could be applied to other recipes.
Problem number one is that you have no idea what the temperature inside your oven is. All you know is what the (possibly inaccurate) dial says, not the actual temperature inside the oven cavity. If a recipe says to bake at 425F and your oven temp is only getting up to 375F then you have an issue.
Spend $10 and get a good oven thermometer. Here is the one I use and it is excellent:
http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-3506-Precision-Oven-Thermometer/dp/B000BQWMTK/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1416131737&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=taylor+tru+temp+...
Here is Danielle Forestier on Baking With Julia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGLDBZys8pw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKkG80YHutc
Hey guys, thanks for the video links. I'll be sure to watch them soon!
Unfortunately, I should not be spending money on oven thermometers right now. I will note that I have baked other things such as pies, other types of breads, cookies, and muffins, and there doesn't seem to be a problem with the way our oven bakes those, it's just with sourdough bread.
I'm pretty sure I've been letting it rise enough. I mark my bowls so I can see how much they have risen, and the dough doubled. When I take the dough out of the bowl for shaping, there are bubbles on the side that have formed, and once I've shaped the dough and let it proof for two hours, when I score the dough, I can see many bubbles throughout the dough, so I don't think rising is a problem.
Share some photos of the finished product, it will help diagnosis.